DNA from Mexico's 'Alien Corpses' is from Unknown Species, according to analysts

originally posted by: Rosby123
a reply to: Arbitrageur

You have spoken about the credibility of some of these people. It's an issue but not the one that concerns me at the moment or those asking if these skeletons are real. Character assassination is not something I will use to approach this story.

Nobody has assassinated Jaime Maussan's character more than Jaime Maussan, you realize this, don't you? He has been a professional charlatan for decades.

Have you ever heard this saying?

-Fool me once, shame on you
-Fool me twice, shame on me
-Fool me over and over for decades, I must be naive, credulous, gullible, and don't learn from my mistakes.

originally posted by: Rosby123
Which part is proven?
When you say it's proven that they either don't know what they're talking about or they're lying. You aren't sure yourself. I can't make up my mind and can't come to a conclusion, I still want more information.

I said I wasn't sure the deception is intentional, but on the metabunk thread a poster says it sure looks intentional because they always hide Josefina's hands in the imagery, which are some of the clearest signs it's fake. So hiding the most obviously faked part of the mummy does suggest intentional deception:

Hiding Josefina's hands

They know they are fakes because they keep hiding Josefina's hands, and because they keep not having actual mummy experts examine them.

Fake looking hands intentionally blacked out from images

I think the poster makes a good point. Why would they black out the fake looking hands unless they knew they looked fake?

That documentary proving they are manufactured isn't just saying they are manufactured, it shows lots of evidence they are manufactured, which is conclusive enough for all the scientists who see it who aren't associates of Jaime Maussan. They show scans of fake manipulalations of bones, so awful that if the creature was real it wouldn't have been able to walk, it discusses the missing ligaments and similar tissues that a real mummy would have, etc. They even interview someone who helped make the fakes, though his face is blurred since the grave robbers are a criminal gang that could exact retribution if his identity is shown.

There is also this declaration from a group of scientists in Lima complaining about fraudulently manipulated mummies (emphasis mine on the maliciously manipulated and mutilated complaint):

DECLARATION OF THE SCIENTIFIC COMMUNITY REGARDING THE FRAUD OF EXTRATERRESTRIAL MUMMIES

DECLARATION OF THE SCIENTIFIC COMMUNITY REGARDING

THE FRAUD OF EXTRATERRESTRIAL MUMMIES

The subscribers of this document, members of the national and international scientific community, experts in the study and conservation of human remains (mummies and skeletons), communicate the following:

1.- In the last few months, the alleged discovery of "extraterrestrial mummies" in our country has been publicized through an irresponsible, organized disinformation campaign.

2.- Testimonies and published images on this case, allow to assert that these findings correspond undoubtedly to pre-Columbian human remains - Cultural Patrimony of the Nation -, maliciously manipulated and even mutilated to obtain an 'ad hoc' appearance for commercial exploitation. Moreover, the exclusion of the entire related archaeological contexts is absolutely contrary to the scientific investigation of this kind of cultural finds.

3.- It is upon our authorities to make the corresponding accusations, since this 'production' has violated numerous national and international norms that watch for the defense of Cultural Heritage. We hope that these same authorities will seek the protection and correct investigation of these remains and their place of origin, in order to stop looting and trafficking of human remains. We also expect exemplary sanctions for those responsible of this depredation of heritage that is of all Peruvians and Humanity as a whole.

4.- Finally, the criminal abuse of corpses for petty ends violates human dignity in a profound way. Thus, exploitation of pre-Columbian mummies carried out by this organization, attacks and particularly offends the Andean Culture, implying that its achievements were due to an alleged 'alien aid'.

We offer our best offices to collaborate with the authorities to demonstrate our statements in the corresponding instances. We also offer to participate in activities that would defend our patrimony and help educate the public about our ancestors and their legacy.

