If you support the call for Israel to offer ceasefire, then you support Hamas.

a reply to: Spiramirabilis

Hate exists everywhere - in all cultures....

Very true and something we all should remind ourselves of at times.

But how many of those hate filled groups have the power, control and influence that Hamas and several other like-minded groups in that particular region of the world have?

a reply to: Spiramirabilis

Nope.

There’s a difference between a society that has an undesirable element that acts out and a society that ingrains that acting out into a cultural and religious norm.

originally posted by: Freeborn
a reply to: Spiramirabilis

Hate exists everywhere - in all cultures....

Very true and something we all should remind ourselves of at times.

But how many of those hate filled groups have the power, control and influence that Hamas and several other like-minded groups in that particular region of the world have?

Exactly as much hate and power as the traumas of mass-murdering innocent families can generate, which, as we are seeing, is an enormous amount, and soon USA will likely be drawn into it as victims of violence as a result of the revenge-fuel trauma, and then the US will be drawn into an even more costly War on Terror al a HAMAS.

a reply to: BiothermalReactor

So, name some of those hate-filled groups outside of the Middle East or Africa who have the same sort of power, control and influence that Hamas has.

Please, I'm genuinely interested in your response - for once.

a reply to: Freeborn

Hi Freeborn

I'm just about to leave here for the night

But how many of those hate filled groups have the power, control and influence that Hamas and several other like-minded groups in that particular region of the world have?

Don't make me start sending you clippings and podcasts :-)

Hamas has a cult of personality thing going - at least this is how it appears to me. Disagreeing with Hamas is a bit like disagreeing with Stalin. I'm not saying there aren't willing supporters. I am saying that like with everything, the less we speak in absolutes the more we can begin to understand the situation. Israel doesn't speak with one voice, Netanyahu had reason to manipulate this to his advantage...money, regional politics

Where do we actually start? I don't know - and that's the truth

a reply to: Freeborn

What's the point in naming names when innocent people are being slaughtered by the thousands and disinformation is being shoved down our throats so we can just let this happen?

Israel hits Gaza Strip with the equivalent of two nuclear bombs

Hence, trauma-fueled revenge.

a reply to: BiothermalReactor

Still no solutions.
Still no suggestions how Hamas can be removed and who could replace them.

Absolutely nothing constructive or of merit.

Just waffle, bollocks, deflection and smoke in mirrors.

originally posted by: NorthOS

originally posted by: BiothermalReactor
a reply to: NorthOS

Did all the children in Gaza perpetuate the Oct 7th attacks?

Did any of them sit it out?

Can you name a war where everyone on every side was all in?

I’ll hazard to say that an society where multiple generations of six and seven year olds are trained to hate, kill, and kidnap their perceived enemy you’re bound to get a good turnout.

Do all those children get executed at the end of the war, to cleanse the social mind of the defeated populace?

originally posted by: Freeborn
a reply to: BiothermalReactor

Still no solutions.
Still no suggestions how Hamas can be removed and who could replace them.

Absolutely nothing constructive or of merit.

Just waffle, bollocks, deflection and smoke in mirrors.

This isn't the thread for that.

This thread is for answering the question that follows the same broken logic as the title of the thread, which is disinformation, pure and simple:


Would Israel be terrorist supporters for calling for a ceasefire with terrorists?

a reply to: Spiramirabilis

Hi there, really pleased you're back posting again.

Sure there are terrorist organisations elsewhere around the world.
There are far, far too many hate-filled groups of all types of races, creeds and political persuasions.

But with the power, control and influence Hamas has in Gaza or other like-minded groups like The Taliban etc have?

Netanyahu is a politician and like all politicians he will have somehow manipulated events after the October terrorist attacks for his own purposes, show me a politician who wouldn't have - not saying I agree with that its just how politicians operate.

But how else was he, and by extension Israel, supposed to react?
How are Israel going to ensure Hamas are not capable of carrying out another attack like October 7th?
Who can replace Hamas as representatives of and for the Palestinian people?

I have no desire to see thousands of people killed but no-one has yet came up with any other viable alternative as to how Israel should have reacted and how they can rid themselves of the constant, ongoing and endless threat Hamas pose.

a reply to: BiothermalReactor

Which thread is then?

Because you haven't offered up any solutions or answers in any of the multitude of threads you've posted your repetitive, agenda driven obstinance and wilful ignorance.

I'd have a modicum of respect for your point of view if you at least tried to offer something, anything, up in support....but you haven't.
For all your wowling and whining you have absolutely zero to offer.

originally posted by: BiothermalReactor

originally posted by: NorthOS

originally posted by: BiothermalReactor
a reply to: NorthOS

Did all the children in Gaza perpetuate the Oct 7th attacks?

Did any of them sit it out?

Can you name a war where everyone on every side was all in?

I’ll hazard to say that an society where multiple generations of six and seven year olds are trained to hate, kill, and kidnap their perceived enemy you’re bound to get a good turnout.

