Representative Republicanism IS Fascism

I do not intend to trigger anyones delicacies with my choice of words. I am not attributing neither positive nor negative to the 'structure' of "fascism". I have, for a long time now, tried to look at these human conceived "constructs" from a blank slate. I have talked about reality vs human conceptions in previous posts (solicitation: ATS - You may never look at America the same after reading Pt. 2

I have also talked about "fascism" in depth in the previous thread that predated the one linked above (next solicitation: ATS - You may never look at America the same after reading Pt. 1. To refresh, a brief quote from my article:

Maybe we should talk about the Fasces. The word, as mentioned before, comes from the Roman word for "Bundle". These "bundles" were carried by lictors. Lictors were civil servants in Rome whom acted as bodyguards to the wealthy. Romulus was the first to appoint 12 lictors who'd attend to him. Roman lictors were responsible for following their patrons everywhere, from the house to the bathrooms, carrying their "bundle" of sticks/fasces. Lictors had a duty and authority to carry out arrests and punishment. They COULD, at their masters command, arrest Roman citizens and either beat them with the bundle portion or decapitate with the axe portion.

Lets translate this all to the modern day, while having a indifferent opinion on modern day perversions of words. Lictors in the Roman era were essentially the representatives to wealthy land owners who had stake in the Roman Republic. Representatives are representative of individuals who have stake in the American government through citizenship. Not that citizenship grants you a right to vote, but grants you the ability to vote in your local governance (country, state, locality). *going off on a tangent here but still somewhat relevant to the conversation, I think people who call themselves "sovereign citizens" are funny. You cant be sovereign if you're a citizen....but anyway, back to the show*

Who made up the legislative/senate branch of the Roman Republic? The Patricians.Who were the patricians? Patricians were wealthy land owners that, together, made up the entirety of Roman land. And the lictors, who carried the fasces, represented the patrician, and carried out their orders and their will.

What is Americas motto? E Pluribus Unum. Out of many...One.

Here is the United States Senate logo:


en.wikipedia.org...

And here is a picture of the legislative chamber of the United States republic:



Many nations have mimiced the roman republic ways, and it's telling from historical fact of their usage of the fasces logo.



^All flags above are Republican era flags for their respected countries. Top two are "Bureau of National Guard and Republic of France Coat of Arms"

And don't you forget...The defender of the Republic...The man himself that kept the 'Republic' alive.



Fasces make good arm rests for that impressive monument.

Good political comedy there.
The word is Fascii , not Fasces .
And that is the arms and stand of Lincoln's chair.
You didn't really expect them to use thin legs when holding up that kinda weight .
Gosh .

a reply to: JimmyNeutr0n

Your title states --> "Representative Republicanism IS Fascism" (capital on the IS)
And then you say --> "I do not intend to trigger anyones delicacies with my choice of words. I am not attributing neither positive nor negative to the 'structure' of "fascism"."

I'm not triggered lol, I just think it's funny, that is the level of hypocrisy.
It would almost be like me starting a thread title of -->"Some Democrats are Smarter Than Others, But They're All Stupid"
And then follow that up with an opening line of "I do not intend to trigger anyone's delicacies with my choice of words. I am not attributing neither positive nor negative to the 'structure' of the word "stupid"."

You might want to choose better wording lol

Cheers - Dave

I don’t understand how your point is being made WHATSOEVER…

The Roman empire dominated the world 2,000 years ago and left its influence on the world? ... you don't say.

No. No it’s not.

Cute bundle of sticks story though.

originally posted by: Gothmog
Good political comedy there.
The word is Fascii , not Fasces .
And that is the arms and stand of Lincoln's chair.
You didn't really expect them to use thin legs when holding up that kinda weight .
Gosh .

I was under the impression:

"fasces" was Vulgar Latin;
"fascio" was Italian?

You may be more inclined in etymology though.

originally posted by: bobs_uruncle
a reply to: JimmyNeutr0n

Your title states --> "Representative Republicanism IS Fascism" (capital on the IS)
And then you say --> "I do not intend to trigger anyones delicacies with my choice of words. I am not attributing neither positive nor negative to the 'structure' of "fascism"."

I'm not triggered lol, I just think it's funny, that is the level of hypocrisy.
It would almost be like me starting a thread title of -->"Some Democrats are Smarter Than Others, But They're All Stupid"
And then follow that up with an opening line of "I do not intend to trigger anyone's delicacies with my choice of words. I am not attributing neither positive nor negative to the 'structure' of the word "stupid"."

You might want to choose better wording lol

Cheers - Dave

Like I said in my OP, I do not attribute negative or positive to a word perverted by the modern day. And like I said, I did not mean to offend or trigger. Seems I did so. And I figured I would do so much by attributing everyones beloved form of government to a dirty word, as I can see by the comments that have not refuted anything mentioned other than triggering impulse responses.

With the minds here on ATS, I could imagine such intelligent people being faced with a conundrum that the idea "fascism" and "republicanism" are the same, because you've been perverted with false understandings and realistically decades old WW2 propaganda. This experience is called being "red-pilled," prompting a profound shift in ones perspective, arguably revealing a more authentic worldview.

