Is America finished as a an empire

a reply to: nickyw

beat the monarchy lol thanks for the laugh.

Happy to oblige.

It's rather a complicated convoluted affair or so I'm led to believe.

Simon Whistler has some interesting things to say pertaining to the American Revolution and the time period in question.



As to how people look at it, probably in a few different ways, depending on perspective and one's feelings on the matter.

But there is seldom only one way of looking at things.

a reply to: andy06shake

can't avoid the fact that Paine was paid by the crown to write and share the ideas of freedom that led to both US and French revolutions, revolutions that left Britain as the sole hyper power nor avoid the fact the war of 1812 gave the 2nd British empire the merchant fleet to rule the world.

originally posted by: DAVID64
a reply to: musicismagic

Honestly, we are not in a good position.

We're dumping money and military equipment in to a proxy war in Ukraine and about to get involved in another Middle East fiasco.

We have illegals [ not to mention terrorists ] pouring over the border and the system is struggling to handle it.

Our military is not up to snuff because recruitment is way down, the top brass is more worried about drag queens and equity than an effective fighting force.

Inflation has families struggling to pay bills and keep food on the table.


If we elect leaders who keep us on this path, we are done. It may take another 20 years but we are done as a super power and China will roll right over us.

When you look at the emptying of both our oil reserves and military logistics, plus terrible economy, plunging military enlistment, toxic accidents, and food chain disasters…….. it just looks like Biden and crew are telling somebody “attack the US now ! It will never be easier than now !” A bunch of them have gotten big money for prepping us for the kill, and will probably fly right out of here to a safe haven somewhere. We’ve seen it with Marcos, Duvalier, and many others.

a reply to: nickyw

I don't think there is any avoiding the fact that both nations are intrinsically linked together.

Been that way for quite a while, and will continue to dance to the same to similar tune for the foreseeable future.

I always enjoy the history lessons all the same, kind of what makes ATS cool learning something new from other people.

originally posted by: musicismagic
I'm beginning to wonder about the true trojan horse that has the silent invasion in America and with the atrosion horse can open its doors to a silent invasion that people will totally be unexpected for.
Of course they will go for the weak-minded people in the bigger cities with no guns or are protection and so forth they will never ever try it to where the hillbillies have the rights of we are Americans and we will protect our rights at all costs.

But the sad part is if it all crumbles very quickly and I've mentioned this in my threads before within 24 hours America can really collapse.

My greatest worry is the nuclear power plants if the people that run them can't get to the power plants to shut them down what will actually happen.

In an odd sort of way, this could be the thing that creates two USA’s …… the states that are easily beat by the invaders, and those who aren’t. Some states have a lot of guns and/or military installations, and some have neither.
My bet is on TX, FL, the rest of the south, and the Midwest doing pretty well.
Sort of like Red Dawn. In that era they cast the Soviets and Cuba as the invaders, but today it’s probably China, Iran, cartels. Antifa and BLM and the trans army will be joining them.

a reply to: andy06shake

grew up fascinated by this stuff when I learnt the Norman families here are some of, if not the richest families in the last 1,000 years of world history.

a reply to: The2Billies


This is worth posting again.

blog.adw.org... ...

8 states of the rise and fall of civilizations
.

From bondage to spiritual growth – Great civilizations are formed in the crucible. ...... American culture was formed by the injustices that grew in colonial times. Sufferings and injustices cause—even force—spiritual growth. Suffering brings wisdom and demands a spiritual discipline that seeks justice and solutions.

From spiritual growth to great courage – Having been steeled in the crucible of suffering, courage and the ability to endure great sacrifice come forth. Anointed leaders emerge and people are summoned to courage and sacrifice (including loss of life) in order to create a better, more just world for succeeding generations. People who have little or nothing, also have little or nothing to lose and are often more willing to live for something more important than themselves and their own pleasure. A battle is begun, a battle requiring courage, discipline, and other virtues.

From courage to liberty – As a result of the courageous fight, the foe is vanquished and liberty and greater justice emerges. At this point a civilization comes forth, rooted in its greatest ideals. Many who led the battle are still alive, and the legacy of those who are not is still fresh. Heroism and the virtues that brought about liberty are still esteemed. The ideals that were struggled for during the years in the crucible are still largely agreed upon.

From liberty to abundance – Liberty ushers in greater prosperity, because a civilization is still functioning with the virtues of sacrifice and hard work. But then comes the first danger: abundance. Things that are in too great an abundance tend to weigh us down and take on a life of their own. ..... culture is living on the fumes of earlier sacrifices; its people become less and less willing to make such sacrifices. Ideals diminish in importance and abundance weighs down the souls of the citizens. The sacrifices, discipline, and virtues responsible for the thriving of the civilization are increasingly remote from the collective conscience; the enjoyment of their fruits becomes the focus.