Do all those children get executed at the end of the war, to cleanse the social mind of the defeated populace?

No, but you do point out the issue here.

Saying “no more war” is similar to saying “no more oil”. It’s great in theory but an opposite of historical and contemporary realities.

We may get there one day when viable solutions come along but like oil, the end of war overnight will only crash civilization.

There are groups like Hamas that could care less about the rules and will eat the peaceful countries up.

I don’t believe it’s reasonable to expect Israel to take that big a hit just because we arbitrarily decide to end war here and now.

It’s a tragedy but this war isn’t any different to past wars.

originally posted by: NorthOS

originally posted by: BiothermalReactor

originally posted by: NorthOS

originally posted by: BiothermalReactor
a reply to: NorthOS

Did all the children in Gaza perpetuate the Oct 7th attacks?

Did any of them sit it out?

Can you name a war where everyone on every side was all in?

I’ll hazard to say that an society where multiple generations of six and seven year olds are trained to hate, kill, and kidnap their perceived enemy you’re bound to get a good turnout.

Do all those children get executed at the end of the war, to cleanse the social mind of the defeated populace?

No, but you do point out the issue here.

Saying “no more war” is similar to saying “no more oil”. It’s great in theory but an opposite of historical and contemporary realities.

-equivalence fallacy detected-

It's only similar in wording. The meanings of the nouns in each of those quotations are absolutely different.

It’s a tragedy but this war isn’t any different to past wars.

-equivalence fallacy detected-

Every war is different from every single other war ever. No event is repeated twice in the universe. We've already explained this earlier in the thread, if it was entirely read, because this is particle physics, does history disobey particle physics, what makes us human etc etc..

a reply to: BiothermalReactor

Whoosh.
Ya missed it.

ETA: or you’re just playing games.

a reply to: Spiramirabilis

I enjoy learning new things, yes, but don't have spotify installed on this fire tablet.

Got a title for me and I'll find it.

a reply to: tanstaafl

Thats a very radical position. I don't condemn all of Islam. Fundamentalism is about control not spirit or living a moral life.

originally posted by: MoreCoyoteAngels
a reply to: tanstaafl

Thats a very radical position.

Yes, isn't it? Kind-of like supporting waging war on an entire people for the acts of some who have usurped positions of power through the fear and ignorance of the rest of the people, and use those same people as human shields... isn't it?

I don't condemn all of Islam.

Islam is responsible for the attacks on Israel.

80-90% if Muslims, even the ones who call themselves 'peaceful', actually support the acts of the radical jihadists - because they are commanded to do so by their pedophile 'prophet'.

Fundamentalism is about control not spirit or living a moral life.

Whose morality?

originally posted by: NorthOS
a reply to: BiothermalReactor

Whoosh.
Ya missed it.

ETA: or you’re just playing games.

Would Israel be supporting terrorists if they call for a ceasefire?

It's a very simple question that follows the logic.

a reply to: Freeborn

Ok, but...

Would Israel be supporting terrorism if they call for a ceasefire with terrorists?

a reply to: Freeborn

Thank you - it's really good to see you, and see you're still here too Freeborn

But how else was he, and by extension Israel, supposed to react?

Honestly, it's understandable to the point of being expected. The expectation part of this is what I focus on after the horror. I'm someone living on the outside of this story. It's easier for me to have a view on this that appears dispassionate

So, this is ATS. I usually avoid conspiracy theory (somehow) but this situation has big plot holes in it

This might be hard to believe but I've read almost no news stories with any details in them. I just couldn't

What I've been doing is reading or listening to people discussing things from their perspective. CIA, analysts, diplomats, politicians, journalists, philosophers and religious folk, historians and of course military views. Jews and Muslims, Muslims and Jews. Americans, Europeans, Palestinians and Israelis

It's helped some to see people as people, but the one thing that stands out to me is the confusion everyone seems to be experiencing about why. Most people have a simple go to explanation, but then the conversation goes deeper and they just dont know

Who can replace Hamas as representatives of and for the Palestinian people?

That's a question. Who can replace Putin? Or Netanyahu? Attitudes and desires and worldviews will have to change along with conditions that allow for change in the first place. Allowing for change is the main hurdle I think

I have no desire to see thousands of people killed but no-one has yet came up with any other viable alternative as to how Israel should have reacted and how they can rid themselves of the constant, ongoing and endless threat Hamas pose.

Of course you don't. Nobody does except those that benefit from things staying the way they are

I know people hate the idea of a ceasefire. It's counterintuitive and seems weak and stupid

It might be stupid. But the alternative is putting an entire people in harm's way indefinitely. To gain what?

If it was my family stuck with Hamas and Israel at the door, I would be praying for mercy and time

Hamas is done. They know that. They sacrificed their own people - for what? This is the mystery

Time is needed to allow Hamas to rot from the inside out. Give the Palestinian people something to hope for. Help them

Israel needs to clean it's own house

In the absence of a plan that would actually gain something real the only choice is to do the right thing now

Past this I've got nothing