Lima, July 10, 2017

Sonia Guillén O’negglio (DNI 04649168), Guido Lombardi Almonacín (DNI 06959233), Elsa Tomasto-Cagigao (DNI 07258405), María del Carmen Vega Dulanto (DNI 10308912), Mellisa Lund Valle (DNI 07763061), Patricia Maita (DNI 25835019), Martha Palma (DNI 10537749), Carlos Herz Sáenz (DNI 07913390), Alejandra Valverde Barbosa (DNI 48813194), Marcela Urizar Vergara (CI 11347428-9), Claudia Aranda (DNI: 20056087), Leandro Luna (DNI: 23511760), Paula Concepción Miranda (DNI 29497158), Alejandro Vazquez Reyna (DNI 30651135)

The first name on the list is an anthropologist: "Sonia Elizabeth Guillén is a Peruvian anthropologist and the President of the Centro Mallqui, who is the current Minister of Culture of Peru. She was elected a foreign associate the National Academy of Sciences (NAS) in 2012. "

a reply to: Rosby123

I'm not sure of any thing, but I think it's more likely this is another hoax.

originally posted by: ArMaP
a reply to: Rosby123

I'm not sure of any thing, but I think it's more likely this is another hoax.

I am not sure either and it could be a hoax.
There are doubts about the authenticity of these skeletons but some of the researchers insist they are real and authentic.

originally posted by: Rosby123
There are doubts about the authenticity of these skeletons but some of the researchers insist they are real and authentic.

Then those researchers should make public all the data in which they based their opinions, so other experts can confirm their findings.

a reply to: Rosby123

Interesting but the truth is U.F,O. pseudoskeptics will never accept any evidence. I have heard skeptics talk about an encounter they had in one breath and they explain it away as a hallucination or weather balloon in the next breath.

This could be alien DNA but educated skeptics will obfuscate the issue in a way that doesn't refute it but it will allow them to always doubt it. If rhey can't do that they will attack those who made the discovery.

I'm not saying it's true, I'm saying if it is true it will be excused away by pseudoskeptics so they always have a reason not to accept it.

originally posted by: ArMaP

originally posted by: Rosby123
There are doubts about the authenticity of these skeletons but some of the researchers insist they are real and authentic.

Then those researchers should make public all the data in which they based their opinions, so other experts can confirm their findings.

If they did that there goes their UFO/alien claims!

originally posted by: ArMaP

originally posted by: Rosby123
There are doubts about the authenticity of these skeletons but some of the researchers insist they are real and authentic.

Then those researchers should make public all the data in which they based their opinions, so other experts can confirm their findings.

Have they not made public all data and evidence yet?

originally posted by: ArMaP

originally posted by: Rosby123
There are doubts about the authenticity of these skeletons but some of the researchers insist they are real and authentic.

Then those researchers should make public all the data in which they based their opinions, so other experts can confirm their findings.

"Other experts", let's look at that, which implies the people claiming the mummies are genuine are "experts".

Neil deGrasse Tyson is an expert astrophysicist, who received an invitation to examine the mummies, and posted a video on youtube saying yes he's an expert in astrophysics, but he's not accepting the invitation because he's the wrong kind of expert. Why don't they invite the right kind of experts, like mummy experts? Here's the right kind of expert, Alexander Sokolov, an anthropologist in the "Scientists Against Myths" youtube channel, explaining that "Jaime Maussan's scholars" are the wrong kind of "experts" (like Neil Tyson, they may be experts in something, but not the right area for this type of evaluation).

Who Is Selling Aliens? Nazca Humanoid Mummies: The Big Fraud. Episode-1 | Fake science spotlight

19:04
The humanoid mummies of Nazca are a totally different thing! Their authenticity has been confirmed by international experts such as X-ray specialists, medical examiners and geneticists! Even by a dentist from Saint Petersburg, Russia! International experts.

For some strange reason, this international team of experts doesn't list a single archaeologist, or paleontologist, or anthropologist, or a mummy expert. In other words, there's no specialists in the team who should have examined the mummies in the first place!

So the anthropologist is pointing out that experts like him, and paleontologists, and mummy experts should have been the experts consulted initially.

Despite that, the mummies were investigated using X-ray, CT scanning, histology, genetic analysis and carbon dating.

The research was funded by GAIA, a company that creates video content that focuses on pseudoscience, conspiracy theories and yoga...

