Israeli Politician Moshe Feiglin argues Gaza needs to turn Into Dresden! Annihilate Gaza now!

a reply to: Leviathan4

War tends to bring out the worst in people.

Pretty sure that the IDF has no plans to nuke Gaza, though.

Which would be the only way to do that.

You need to get more of a grip on actual reality rather than just screaming "Israel BAD!!!!!!".

Like, constantly?

a reply to: Leviathan4

www.dailymail.co.uk... srael-beatable-changing-Middle-East.html

"Hamas vows to repeat October 7 attacks and bring about the 'annihilation' of Israel while cynically saying it 'did not want to hurt civilians' as it slaughtered 1,400 people 'but there were complications on the ground'"

You want a ceasefire with folk like this?!??!!!!

originally posted by: Oldcarpy2
a reply to: Leviathan4

War tends to bring out the worst in people.

Pretty sure that the IDF has no plans to nuke Gaza, though.

Which would be the only way to do that.

You need to get more of a grip on actual reality rather than just screaming "Israel BAD!!!!!!".

Like, constantly?

And... Show additionally the real face of extremists in the Israeli side. It's not only Hamas that is responsible for this mess despite the attempts by the Israeli Government and their propaganda.

They have been engaging in the worst kind of rhetoric and acting upon it with the killings of thousands of innocent civilians.

The President of Israel said the entire nation of Palestine is responsible for what is happening.

Netanyahou appealed to the old testament to argue for the defeat and destruction of the enemy.

Another politician a few days ago argued that the children of Gaza have brought it upon themselves.

Galit Distel Atbaryan another minister said that Gaza has to be erased from the face of the earth.

This guy called for the total destruction and annihilation of Gaza (topic of the thread)

They are just lunatics.

a reply to: Leviathan4

Any comment let alone condemnation about Hamas vows as posted above?

originally posted by: Oldcarpy2
a reply to: Leviathan4

Any comment let alone condemnation about Hamas vows as posted above?

You want more condemnation of Hamas? But has this not been done since the beginning of this story?

Same can be argued about the State of Israel given that many of its officials have made incitements to genocide and they are responsible at this point.

The idea that Israel is unaccountable and not subject to international law is a fantasy.

a reply to: Leviathan4

No. Just your opinion as to how you might have a peace with Hamas when they rule it out?

originally posted by: Oldcarpy2
a reply to: Leviathan4

No. Just your opinion as to how you might have a peace with Hamas when they rule it out?

I don't think any of the two sides has ruled out peace. But this is the point in time where one enslaved nation, the Palestinians, are 'represented' by Hamas on one side (the other half is not) and the Masters (Israel) is represented by some lunatics (supposed to be a democracy) where the leader appealed to the Old Testament to argue war and destruction to its enemies.

a reply to: Leviathan4

You have repeatedly stated that your only concern is for Israel to stop all the indiscriminate killing.

However, in this one phrase. "....where one enslaved nation, the Palestinians, are 'represented' by Hamas on one side (the other half is not) and the Masters (Israel) is represented by some lunatics...." you are quite clearly showing a pre-determined bias and a belief that the Palestinian people are somehow an enslaved people ruled over by lunatic Israeli's.

So that would suggest to me that you had at least sympathy, possibly even outright support, for the Palestinian cause prior to the recent Hamas acts of terrorism that sparked this recent outbreak of conflict.

originally posted by: Freeborn
a reply to: Leviathan4

You have repeatedly stated that your only concern is for Israel to stop all the indiscriminate killing.

However, in this one phrase. "....where one enslaved nation, the Palestinians, are 'represented' by Hamas on one side (the other half is not) and the Masters (Israel) is represented by some lunatics...." you are quite clearly showing a pre-determined bias and a belief that the Palestinian people are somehow an enslaved people ruled over by lunatic Israeli's.

So that would suggest to me that you had at least sympathy, possibly even outright support, for the Palestinian cause prior to the recent Hamas acts of terrorism that sparked this recent outbreak of conflict.

No I don't show a predetermined bias.
I am stating facts. Palestine is an enslaved nation either Jewish people and the audience here like it or not, that's the reality. There has to be some context when these conversations happen and you seem to have forgotten the context completely or the fact that most of us (including myself) are not Arabs or Jews.

And you need to not misrepresent what it has been said. There are some lunatics on both sides who seem to be leading the show. Hamas and the Israeli Government.

Israel can do something much better and that's to secure its border. The reason we had this story on the 7th of October was due to Hamas being able to penetrate the defenses. If the fence was secured that would have never happened. Once the fence is secured Hamas can do nothing and Israel will have no excuse bombing innocent civilians.

I haven't said anything about sympathies in any of the threads. But I clearly said many times the need for ceasefire and peace.

Even Biden a few days ago spoke about peace and a two state solution. It seems the plan is already written but it has been going slowly. No matter what Israel does the US has probably given the green light for a Palestinian State. It's against what Israel wants but the situation can't deteriorate further.