Truth always shines in the dark. I apologize if you think "fascism" is a bad word, and by me highlighting *IS* was an issue for you. To say the least, I was not surprised at the responses. Love you all

as i see it attributing a modern political idea born in the 20th century with the roman empire is literally no different from the kings and queens of england claiming to be descended from king arthur it's all BS to create fake history.

Americans with virtually zero history seem the most prone to this rewriting history to suit as it has a massive void to fill, though the are not alone some in england do the same, the idea of the anglo as the lost tribe of Israel and somehow spiritually superior to everyone else sits with the modern American claims the trans are spiritually superior to everyone else..

what this stuff does say is that the country in question is going through a morally bankrupt period where the glue holding society together has lost is strength and thus attempting to frame themselves as the inheritors of a previous glorious or inglorious age will act as the new glue.

while the british empire tried to frame themselves as the inheritors of israel the us attempts to claim to be the inheritor of rome..

we can see this clearly in 2 claims the first if the world is run by the vatican/london/washington when london/vatican are actually in conflict to claim to be the true trojans and the inheritors of troy.. and the claim of those not able to claim to be trojans like avignon and moscow claim to be the 3rd Rome instead in a similar process..

ultimately that is what this boils down to crafting this story of being the true inheritors of previous glory.. but it is only a story

a reply to: JimmyNeutr0n

Rome had conquered the world three times: the first time through its armies, the second through its religion, the third through its laws.

When I tell people that the western world lives in the not ao distant ruins of the Roman empire they tend to not understand how or why, until you start to explain and connect the dots and see the symbolism all over.

Gothic architecture which grew out of central Europe grew a sense of a united Europe as in falling under Christiendom, which grew out of the force of the Roman catholic church spreading around Europe, and by proxy its laws and Latin.

Rome had many systems with the symbolism of using a fasces, the tightly bound bundle of sticks represented a united Rome, or lictors from what I recall, representative land owners to, well, represent other land owners in their territory, sound familiar?
When the US was founded this was replicated, as only land owners could vote, or have a say in US politics.

On top of all this all the founding fathers were pretty much freemasons, breaking free from the grip of christiendom, but continued the tradition of symbolic architecture, hence why almost all the buildings look like replicas of Roman and Greek buildings, the NSDP were going to do the same thing with Hitlers grand plan for a new capitol of Europe.

It's a neat rabbit hole to go down.

E pluribus unum, out of many, one.

a reply to: JimmyNeutr0n

You've obviously never read what fascism actually is.
Read Giovanni Gentile and/or Benito Mussolini and then you'll know what you're talking about.

a reply to: JimmyNeutr0n

And if you want it in a more digestable form, with reciepts/sources sited.
Here you go:
TIK History: Fascism Defined @YouTube
TIK History: Orwell on Fascism @YouTube
TIK History: Mussolini and Fascism @YouTube

a reply to: UtIntusSicForis

That's modern day fascism ... which romanticized classical Fascism, and called to eventually return to it.

a reply to: strongfp

No.
It pined for the Roman Empire but was quite it's own thing.

a reply to: JimmyNeutr0n

Nice thread, even when you took all the wind out of their sails there is always an outboard motor that runs on fear.

I think it's appropriate to leave a link to one of the ATS must read threads...

all roads lead to rome

Have fun

a reply to: UtIntusSicForis

They arent the same... fascism in Rome was a form of law and government, when you look up the word fasces, it gives a much different definition than when you look up fascism.

For example on the Wikipedia page of fascism all it mentions about its ancient roots is how there was somewhat fascist states in Greece, completely ignores how Roman politics worked around the concept of representation of region using fascism as the model.

Two plus three equals four errr no it's fascism! Derrrr....

a reply to: strongfp

O_o
.......
Shall I leave you to argue with yourself?
Seeing as to how you're not paying attention to what I'm saying....

a reply to: UtIntusSicForis

And I don't think 90% of the people ITT understand what OP is trying to convey... so why are people bringing up what modern fascism is when OP is trying to explain how the symbolism of classical fascism is widely used for what it represented at a different time.

a reply to: strongfp

You really can't see why considering how often that word is being thrown around these days?

a reply to: strongfp

i would argue that that the usa was founded on a competing version of christianity to the one taken up by rome. even now christendom strives to eradicate that version, listen to pope francis railing even now against a 4th century british monks ideas of a good world being achievable without the approval of an elite..

the us was set up to be the next step on from divine right to rule under rome, to the rule of barons, to the rule of corporates which the us founders baulked at accepting, the rule of the grandees.. which is where the usa is now with corrupted grandees like biden.

we are on the cusp of the next step in this evolution, and sweeping away the grandees, barons and corporates.. so if the us is anything its the second half of Babylonian empire which is why the uk and us fought the war of armageddon in iraq and blair focused on syria as we see the competing groups focus on either greater israel or greater syrian plans, the british empire broke its back on the competing plans..

amazing if you say this song is a civil war song to realise you're talking about 2 very different civil wars in 2 empires separated by the same language..