Complex research of the mummies was done in several countries. Genetic analysis was done in labs in Canada, Russia and Mexico. It's extremely hard to speak up against this plethora of proof. I'd say, it's next to impossible. So, the mummies real after all?

originally posted by: Armageddon17
Have they not made public all data and evidence yet?

I can't say whether or not they have made all data available, but they have made a lot of data available that supposedly supports the claim the mummies are authentic. Except when the right type of experts look at the data, they come to the opposite conclusion as the "wrong kind of experts" Maussan used. For example, look at the published dating data on the hand, below, that supposedly supports the claim it's authentic. Part 2 is full of examples of how the published data shows they are hoaxes.

21:05
I'll analyze all evidence bit by little bit, and I'll prove to you that the humanoid mummies from Nazca are just a simple fake.
We'll do this in the next video.

Here's the link to the next video:

Aliens Cutaway | Nazca Humanoid Mummies: The Big Fraud. Episode-2 | Fake science spotlight
They talk about various evidence that makes it an obvious hoax. For example, one thing they show in an X-ray, is that the forearm bone is obviously a human forearm, installed backwards in the mummy! The part that connects to the wrist was connected to the elbow, and vice versa! So whoever constructed the fakes didn't know much about human anatomy. But you might say, maybe aliens are coincidentally built that way? Nope, it's inconsistent, even the left side of the mummy bodies don't match the right side, the bones are all mixed up, some are even sawed off because they were too long and wouldn't fit, you can see the ends of the bones missing in the X-rays which just show a straight cut and the end of the bone is missing!

I suppose it helps to know something about bones to understand why the bones are a problem, but they definitely are, even more in the hands. But you don't need to be a bone expert to see how this data supposedly authenticating the mummies as genuine actually proves the opposite. It shows the carbon dating of the bone is 1080 plus or minus 25 years, and the skin covering the bone is 7270 plus or minus 40 years, see the published data underlined in red.


That data is supposed to show it's authentic, but it's actually showing it's a hoax! They took some various bones about 1000 years old, and put some 7270 year old skin on top of it! And it's not just that which is mixed up, the bones are all mixed up and not realistic at all, even for an alien, they are so obviously frauds to the experts who examine the X-rays. That's from this video:

Reptilian DNA | Nazca Humanoid Mummies: The Big Fraud. Series-3 | Fake Science Spotlight

7:26
The approach of the falsifiers is apparently to utilize authentic materials from different places and eras, and even more interesting is the dating of one of the humanoid wrists. The skin sample is older than the bone sample from the same finger by 6190 years!

So is the difference really 6190 years, and if so, doesn't that prove it's fake?

Well, those aren't exact figures, you could add 25 to the 1080 and subtract 40 from the 6190, the published uncertainty ranges, but then you still have 1105 year old bone with 6150 skin covering it, still looks constructed from two different corpses, even at the maximum range of the stated uncertainty.

17:46
the radiocarbon analysis testifies to the antiquity of the remains and proves that materials of different ages can be combined into a single mummy

So does anybody want to explain how Maussan's so-called "experts" can claim the mummy is genuine when the published data examined by the right kind of expert shows they are fake? Do you even need to be an expert to see that when you have 7270 year old skin covering 1080 year old bone, there's a problem with your mummy, or at least the claim it's authentic?

17:57 What else do we know:
We do know that the main supplier of the mummies is a guy with a criminal record that the mummies were stored carelessly that the place where they were found is unknown

We do know about the obvious commercial interest of the authors of the finds, about their desire to make money on the mummies. All this put together paints an unambiguous picture the nazca mummies are a crude forgery made using ancient materials among other things.

This is not an innocent prank. The criminals are not just trying to fool those who really want to be deceived. Not only con gullible tourists out of cash.

People are free to believe what they wish, but we're talking here about the destruction of real archaeological sites, about the damage done to the historical heritage of humankind. Those who are helping this cause become accomplices in an atrocity.

originally posted by: Armageddon17
Have they not made public all data and evidence yet?

I don't know.