Speaking of Gaza, I don't think there is any reasonable person who thinks Gaza isn't a big concentration camp. Unless Netflix has changed the perception of people...

a reply to: Leviathan4

You do know that Israel has been a long time proponent of a Two State Solution don't you?
They signed an agreement with the PLO in the 90's but as soon as Hamas came into power they denounced it.

A Two State Solution relies on Palestinians recognising Israel's right to exist, something Hamas point blank refuse to accept.
'From the river to the sea' means that from the River Jordan to The Mediterranean Sea should be cleared of all Jews and shall become an Islamic/Arab country - quite the opposite of a Two State Solution.

Hamas refuses to compromise on this.

As for blaming the Hamas terrorist attacks on Israeli failing to maintain the defensive wall, well, that just wreaks of desperation tactics and if anything proves that it would be impossible for the two sides to peacefully co-exist as long as Hamas are a live threat.

originally posted by: Freeborn
a reply to: Leviathan4

You do know that Israel has been a long time proponent of a Two State Solution don't you?
They signed an agreement with the PLO in the 90's but as soon as Hamas came into power they denounced it.

A Two State Solution relies on Palestinians recognising Israel's right to exist, something Hamas point blank refuse to accept.
'From the river to the sea' means that from the River Jordan to The Mediterranean Sea should be cleared of all Jews and shall become an Islamic/Arab country - quite the opposite of a Two State Solution.

Hamas refuses to compromise on this.

As for blaming the Hamas terrorist attacks on Israeli failing to maintain the defensive wall, well, that just wreaks of desperation tactics and if anything proves that it would be impossible for the two sides to peacefully co-exist as long as Hamas are a live threat.

It's obvious that Hamas isn't the only problem in this case. Both sides have great responsibility for what has happened so far. There are many Israeli elements who don't want an Independent Palestinian State and a two State Solution.

Biden said that looking forward there should be a two state solution, displaying this way the US Policy no matter what Hamas or Israeli Officials say.

I am not blaming Israelis for what Hamas did on the 7th of October. I am blaming Israeli Security Officials for their inability and incompetence to secure their border that has never been penetrated this way before as far as I know.

If the fence was secured that would have never happened. Once the fence is secured Hamas can do nothing and Israel will have no excuse bombing innocent civilians. Hamas has very limited power regardless of their ideology. They can do nothing much if the fence is secured.

'From the river to the sea' it's a slogan often used by Arabs and Palestinians. True. But it's also true that Israelis use language and rhetoric that is explicit and calls for the total destruction and annihilation of Gaza. Several politicians lately engaged in this rhetoric.

a reply to: Leviathan4

Who the # cares what Joe Biden says, the Two State Solution has been on the table for years.

Israel supports a Two State Solution and agreed a deal with the PLO.
Once Hamas were voted into power they immediately denounced it and categorically refuse to consider a Two State Solution as that would include recognising and accepting Israel as an independent state.
Hamas steadfastly insists on standing by its resolve and determination to bring about a Jew free Palestinian state stretching from The River Jordan to The Mediterranean Sea....and by using whatever mean necessary to bring this about.

The only reason I am repeating this at length is because I'm not sure if you think The Two State Solution is something new and groundbreaking?
It isn't, not by any imagination.
The only thing that has prevented it from being implemented is Hamas intransigence and their determination to wipe out the Israeli state.

As for the fence?
Wow.
The only people to blame were the terrorists who decided to break through it and kill innocent people for committing the crime of being Jews.
In other threads, maybe this one too, you have likened the Palestinians existence in Gaza as similar to a concentration camp.
Then you blame Israeli's for not maintaining the fence that confined Palestinians well enough.
If that's not contradictory I don't know what is.

But none of this would matter if Hamas would consider peaceful coexistence.

a reply to: Lysergic

it wont happen because the gravy train needs to keep rolling for another 1000 years
regardless of how many innocent people get slaughtered

originally posted by: Freeborn
a reply to: Leviathan4

Who the # cares what Joe Biden says, the Two State Solution has been on the table for years.

Israel supports a Two State Solution and agreed a deal with the PLO.
Once Hamas were voted into power they immediately denounced it and categorically refuse to consider a Two State Solution as that would include recognising and accepting Israel as an independent state.
Hamas steadfastly insists on standing by its resolve and determination to bring about a Jew free Palestinian state stretching from The River Jordan to The Mediterranean Sea....and by using whatever mean necessary to bring this about.

The only reason I am repeating this at length is because I'm not sure if you think The Two State Solution is something new and groundbreaking?
It isn't, not by any imagination.
The only thing that has prevented it from being implemented is Hamas intransigence and their determination to wipe out the Israeli state.

