A hill to die on

a reply to: Xtrozero

We didn't see the Holocaust and we take it as gospel truth, are you a Holocaust denier?

We know Israel has lied about so many things, most recently the 40 beheaded babies that we took as gospel truth.

a reply to: Lazy88

Hamas and Israeli government are both terror organizations. Where we already know that Israeli government funded creation of Hamas.

Former Israeli officials such as Brig. Gen. Yitzhak Segev, who was the Israeli military governor in Gaza in the early 1980s. Segev later told a New York Times reporter that he had helped finance the Palestinian Islamist movement as a “counterweight” to the secularists and leftists of the Palestine Liberation Organization and the Fatah party, led by Yasser Arafat (who himself referred to Hamas as “a creature of Israel.”)

“The Israeli government gave me a budget,” the retired brigadier general confessed, “and the military government gives to the mosques.”

“Hamas, to my great regret, is Israel’s creation,” Avner Cohen, a former Israeli religious affairs official who worked in Gaza for more than two decades, told the Wall Street Journal in 2009. Back in the mid-1980s, Cohen even wrote an official report to his superiors warning them not to play divide-and-rule in the Occupied Territories, by backing Palestinian Islamists against Palestinian secularists. “I … suggest focusing our efforts on finding ways to break up this monster before this reality jumps in our face,” he wrote.

They didn’t listen to him. And Hamas, as I explain in the fifth installment of my short film series for The Intercept on blowback, was the result. To be clear: First, the Israelis helped build up a militant strain of Palestinian political Islam, in the form of Hamas and its Muslim Brotherhood precursors; then, the Israelis switched tack and tried to bomb, besiege, and blockade it out of existence.

While this information has been accessible for quite some time, no one has explained it as effectively as our own Ron Paul back in the day. He revealed how the United States and Israel played a role in the creation of Hamas as a countermeasure against Yasser Arafat, the Palestinian political leader and chairman of the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO).

revolver.news...

Innocent Palestinians and Jews are against Hamas and Israel.

a reply to: DBCowboy


Yasmin Porat, who survived the Hamas assault on the Be’eri kibbutz near Gaza on 7 October, stated in a radio interview on Israeli state broadcaster Kan that Israeli civilians were killed by their security forces as well.

“They eliminated everyone, including the hostages,” the mother of three told Kan. “There was very, very heavy crossfire.”

The Israeli military has released drone footage showing hundreds of scorched and damaged cars moved from the Nova music festival, providing further evidence that Israeli forces likely killed many of their own during the start of Operation Al-Aqsa Flood on 7 October, RT reported on 6 November.

new.thecradle.co...

I understand that there was an terror attack but blaming the 1400 on one side isn't the truth. The Israeli government doesn't care about Jews and use them as cattle.

originally posted by: Mawdano


Hamas and Israeli government are both terror organizations.

Supposedly Israel gave up Gaza for peace. Land for peace. How did that work out?

The Israeli Supreme Court came down 10 to 15 years ago on using human shields. Hamas is still using human shields.

Shrugs.

a reply to: Lazy88

Hamas was created to cause terror in the region. Israel government and politicians are supporting their Hamas project by bombing civilians. Hamas market itself to public as the hero that is going to take revenge for the civilians death.

The Israeli government dictionary of Palestinian civilians:
Palestinian Kid = Human Shield
Palestinian Woman = Human Shield
Hospital = Hamas Base
School = Hamas Base
Water Storage Station = Hamas Base
Electricity Grid = Hamas Base
House = Hamas Base
Church = Hamas Base
Bakery = Hamas Base
Restaurant = Hamas Base
Street = Hamas Base

a reply to: BiothermalReactor

in what ways is this poster syaing that?

Show me exactly where they are saying Israel has committed no crimes, and if they have, what absolves them of them.

My beliefs are my own

a reply to: DBCowboy

You're justifying your position with history are you?

Please explain how history helped you with your decision

You chose this as your hill to die on. Except, you're not going to die on any hill. Are you?

And yet you believe you're somehow wise enough to decide who does deserve to die

You've decided that innocent children, women, the elderly - and innocent men as well - all deserve to die

Because you understand history

Since you're not ignoring history, and since you have such an educated perspective on the situation, maybe you'd be willing to explain how you chose your paper shuffling, pencil pushing hill to die on

Explain the history in a meaningful way so we can understand why a mass slaughter of innocent civilians will right a wrong

Thank you in advance

originally posted by: buckstopper
a reply to: DBCowboy

Not sure how to stand with Israel after they attacked the Liberty. What are your thoughts and knowledge on that?

I ask your knowledge on the Liberty and her sinking before I give you my knowledge.

Or I give you mine now to give you time to make up your story that the Israeli fighter planes that attacked and sank the Liberty were just tourist paragliders that accidently dropped stuff.

The Liberty was a spy ship. manned with men of my fathers unit of the Army Security agency. Men my father knew.

Israel destroyed that American flag flying ship intentionally.
You have no ties to that boat, I get it... before your time.... I get it.... I do.

I do not support any Fing terrorist like hamas....

I know you claim to be a Constitutionalist, but your support of Trump who claimed to never swear to defend the Constitution, Said suspend all laws even those in the Constitution, begs otherwise.

Were you military? Lets say a Blackwater group wiped out your whole unit, you were sole survivor, how long would it take you to forgive Blackwater and for you then to actually support them?

It is your hill to die on, but I would rather you live on that hill. I support Israel, then I remember that... Choices are not always black and white.