If they have independent confirmation of their findings they should talk about it, but they are not saying a thing about it, so I suppose they don't have any.

originally posted by: neoholographicpart2
a reply to: Rosby123

Interesting but the truth is U.F,O. pseudoskeptics will never accept any evidence. I have heard skeptics talk about an encounter they had in one breath and they explain it away as a hallucination or weather balloon in the next breath.

This could be alien DNA but educated skeptics will obfuscate the issue in a way that doesn't refute it but it will allow them to always doubt it. If rhey can't do that they will attack those who made the discovery.

I'm not saying it's true, I'm saying if it is true it will be excused away by pseudoskeptics so they always have a reason not to accept it.

In this story we are left to speculate what might has happened without having all the evidence and information. I agree on the point you made about the pseudoskeptics and 'debunkers' and even if there is some truth in the story or even if it was entirely true they will find a way to cast doubt or to attack the sources and the people who brought them up to our attention. Most of the so-called debunkers are not educated but self serving individuals and some are paid to do what they do.

originally posted by: Rosby123

originally posted by: neoholographicpart2
a reply to: Rosby123

Interesting but the truth is U.F,O. pseudoskeptics will never accept any evidence. I have heard skeptics talk about an encounter they had in one breath and they explain it away as a hallucination or weather balloon in the next breath.

This could be alien DNA but educated skeptics will obfuscate the issue in a way that doesn't refute it but it will allow them to always doubt it. If rhey can't do that they will attack those who made the discovery.

I'm not saying it's true, I'm saying if it is true it will be excused away by pseudoskeptics so they always have a reason not to accept it.

In this story we are left to speculate what might has happened without having all the evidence and information. I agree on the point you made about the pseudoskeptics and 'debunkers' and even if there is some truth in the story or even if it was entirely true they will find a way to cast doubt or to attack the sources and the people who brought them up to our attention. Most of the so-called debunkers are not educated but self serving individuals and some are paid to do what they do.

A complicated story that becomes even more complicated when some individuals are trying to make something out of it.

If the facts are separated by the fiction and whatever fabrications then we may have a much more clear picture but as others have said this could be a hoax. Honestly I don't really know.

originally posted by: Rosby123
Most of the so-called debunkers are not educated but self serving individuals and some are paid to do what they do.

I don't know how you come up with this nonsense, but the last source I posted was the youtube channel "Scientists Against Myths". They are highly educated scientists, so it seems extremely odd for you to make a post about poor education of the debunkers so soon after the posted debunking by well educated scientists. Their youtube videos can be viewed for free. Like many youtube channels, they put a lot of work into making their videos and say if you like their work you can voluntarily make a donation, and the channel may be monetized, but they are hardly making the kind of money the hoaxers are making from this Nazca mummies hoax.

You also failed to address the specific facts the debunkers point out, like the data supposedly authenticating the mummy as "real" showing carbon dating of 7270 year old skin covering 1080 year old bone. This is data published by the advocates saying it's real, but that data shows it's fake and you just ignore it? The second and third videos from that channel also have lots more evidence proving they are hoaxed, but I get the impression you don't even want to know the truth or discuss the facts. So maybe concocted ad-hominems are all you have, since you don't have any facts to show the debunkers are wrong?

originally posted by: ArMaP
a reply to: sendhelp
"José de Jesús Zalce Benítez, director of the Scientific Institute for Health of the Mexican Navy, who said X-rays, 3D reconstruction and DNA analysis had been carried out on the remains.“I can affirm that these bodies have no relation to human beings,” he told the lawmakers."

I see two problems with the above:
1 - He "said" that X-rays, 3d reconstruction and DNA analysis had been carried out, but did he say who carried them out?
2 - Saying that the "bodies have no relation to human beings" means nothing.

originally posted by: Arbitrageur
The bigger problem you didn't even mention is his the complete lack of credibility José de Jesús Zalce Benítez has. He's one of "Maussan's scholars" who confirmed the "alien mummy" in the Roswell slides wasn't human, but that mummy was shown to be a human boy from South America that was on display in a museum. So I don't know why anybody would listen to anything Benítez says about non-humans and aliens after that embarrassment.

