A hill to die on

originally posted by: Oldcarpy2
Some also claim that Ireland is "occupied" and that the IRA are freedom fighters and not terrorists.

You just have to deny ignorance and confront wilful ignorance.

You really do, don't you? So, let's get cracking.

Have you heard of the Good Friday Agreement?

The agreement acknowledged:

that the majority of the people of Northern Ireland wished to remain a part of the United Kingdom;
that a substantial section of the people of Northern Ireland, and the majority of the people of the island of Ireland, wished to bring about a united Ireland.

en.wikipedia.org...

Do you understand what that means? What that acknowledges? And how that simple act of recognition makes the world of difference?

originally posted by: Mawdano

Do you have evidence that the killing in Gaza is done by Hamas and not an IDF undercover soldier?

No, I don't, and neither do you...that is the point...

a reply to: Xtrozero

why are they not using generators

Because they are running out of fuel.

My point is we really do not know the truth and in a month or so we will know better, but right now there is a ton of propaganda that people accept as the truth.

Ok wait for the news

You don't think Hamas loves the fake that the hospital is above their main HQ? You don't think they want all these stories to come out, you don't think they push as they can?

Maybe

a reply to: Spiramirabilis

point is HAMAS is/was the leadershp of GAZA and the Palitinian people, and THEY attacked Israel in such a way that this exact scenario was the only answer anyone expected as a result of that attack. So to see anyone with the "shocked" face on after this is disenginious at best.

This was done with the explicit reason to provoke this response.

a reply to: network dude

So you believe it justifies the massacre of innocent civilians?

originally posted by: Mawdano
a reply to: network dude

Would any of this have happened if Israeli Russians, Ukrainians etc came to Palestine over a British tank on 1948 to massacre 200 unarmed civilians who were taken as prisoners, rape 16 years old girls and use flamethrowers to burn Palestinian civilians alive AKA Tantura massacre

weren't they a little angry over that little incident with the NAZI folk? Or was that a myth like ANTIFA?

a reply to: network dude

First of all Hamas is an Israeli project

Former Israeli officials such as Brig. Gen. Yitzhak Segev, who was the Israeli military governor in Gaza in the early 1980s. Segev later told a New York Times reporter that he had helped finance the Palestinian Islamist movement as a “counterweight” to the secularists and leftists of the Palestine Liberation Organization and the Fatah party, led by Yasser Arafat (who himself referred to Hamas as “a creature of Israel.”)

“The Israeli government gave me a budget,” the retired brigadier general confessed, “and the military government gives to the mosques.”

“Hamas, to my great regret, is Israel’s creation,” Avner Cohen, a former Israeli religious affairs official who worked in Gaza for more than two decades, told the Wall Street Journal in 2009. Back in the mid-1980s, Cohen even wrote an official report to his superiors warning them not to play divide-and-rule in the Occupied Territories, by backing Palestinian Islamists against Palestinian secularists. “I … suggest focusing our efforts on finding ways to break up this monster before this reality jumps in our face,” he wrote.

They didn’t listen to him. And Hamas, as I explain in the fifth installment of my short film series for The Intercept on blowback, was the result. To be clear: First, the Israelis helped build up a militant strain of Palestinian political Islam, in the form of Hamas and its Muslim Brotherhood precursors; then, the Israelis switched tack and tried to bomb, besiege, and blockade it out of existence.

While this information has been accessible for quite some time, no one has explained it as effectively as our own Ron Paul back in the day. He revealed how the United States and Israel played a role in the creation of Hamas as a countermeasure against Yasser Arafat, the Palestinian political leader and chairman of the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO).

revolver.news...



Israel had prior knowledge about the attack

Egypt warned Israel ‘days’ before Hamas attack: Rep. Michael McCaul
Egyptian intelligence officials warned their Israeli counterparts of a possible terror attack days before Hamas slaughtered at least 1,300 people, according to the Republican chairman of the House Foreign Affairs Committee — who said Wednesday he doesn’t know how Israel and the US missed the signs.

“We know the Egyptian intelligence service handed this off days before the terrorist invasion, if you will, or attack,” Rep. Michael McCaul (R-Texas) told CNN following a closed-door intelligence briefing. “So, there’s a lot of questions about that.”
nypost.com...

This is from a piece in Foreign Policy in 2021.

Today, however, decades of brutal Israeli control have demolished the moral case for unconditional U.S. support. Israeli governments of all stripes have expanded settlements, denied Palestinians legitimate political rights, treated them as second-class citizens within Israel itself, and used Israel’s superior military power to kill and terrorize residents of Gaza, the West Bank, and Lebanon with near impunity. Given all this, it is not surprising Human Rights Watch and the Israeli human rights organization B’Tselem have recently issued well-documented and convincing reports describing these various policies as a system of apartheid. The rightward drift of Israel’s domestic politics and the growing role of extremist parties in Israeli politics have done further damage to Israel’s image, including among many American Jews.