As for the fence?
Wow.
The only people to blame were the terrorists who decided to break through it and kill innocent people for committing the crime of being Jews.
In other threads, maybe this one too, you have likened the Palestinians existence in Gaza as similar to a concentration camp.
Then you blame Israeli's for not maintaining the fence that confined Palestinians well enough.
If that's not contradictory I don't know what is.

But none of this would matter if Hamas would consider peaceful coexistence.

It's obvious that Hamas isn't the only problem in this case. Both sides have great responsibility for what has happened so far. There are many Israeli elements who don't want an Independent Palestinian State and a two State Solution. You seem to have forgotten this part when you try to blame only Hamas and the Palestinians for the failure of the plans for a two state solution.

Biden said that looking forward there should be a two state solution, displaying this way the US Policy no matter what Hamas or Israeli Officials say. Of course this isn't something new but we have had enough with this story for decades. The US-Allies and the Arab world will have to assist Israelis and Palestinians to find a solution.

I am not blaming Israelis for what Hamas did on the 7th of October. I am blaming Israeli Security Officials for their inability and incompetence to secure their border that has never been penetrated this way before as far as I know.

If the fence was secured that would have never happened. Once the fence is secured Hamas can do nothing and Israel will have no excuse bombing innocent civilians. Hamas has very limited power regardless of their ideology. They can do nothing much if the fence is secured.

'From the river to the sea' it's a slogan often used by Arabs and Palestinians. True. But it's also true that Israelis use language and rhetoric that is explicit and calls for the total destruction and annihilation of Gaza. Several politicians lately engaged in this rhetoric as discussed in many threads.


No it's not contradictory (as I said in another thread) to say they need to secure the fence given that the fence exists. That doesn't imply Gaza isn't a concentration camp. As it is and everyone knows it. The fence wasn't created because of Hamas. At no stage I have advocated for a fence or for Gaza to be a concentration camp. But for the time being all they needed to do is to secure their fence. That was all.

And let me correct you again. The two state solution has failed because of both sides.

a reply to: Leviathan4

The fence was pretty secure. Just not against bulldozers and explosives.

And yes, you do blame Israel for October 7th.

a reply to: Leviathan4

Biden said that looking forward there should be a two state solution, displaying this way the US Policy no matter what Hamas or Israeli Officials say.

Donald Trump proposed a peace plan based on the Two State Solution which Netanyahu agreed to back in 2020.
I don't think it was perfect, far from it, but it was a clear sign that Israel wanted to peacefully coexist.
Hamas refused to even consider it because it meant recognising Israel's right to exist - something they point blank refuse to do - and they would need to renounce the use of arms - again, something they refuse to do.

I don't know what you think the US, other Arab countries and organisations like the UN/EU etc can do to try make Palestinians enter into serious discussions about peaceful coexistence and the Two State Solution that hasn't been tried before.

Any suggestions?

If the fence was secured that would have never happened. Once the fence is secured Hamas can do nothing and Israel will have no excuse bombing innocent civilians.

Other than regular missile attacks from locations situated near or inside civilian areas etc like schools/hospitals and the like.
A few suicide bombers here and there.
The odd drive-by shooting and IED.

The fence wasn't created because of Hamas.

Why was it created?
As far as I can tell it was created in an attempt to prevent terrorist attacks.

The simple fact of the matter is that if Hamas weren't passionately intent on carrying out terrorist attacks against the Israeli state and its population then none of this would be happening.

originally posted by: Oldcarpy2
a reply to: Leviathan4

The fence was pretty secure. Just not against bulldozers and explosives.

And yes, you do blame Israel for October 7th.

Hmmm no really. You made this point at another thread and it was quite silly. You make it here too.

From a few posts back.

Iam not blaming Israelis for what Hamas did on the 7th of October. I am blaming Israeli Security Officials for their inability and incompetence to secure their border that has never been penetrated this way before as far as I know.

Just once more to be sure.
Again your argument is refuted. I lost count how many times I have been refuting these random arguments ...

a reply to: Leviathan4

"I lost count how many times I have been repeating my random arguments ."

There. Fixed for you.

You have refuted nothing.

Repeated, yes.

originally posted by: Oldcarpy2
a reply to: Leviathan4

"I lost count how many times I have been repeating my random arguments ."

There. Fixed for you.

You have refuted nothing.

Repeated, yes.

You made an claim a few posts back that I blame Israel for October the 7th.

This is from my posts above

Iam not blaming Israelis for what Hamas did on the 7th of October. I am blaming Israeli Security Officials for their inability and incompetence to secure their border that has never been penetrated this way before as far as I know.

Just once more to be sure.
Again your argument has been refuted....

originally posted by: Oldcarpy2
a reply to: Leviathan4

"I lost count how many times I have been repeating my random arguments ."

There. Fixed for you.

You have refuted nothing.

Repeated, yes.

Have you condemned the genocidal rhetoric of Netanyahou yet who appealed to the old testament to argue for destruction of the enemy... It's similar to this one covered in the thread.