From abundance to complacency – To be complacent means to be self-satisfied and increasingly unaware of serious trends that undermine health and the ability to thrive. Everything looks fine, so it must be fine. Yet foundations, resources, infrastructures, and necessary virtues are all crumbling. As virtues, disciplines, and ideals become ever more remote, those who raise alarms are labeled by the complacent as “killjoys” and considered extreme, harsh, or judgmental.

From complacency to apathy – The word apathy comes from the Greek and refers to a lack of interest in, or passion for, the things that once animated and inspired. Due to the complacency of the previous stage, the growing lack of attention to disturbing trends advances to outright dismissal. Many seldom think or care about the sacrifices of previous generations and lose a sense that they must work for and contribute to the common good. “Civilization” suffers the serious blow of being replaced by personalization and privatization in growing degrees. Working and sacrificing for others becomes more remote. Growing numbers becoming increasingly willing to live on the carcass of previous sacrifices. .... Hard work and self-discipline continue to erode.

From apathy to dependence – Increasing numbers of people lack the virtues and zeal necessary to work and contribute. The suffering and the sacrifices that built the culture are now a distant memory. As discipline and work increasingly seem “too hard,” dependence grows. The collective culture now tips in the direction of dependence. Suffering of any sort seems intolerable. But virtue is not seen as the solution. Having lived on the sacrifices of others for years, the civilization now insists that “others” must solve their woes. This ushers in growing demands for governmental, collective solutions. This in turns deepens dependence, as solutions move from personal virtue and local, family-based sacrifices to centralized ones.

From dependence back to bondage – As dependence increases, so does centralized power. Dependent people tend to become increasingly dysfunctional and desperate. Seeking a savior, they look to strong central leadership. But centralized power corrupts, and tends to usher in increasing intrusion by centralized power. Injustice and intrusion multiplies. But those in bondage know of no other solutions. Family and personal virtue (essential ingredients for any civilization) are now effectively replaced by an increasingly dark and despotic centralized control, hungry for more and more power. In this way, the civilization is gradually ended, because people in bondage no longer have the virtues necessary to fight.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: musicismagic

The nation is 247 years old ffs.

Relatively speaking still a baby empire wise in the grand scheme of recorded history.

It's teething and growing pains America is experiencing.

It is not the beginning of the end, but the end of the beginning your nation is contending with.

Nail on the head mate .

America is just getting started .

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: The2Billies

Sounds rather paranoid to me kind of reminiscent of the racially inflamed nonsense the likes of Trump is attempting to punt.

Mexico is not coming to get you, and point of fact without the workforce her immigrants provide on, off, and under the table, there would be a multitude of tasks and jobs that simply would not get done in your nation without them being there to do so.

Anyhoo again my bet is the USA will do just fine and will be around for quite some time to come.
And yet there you are, relatively intact, bar the division amongst your populace, and still kicking.

Where did you get your biased idea from.

I never said Mexico was coming to get us. I was referring to the middle eastern terrorists that have been documented illegally and successfully crossing our southern border. I was also referring to the nationalist Chinese that have been document illegally and successfully crossing our southern border. If thousands have been identified, how many are unidentified? I don't think it is paranoia after 9/11 which you are probably too young to remember. Also, China has made no bones about wanting to change the US into a Chinese style government that is sympathetic to the Chinese government's totalitarian oversight of the personal lives of all citizens at all times.

I have Hispanic first generation LEGAL immigrants in my immediate family. So you are way off base saying I hate my own family (Hispanics) and am racist against them. You are so into keeping Trump at the forefront of your mind to blame for everything and for opinions you don't like, it blinds you to your own prejudices.

Obviously you don't live in the US. The US is falling apart.
My brother-in-law has homeless encampments in his backyard in a good neighborhood that police refuse to make move.
The drive from the airport to visit my mother-in-law in a major Dem city is littered with huge piles of garbage under underpasses. Those underpasses are full of homeless camps, drugged out people with feces and urine everywhere.
When my daughter visited SF she and her kids had to walk around feces on the sidewalks of tourist areas.
Our close friends live in a major Dem city and they said the crime is so bad in their middle class neighborhood that they are afraid to even walk from their house to their car.
This is representative of what the US has become and is spreading nationally.