Meanwhile, the costs of the special relationship keep rising. Critics of U.S. support for Israel often start with the more than $3 billion dollars of military and economic aid Washington provides Israel every year, even though Israel is now a wealthy country whose per capita income ranks 19th in the world. There are undoubtedly better ways to spend that money, but it is a drop in the bucket for the United States, a country with a $21 trillion economy. The real costs of the special relationship are political.

foreignpolicy.com...

Israel is a first world country. They need to fund themselves.

a reply to: network dude

I did get the chance to ask how angry they have been. I'm sure they were not very happy.

a reply to: network dude
That's not a well thought out, is it?. He deserves a real reply

a reply to: network dude

I keep asking myself WHY Palestine took this action. Exactly as you say, they knew what the response would be.

This new super meth that is apparently becoming an issue in the ME. Captagon I think its called.

ISIS on meth. Sounds like a fun weekend

a reply to: MoreCoyoteAngels

Hamas which is an Israeli funded organization project took this action because they are a terror organization. The innocent Palestinian kids are paying the price.

More than 3,600 Palestinian children were killed in just 3 weeks of war
apnews.com...

originally posted by: Spiramirabilis
a reply to: network dude

So you believe it justifies the massacre of innocent civilians?

justifies, no. Explains the situation, yes. As I have said, war is stupid no matter who does it. Killing innocent people is wrong. But there is a distinct difference here you seem hell bent on ignoring.

HAMAS went to Israel with the explicit mission to kill innocent civilians. 1400 of them. That was their goal, and still is.

Israel went to GAZA to kill HAMAS. They aren't "carpet bombing" GAZA because they don't want to kill innocent civilians if it can be helped. It's a war, and regardless of how I feel about it, there will be caualties, and because there are still civilians in GAZA who didn't leave, they are in danger, since the war is actually in GAZA.

So while everyone wants to be on the moral high ground here, there ins't any. Which continually beings me back to wondering "what should Israel have done?" And other than say, "not killed innocent civilians" there does't seem to be an answer.

But there is one agressor here. One bad seed that started this current conflict. And we all are pretty clear on whom that was. The group that is hiding behind those innocent civilians, using them as human shields for the very reason they can use them as dead meat puppets for the MSM to make people like you sound a lot like you are pro HAMAS and Anti Israel. Your true position isn't relevent in the appearnce seen by others.

a reply to: Mawdano

Opinion | A Brief History of the Netanyahu-Hamas Alliance
For 14 years, Netanyahu's policy was to keep Hamas in power; the pogrom of October 7, 2023, helps the Israeli prime minister preserve his own rule

An opinion piece. Also, it's from Haaretz

Most people in this thread won't read any of this. Because, you know: they understand the history

Hopefully fixed. Haaretz will let you read it for free. Worth the effort

a reply to: network dude


I hate Hamas and I hate equally lies.

HAMAS went to Israel with the explicit mission to kill innocent civilians. 1400 of them. That was their goal, and still is.

Yasmin Porat, who survived the Hamas assault on the Be’eri kibbutz near Gaza on 7 October, stated in a radio interview on Israeli state broadcaster Kan that Israeli civilians were killed by their security forces as well.

“They eliminated everyone, including the hostages,” the mother of three told Kan. “There was very, very heavy crossfire.”

The Israeli military has released drone footage showing hundreds of scorched and damaged cars moved from the Nova music festival, providing further evidence that Israeli forces likely killed many of their own during the start of Operation Al-Aqsa Flood on 7 October, RT reported on 6 November.

new.thecradle.co...

I understand that there was an terror attack but blaming the 1400 on one side isn't the truth. The Israeli government doesn't care about Jews and use them as cattle.

Israel went to GAZA to kill HAMAS.

More than 3,600 Palestinian children were killed in just 3 weeks of war. Did they really went to kill Hamas or the children?
apnews.com...

a reply to: Mawdano

I do understand that, and also feel Israel had prior knowledge of the attack. Their intel is too damn good not to.

But none of that changes what happened. Did HAMAS kill 1400 civilians or did they not?

originally posted by: network dude
Israel went to GAZA to kill HAMAS. They aren't "carpet bombing" GAZA because they don't want to kill innocent civilians if it can be helped. It's a war, and regardless of how I feel about it, there will be caualties, and because there are still civilians in GAZA who didn't leave, they are in danger, since the war is actually in GAZA.

Or maybe they aren't carpet bombing because they don't want to kill the hostages.

Didn't leave? Can't leave.

a reply to: network dude

But none of that changes what happened. Did HAMAS kill 1400 civilians or did they not?

I have addressed this point already in my previous post.

I do understand that, and also feel Israel had prior knowledge of the attack. Their intel is too damn good not to.

They created Hamas and their intel failed given that they where told by external allies that the attack will happen. I agree.Makes sense.

a reply to: Mawdano

You didn't respond to my comment, so why bother addressing me?

My comment was about the strategy of Hamas to attack Israel. Any thoughts on that?

originally posted by: network dude
I do understand that, and also feel Israel had prior knowledge of the attack. Their intel is too damn good not to.

Israel is all techy-techy. Excessively so. It's a known. Whoever organised the attack went old school. You're a "Network" dude, you know how that works. Down the Lodge?