I am against Mexico due to the Spanish American war. I hate England due to the Revolution.
Don't you as well?

originally posted by: Leviathan4

I think the opposite has happened.
People in these threads were referencing the Israeli Government and the IDF as credible and reliable sources when in reality they emit propaganda on a 24/7 basis.

A few days ago the IDF and some Israeli Politicians were arguing that there is no humanitarian crisis in Gaza. Since then they have made a series of claims and statements by inciting genocide and arguing that Gaza should be flattened and wiped out of the map.

You keep taking the words of individuals that you suggest speak for the government the "no humanitarian crisis" was much longer than a few days ago and came from one or a very small group. You are biased against anything that isn't pro-Hamas propaganda. You need to stop thinking everything from Hasmas is correct and everything else is fake.

My claim is 100% correct that you and others take whatever Hamas says is true. You can't even suggest Hasmas pushes propaganda to their own goals.

a reply to: Xtrozero

You are biased against anything that isn't pro-Hamas propaganda. You need to stop thinking everything from Hasmas is correct and everything else is fake.

You can't be serious

originally posted by: Mawdano

We didn't see the Holocaust and we take it as gospel truth, are you a Holocaust denier?

We know Israel has lied about so many things, most recently the 40 beheaded babies that we took as gospel truth.

So how about the 5000 babies that Hamas says have been killed, where are the piles of dead bodies? You are confusing what is going on in real time with what has been documented for many decades. The 40 babies were pushed by the media after an IDF soldier said they have seen up to 40 children killed so far. Do you think as whole families were wiped out children were also killed?

We really do not know what is going on other than Hamas what Hamas is saying. In a month we will know more of the truth, but some here take whatever Hamas pushes as truth. You do not think that Hamas has not been killing in Gaza and blaming it on the Jews?

originally posted by: Spiramirabilis
a reply to: DBCowboy

You're justifying your position with history are you?

Please explain how history helped you with your decision

You chose this as your hill to die on. Except, you're not going to die on any hill. Are you?

And yet you believe you're somehow wise enough to decide who does deserve to die

You've decided that innocent children, women, the elderly - and innocent men as well - all deserve to die

Because you understand history

Since you're not ignoring history, and since you have such an educated perspective on the situation, maybe you'd be willing to explain how you chose your paper shuffling, pencil pushing hill to die on

Explain the history in a meaningful way so we can understand why a mass slaughter of innocent civilians will right a wrong

Thank you in advance

Did the 1400 deserve to die? Can you show the posts you made condmning that? They should be just after October 7th.

a reply to: Xtrozero

I don't like Hamas, and also I don't like lies. The Israeli government has a special operations unit to spread lies.

The truth is here for those who are looking to understand more about humanitarian crisis from the United Nations

At least 70% of Gaza will be without access to drinking water by the end of Wdnesday, the UN Relief and Works Agency (UNRWA) has warned. The agency blamed Israel’s fuel blockade for the crisis, which has resulted in the collapse of water infrastructure in the enclave.
www.rt.com...

The U.N. agency providing aid to Palestinian civilians in besieged Gaza warned it may have to shut down operations shortly if no fuel reaches the enclave, amid an increasingly desperate need for shelter, water, food and medical services.

The United Nations agency for Palestinian refugees (UNRWA) said it urgently needed fuel to maintain life-saving humanitarian operations in the Islamist Hamas-ruled enclave that has been under Israeli bombardment for almost three weeks.
www.reuters.com...


At least six infants and nine other patients are died in the intensive care unit of Shifa Hospital in Gaza due to lack of oxygen and electricity due to Israeli army besige.

Two hospitals shut down amid a warning from WHO that more premature bodies will die. These actions from Israel are the War Crimes and genocide of Palestine.

eurasiamedianetwork.com...

a reply to: network dude
This post only proves you don't have a legitimate argument. Not in this thread

Do you honestly not have the ability to see these as linked but separate situations?

Are you not capable of being equally horrified and disgusted by both?

I think you're not, actually. Otherwise you wouldn't have written something like this

Meanwhile, what does your reply to me have to do with my reply to DB? Aside from giving you an opportunity to post something that gives you away

Do you also believe you understand the history behind this well enough to explain - and justify - the slaughter of innocent civilians?

a reply to: Xtrozero

I saw so many pictures of dead children in Gaza (Many on Twitter). I think we can get at least 500 pictures now but they are so violent and might cause disturbance to ATS members. I'm glad to share the pictures with you.

You do not think that Hamas has not been killing in Gaza and blaming it on the Jews?

Do you have evidence that the killing in Gaza is done by Hamas and not an IDF undercover soldier?

a reply to: Mawdano

would any of this have happened if HAMAS has not killed 1400 civilians in Israel on October 7th?

a reply to: network dude

Would any of this have happened if Israeli Russians, Ukrainians etc came to Palestine over a British tank on 1948 to massacre 200 unarmed civilians who were taken as prisoners, rape 16 years old girls and use flamethrowers to burn Palestinian civilians alive AKA Tantura massacre

a reply to: network dude

would any of this have happened if HAMAS has not killed 1400 civilians in Israel on October 7th?

No, this situation would not have happened the way it did

Can you elaborate?

What is the actual point you're trying to make?

originally posted by: Mawdano

Two hospitals shut down amid a warning from WHO that more premature bodies will die. These actions from Israel are the War Crimes and genocide of Palestine.

OK...why are they not using generators.. My point is we really do not know the truth and in a month or so we will know better, but right now there is a ton of propaganda that people accept as the truth. You don't think Hamas loves the fake that the hospital is above their main HQ? You don't think they want all these stories to come out, you don't think they push as they can?

a reply to: Mawdano

A fair question