Government run public schools are actively teaching first graders and up how to masturbate. I think that is a huge immoral perversion. You may disagree but that is how I see it. Government run public schools are teaching middle school children not yet in puberty how to engage in LGBTQP+ sex and how to "fist" each other. I think that is a huge immoral perversion.

Women in prison are punished if they complain about being locked in a prison cell with a woman with a penis. PUNISHED. Document rape and pregnancies have occurred as a result. This is, in my opinion, also immoral. Women with penis' should only be locked in prison cells with other women with penis' or with a woman with a vagina who consents to them being in the cell with them.

Moral perversion abounds, one of the last vestiges of a dying empire. Prostitutes wearing nothing but G-strings and barely there pasties in high heels are walking around the streets of National City, CA in busy business areas openly soliciting. Police say the current, new laws mean they can not stop this behavior even in front of schools or little children. www.dailymail.co.uk...

Harvard students approve of Hamas behavior of killing babies, children, raping women in the street, and burning people alive and post their approval on social media in statements of support in letters. The future leaders of our nation are taught to approve of this behavior against people they deem politically incorrect.

The nation now has more debt than it can pay for if it took all the money from all the rich people in the US combined. The US has 129% more debt than it takes in annually. www.macrotrends.net...

Relatively intact is relative:
High crime
crumbling infrastructure
the US consumes more illegal drugs than any other nation on earth
suicide is the 4th leading cause of death in the US
the US has the highest infant/mother mortality rate of the 10 major industrialized nations

The US is on the verge of great change and it is not for the better and may end up like Rome with a tiny bit of it left.

California, Washington state, Oregon have strong secessionist movements.
Texas and Hawaii also have strong secessionist movements.
There are many states where the people want to leave the union and become their own country.

All is not well here, liberals are so obsessed with Trump they have let the nation become a cesspool of drugs, crime and immorality that many people want their states to abandon for the safety of their families and person.

Seems your writing indicates you might have a bad case of Trumpitis that you can't shake off and lingers in your system.

America was never an empire. However it was a super power. Our super power status is gone. We are broke. The wide open borders and millions upon millions of illegals has broke us financially, and 'woke' is breaking us culturally.

a reply to: The2Billies

I never said you hated anyone The2Billies, so there is that.

America will be just fine by my guess.

And where i hail from is no secret, it doesn't mean I'm not entitled to my opinion, same as yourself, which is also rather obvious.

As to whats lingering in my system, i imagine that would be last night's Kebab.

Anyhoo you have yourself a good'yin.

I do not think that the United States of America is an Empire. It is however one of the last colonial powers. It has 5 territories/colonies under its control.

But the saddest thing of all of that, is this translates out with 3,623,895 citizens who have no representation in congress, can join the US military, in most cases, pay federal taxes, follow the federal laws of the United States, yet have no representation in congress or any sort of say in who gets to be President of the United States.

a reply to: Silcone Synapse

A lot of these events were also "wished for" in the famous neo con PNAC document-remember that?

a reply to: musicismagic

Empires eventually fall. I don't think it will happen with America within our lifetimes. But this may certainly be the start of it.

originally posted by: FlyersFan
America was never an empire. However it was a super power. Our super power status is gone. We are broke. The wide open borders and millions upon millions of illegals has broke us financially, and 'woke' is breaking us culturally.

first British empire was the joining of England Scotland Ireland and Wales post civil wars, in that context the USA post civil war became a similar Empire.

the usa has tried at being a republic like Rome accepting tributes from its vassals now its on the cusp of evolving into being a true empire only like Rome its also liable to tear itself into parts as the Roman Empire did..

this happened to not just the British empire in 1924 but also new liberalism, new imperialism and new colonialism.

the EU is also following that track in trying to evolve into an empire as the united states of Europe.. and that sets the tone for the crash to come..

a roman republic/Roman empire, Roman Christendom, like British empire/British federation can only exist and thrive when the gov is not making waging war against its own a primary task as the west is it also can not debauch its money. its culture, or its morals fort some new fad..

the usa is the western empire and its made all the worst choices for survivals.. international law is only the USA with a big stick..

we are in 1924 where the true legitimacy of the progressive new liberal empire died.

All Empires rise and fall.
All Empires ebb and flow.

I don't think the USA is about to fall just yet.

And look around....who's side would you rather be on?

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: musicismagic

The nation is 247 years old ffs.

Relatively speaking still a baby empire wise in the grand scheme of recorded history.

It's teething and growing pains America is experiencing.

