Why did the universe start…

originally posted by: RAY1990

Cause and effect?

We make reasons because we think.

Give us a cage and an issue and we'll think. Some might call it domestication. I'm not that clever to work it out tbh but I have seen animals kill themselves whilst trying to understand.

Usually they were captured or forced to think.

I guess you and others missed my point. I agree we can have established reason because we think, but it doesn't mean the universe needs reason to exist.

originally posted by: RAY1990

Physics cannot be changed... the sun must be including the stars and the rest of it too. Just might not be our Sun as you say. There'll always be a Sol though, to say otherwise would be literally unimaginable

Rules or laws as we call them as to how "our" universe operates can be mindless with no reason. There are no reasons why water freezes at 32F, it just does. If we rerun Earth's history infinite times, we would get infinite results with none matching.

originally posted by: Unharmed
What I see is you're saying you want everything and everybody dead.

How did you read that in my post? Life is a natural product of our universe, and it is most likely everywhere conditions allow. Earth has tried to kill off life here a number of times just to see it spring back in abundance. We can say life is here, but we really cannot predict what that life will be.

What do you think? Do you think the universe is like a long film that no matter how many times you play it the story is the same?

a reply to: Xtrozero

I guess you and others missed my point. I agree we can have established reason because we think, but it doesn't mean the universe needs reason to exist.

Oh.

I wouldn't say that. I just don't know why the universe exists but even the dumbest amongst us has to agree on the rules. Otherwise they'll bash their head again and die. The universe does exist and any deviation from the known wouldn't be reality so therefore unrealistic?

In science we look for patterns not reason. Not that I'm a scientist.

Rules or laws as we call them as to how "our" universe operates can be mindless with no reason. There are no reasons why water freezes at 32F, it just does. If we rerun Earth's history infinite times, we would get infinite results with none matching.

Dude have you been at the shrooms haha, I'd love ya if you did but anyways I'm sure you know the cycles of water are dependent on atmospheric conditions, things can be different a million times but the chemistry is apparently finite, as is the gravity and the state of decay.

You can't beat entropy and it apparently demands the same thing every time. The deviations are merely perception?

Idk beyond my pay grade...
I could do with seeing it differently tbh.

originally posted by: RAY1990

Oh.

I wouldn't say that. I just don't know why the universe exists but even the dumbest amongst us has to agree on the rules. Otherwise they'll bash their head again and die. The universe does exist and any deviation from the known wouldn't be reality so therefore unrealistic?

In science we look for patterns not reason. Not that I'm a scientist.

Going back to the OP "Why?" My point is there doesn't need to be a why... This is why I suggest a reason is not needed. The OP's question is more of an intelligent design one, and as you suggest we can't know, but I can see we really do not need intelligent design. That isn't saying there isn't one, just that it is not some requirement.

You can't beat entropy and it apparently demands the same thing every time.

True unless it is led by that intelligent design.

a reply to: Xtrozero

I'm with you.

All I know is that every day the universe was formed one day.

originally posted by: Unharmed
a reply to: Xtrozero

What I see is you're saying you want everything and everybody dead.

In the beginning was the word
And that was enough
But the word sort of grew
Into all sorts of stuff
Which was fine at the start
When the word was innate
Like a warning call
Or a signal to mate
Then it got complicated
With pronouns and verbs
And grammar and syntax
Just made it worse

And the word became king
The thing in itself
And every word
On the library shelf
Became so important
We began to believe
That somehow the word
Could never deceive
The word said I think
So therefore I am
That old philosophical
Descartes scam

originally posted by: Unharmed
All I know is that every day the universe was formed one day.

That is about the only truism we have. We can't even fully know what reality is since it is different for every living life and even with us a small chemical change can put anyone of us in a totally different reality.

a reply to: Xtrozero

I have the feeling I rained on your parade, my apologies. I should've known.

a reply to: midicon

This is beautiful!

a reply to: SchrodingersRat

The beauty of love for this! Thank you! Reaching deep love of many who have come to been born to this universe we roam.

Nomadic ways treat us right! What is this that we call “home?” Who are we? Who are they!

Some questions form words that can’t be seen!

Time is sometimes a disaster!

This song of words is the Universe that speaks to us all!