I posted that reply about Benitez trying to fool us before when he said the "Roswell Slides" human boy couldn't be human. He was one of three of "Maussan's Scholars" presenting on the Roswell slides who said that. I wanted to post a link with that reply but I didn't have it readily available at the time, but I found the link so I'm updating the thread with it, for my own reference as well as anybody else who isn't familiar with the lack of credibility José de Jesús Zalce Benítez:

Analysis of the “Roswell Slides” (FAQ)

...Jaime Maussan, who presented the “Roswell Slides” as “the most important UFO evidence of the most important case in the history of the extraterrestrial UFO phenomenon” and “the Smoking Gun.”

During the event moving speeches were delivered, recorded interviews of Roswell witnesses were projected and experts testified that the body could not possibly be human:

Richard Doble, MA, Canadian physical anthropologist
José de Jesús Zalce Benítez, Professor of Forensic Medicine at the National Medicine School of Mexico
Dr. Luis Antonio de Alba Galindo, anatomist and physiologist, lecturer at the UNAM (Universidad Nacional Autónoma de Mexico)

Once the full resolution images were made available, it was possible to de-blur the placard describing the mummy on display at the Mesa Verde Archeological Museum, which was titled: "MUMMIFIED BODY OF TWO YEAR OLD BOY". It's definitely human, so those three people saying it couldn't possibly be human were obviously very wrong.

I bolded Benitez because his name was brought up here in another hoax of the Nazca mummies, but I also wouldn't trust any more "non-human" claims coming from Richard Doble or Luis Antonio de Alba Galindo, in addition to those from Benitez.

a reply to: Arbitrageur

The problem with Jaime Maussan is that he has "cried wolf" so many times with the help of other people that it's hard to believe in any thing he or anyone connected to him says.

a reply to: Arbitrageur

Online debunkers are nothing more than self-appointed arbiters of truth and on some occasions paid to do a job. Sometimes a debunker happens to be a scientist but that's not what online debunkers are.

originally posted by: ArMaP
a reply to: Arbitrageur

The problem with Jaime Maussan is that he has "cried wolf" so many times with the help of other people that it's hard to believe in any thing he or anyone connected to him says.

All they need to do is to examine the material presented and the evidence and see if what Maussan and his team says is true.

originally posted by: Kosimir

originally posted by: ArMaP
a reply to: Arbitrageur

The problem with Jaime Maussan is that he has "cried wolf" so many times with the help of other people that it's hard to believe in any thing he or anyone connected to him says.

All they need to do is to examine the material presented and the evidence and see if what Maussan and his team says is true.

They have already presented the carbon dating of 7270 year old skin covering 1080 year old bone, indicating that the mummy was assembled from corpses of different ages. If it was real, it would be 1080 year old skin covering 1080 year old bone, or 7270 year old skin covering 7270 year old bone, right? What more do you need to know? The evidence has already been examined and outside of Maussan's little circle, there is no question they are hoaxed.

originally posted by: Arbitrageur

originally posted by: Kosimir

originally posted by: ArMaP
a reply to: Arbitrageur

The problem with Jaime Maussan is that he has "cried wolf" so many times with the help of other people that it's hard to believe in any thing he or anyone connected to him says.

All they need to do is to examine the material presented and the evidence and see if what Maussan and his team says is true.

They have already presented the carbon dating of 7270 year old skin covering 1080 year old bone, indicating that the mummy was assembled from corpses of different ages. If it was real, it would be 1080 year old skin covering 1080 year old bone, or 7270 year old skin covering 7270 year old bone, right? What more do you need to know? The evidence has already been examined and outside of Maussan's little circle, there is no question they are hoaxed.

I haven't seen this information yet and I don't know what is happening. Anyone can claim anything but the original post says researchers and scientists have determined the skeletons are real and authentic. Are they lying?

Why is this thread not in the Hoax Bin and the author not in the UFO Grifters and Shysters thread?

a reply to: Arbitrageur

The skeletons in my opinion must be examined from a range of scientists all over the world in an open and transparent way and the results be made public. This way nobody will have any doubts and it will prove if these skeletons are real and what are their origins. It hasn't happened yet as far as I know.