It is not the beginning of the end, but the end of the beginning your nation is contending with.

how old is the nation of Britain? is not much newer than 300 years old.. queen Victoria was its first monarch.. the empire lasted from Victoria to elizabeth2.. the best part of only 150 years.. empire are not these 1,000 year entities power highs look to be around 80 to 100.. the structure that get you there is.. its what survives the fall..

in context the earl of Arundel holds the oldest extant title dates from 1141 so Charlies3/4 (depending on who you see as charlie3) title is much newer, harry might be duke of Sussex but its much newer, mostly because its a jinxed title, Megan is the first wife since Edith(1086AD) one of the wealthiest magnates in England.

what I'm saying is age is relative.. the British empire is actually a very short-lived period pax Romana lasted only 200 years.. pax Britannia only lasted 100 years, pax American is coming to an end.. in relative terms and considering tech advances thats still an impressive time the next one will be even shorter..

not so much timewave zero but tech advances speeds up change..

a reply to: The2Billies

Many times people think it's dollar for dollar and forget all about the; Forex.

When a nation does not invest in it's people; It has gone rogue to them in representation and it is just such an empire that falls.

It is often forgotten that; The Constitution is a combination of all still existing current and previous empires and then omitting all that failed in them or will in authoring it... Each of the 50 states; Has it's own Constitution aside from the; One as a guide and it's when... Those states make sanction that; Is not federally legal or when the states do not peacefully protest, what the federal shouldn't make illegal; Is what makes the population suffer the most.

If the US pulled all its money from all out lying lands then; What debt? That is something it has ever yet to do and yet that's typically what EVERY other country does even if they are not in conflict.

Seeing how the UK is going after artists etc around the world in trying to balance out their accounts? Then it is clear that they are suffering and the Brexit from the Euro was a sign that they needed to pull back Greece had aluminum as a currency standard and declared they couldn't extend and went bankrupt several years back.

It's just something to think about when people say China has so much money and they do not extend it beyond their borders just like the rest in war time or not. Russia is feeling the burn having extended theirs across their border and what used to be the soviet socialist republics were being ignored in doing so leaving them wide open for what the OP is discussing or speaking about.

The Middle East has for a very long time been a sort of; Pay Peter to rob Paul in an effort to keep their spiritual hands clean; Such a thing gets old after awhile... Knowing that; That reign/rule can't really exist without an Imam(pimp) fanning the flames away from themselves. Not letting it to implode in on itself; Is what humanitarian work/aid is all about.

a reply to: nickyw

how old is the nation of Britain?

Well Scotland, ruled from London since 1603 far as im aware.

And formally joined England and Wales in 1707.

Which was the beginnings of the United Kingdom of Great Britain, or so I'm led to believe

Also the adjective "British" arose around about that time period.

Age may indeed be relative empire-wise, but the UK is not going anywhere anytime soon.

Any more than America is likely to disappear, even if our empire did get somewhat flushed down the lavvy pan.

Civilisations rise and fall, such is the state of the world.

That being said there have been 63 monarchs of Britain spread over a period of approximately 1200 years.

In the likes of Europe, the monarchies of Denmark stretch back before the 10th century.

As far as i can determine our way of life is not about to disappear and the empire in which we exist now more of the global economic sort, given the distinct fact that the nations of the globe are interconnected and reliant on one another where continued existence is concerned in ways that realistically cannot be torn apart if we want to survive.

Technology connects us and brings us together as much as it sets us apart by my guess.

originally posted by: DAVID64
a reply to: musicismagic

No disrespect, but shouldn't you be more worried about Japan ?

I know you're an American, but you've been living in Japan for a long time. If you're that worried, get back here and help.

That makes no sense. Coming back here is dangerous right now, but this is also a "What-about-ism." He can't be concerned with America for people he knows and potentially family?

Come on; there is nothing genuine about this post; it has nothing to do with the message and should be moderated for being off topic.

On topic;

I think you're supposition is correct. The silent invasion and the willful ignorance of our infrastructure falling apart. Blaming acts of war and terror on things like "apathy" and "negligence" when it's on purpose and not "negligent." I'm talking about the train derailments, food processing, the cows being killed, the chickens going on fire.

Meanwhile we bus migrants in illegal through the open boarder whilst funding proxy wars in Ukraine and now in Israel. Inflation is at all time highs while wages stagnate and Biden is up there swearing that we can fund it all; when we can't even take care of the people here... BRICS is gaining traction; Nato is stretched thin, China is postering for Taiwan.

I mean, yeah -- it could collapse in a day. Our power grid is fragile, our boarders are open, our food supply and banking systems are in free fall; excess mortality is up; fertility and new births is down.

It's coming, it's not a maybe. I would love to be wrong, but I'm not; and that's the scary part.