Thank you again!

a reply to: Unharmed

It was formed for you to return and be happy again! It’s good to know the universe holds you! I am honored that you have traveled here again!

Thank you for your wisdom!

a reply to: JJproductions

Hi JJ, thank you!

a reply to: Xtrozero

I agree.

That's something I've often expressed on here when it comes to the ultimate question. I like to be "clever" and say all the roads lead to a door nobody ever comes back from. What's beyond is a total mystery beyond stories and abstract concepts. Flaming swords and all that...

I wasn't the first kid to ask "so who made God?" The question doesn't even matter to me anymore but I do love pondering now and then. Still I'm unsure if re-runs of the simulation would actually be remakes and if the theory of endless multiverses are true then it literally doesn't matter anyways because it's all the same just slightly different. I don't think we live in a computer btw and I consider that question one that also deserves similar dismissal.

It doesn't matter, just like whatever is behind that proverbial door doesn't matter. Imho anyways. Maybe we wake up from this place like it was a dream as Bob Marley said, for now the simulation is as real as it gets. A thought I had once was if someone managed to escape existence and watch it fissle away they'd in theory be timeless until it all goes boom once again, in that second of creation they'd be separated throughout existence. Like an imprint on creation via defragmentation and the creator is a memory image file.

I realise I'm poorly explaining that...
a reply to: midicon

That was awesome, thanks for sharing!

originally posted by: RAY1990
That's something I've often expressed on here when it comes to the ultimate question. I like to be "clever" and say all the roads lead to a door nobody ever comes back from. What's beyond is a total mystery beyond stories and abstract concepts. Flaming swords and all that...

It is impossible to truly understand what is outside our universe, so I have no issues with calling it God.

I wasn't the first kid to ask "so who made God?" The question doesn't even matter to me anymore but I do love pondering now and then. Still I'm unsure if re-runs of the simulation would actually be remakes and if the theory of endless multiverses are true then it literally doesn't matter anyways because it's all the same just slightly different. I don't think we live in a computer btw and I consider that question one that also deserves similar dismissal.

Who made the computer...lol

I'm more in the group that doesn't go down some chicken or egg scenario. Just some infinite zero-time scenario... Just lost some brain cells. I also just like calling it an unfalsifiable statement.

It doesn't matter, just like whatever is behind that proverbial door doesn't matter. Imho anyways. Maybe we wake up from this place like it was a dream as Bob Marley said, for now the simulation is as real as it gets. A thought I had once was if someone managed to escape existence and watch it fissle away they'd in theory be timeless until it all goes boom once again, in that second of creation they'd be separated throughout existence. Like an imprint on creation via defragmentation and the creator is a memory image file.

Where I scratch my head is when intelligent design is transposed over the Bible God and then we go down paths of God created it all and also cares if I do sins...

a reply to: Xtrozero

I do mention God/creator since it's the most accessible way of describing it for most... The universe might've started with that Microsoft ding that means an oopsie happened for all I know. Yeah there's a few questions out there that I describe as "a dog chasing it's tail" because we can't get anywhere with them... It works in more ways than one.

Time and braincells are precious things!

Where I scratch my head is when intelligent design is transposed over the Bible God and then we go down paths of God created it all and also cares if I do sins...

I always wondered on that logical jump because a theme does exist throughout all faiths, I don't think they point to God but to the human condition, that said I'm probably further from the truth on that one since I've never been able to commit to any of their lines of reasoning, especially the Abrahamic religions.

a reply to: Xtrozero

The place where we live, eat and sleep is what is outside the universe.

Our side,
Inside,
Outside
We don't know.

originally posted by: Unharmed

The place where we live, eat and sleep is what is outside the universe.

Our side,
Inside,
Outside
We don't know.

Our perspective is extremely limited. You are very close in your point. Our universe exists in our brains. We have data collection tools, but the brain puts it all together. What our brain ends up with is very fragile as even a small chemical can change it all into something else.

If you haven't read it yet, go read The Invisible Gorilla. It's a great book discussing our limitations in what data we can or cannot collect.

originally posted by: Xtrozero
What our brain ends up with is very fragile as even a small chemical can change it all into something else.

Sounds good when you want to get rid of anything undesired the brain comes up with.