One of UK's most prolific serial killer is convicted of murdering 7 babies and for 6 murder attempts

Read the Judge's sentencing remarks. Some tough reading.

Judiciary service

21.Lucy Letby, on each of the 7 offences of murder and the 7 offences of attempted murder I sentence you to imprisonment for life. Because the seriousness of your offences is exceptionally high I direct that the early release provisions do not apply. The order of the court, therefore, is a whole life order on each and every offence and you will spend the rest of your life in prison.

This woman is evil beyond description.

But lets not forget that the incompetence and criminal deceitfulness that surrounded this case is undefendable.
Others should also be held accountable in a court of law.

a reply to: Freeborn

corruption breeds corruption, at this point it looks endemic across the managerial class, the local police are looking at 40 deaths thought to be criminal at a local hospital, the local health service are being looked at over near 400 deaths, in both cases they span years that imply questionable deaths ranging from 8 to 80 deaths a year ignored by all services until the whistleblowers speak up and force the police to act.. not even coroner court verdicts seem to generate any form of learning or change.

I can't hep but feel we are stuck in a process that risks taking us the way the church went with its dodgy priests..

the question is how to fix it without tearing it all down.. but if we do start where do we stop as its across the board and in all institutions..

originally posted by: nickyw
the managerial class,

What's that supposed to mean?

The nurse murdering babies was no manager. In a hospital, clinical, nursing and administration processes are entwined. Look to the Stafford Hospital (scandal) Inquiry to see the failures of all types of staff, many who were not management.

In this case, it appears that the medical director and the director of nursing - both the most senior clinical staff - failed to address concerns from the lead consultant. Clinical decisions and decisions over clinical competence involve profession-level intervention, so while the "chief manager", the chief exec may be ultimately responsible, he would have been working on advice.

originally posted by: paraphi

originally posted by: nickyw
the managerial class,

What's that supposed to mean?

The nurse murdering babies was no manager. In a hospital, clinical, nursing and administration processes are entwined. Look to the Stafford Hospital (scandal) Inquiry to see the failures of all types of staff, many who were not management.

In this case, it appears that the medical director and the director of nursing - both the most senior clinical staff - failed to address concerns from the lead consultant. Clinical decisions and decisions over clinical competence involve profession-level intervention, so while the "chief manager", the chief exec may be ultimately responsible, he would have been working on advice.

medical director and the director of nursing

I do not get you attack lines, if these are not the managerial class what are they?

or do you see them as imaginary roles on org charts with no oversight at all..

this class was the root cause of the 2007/8 financial crash the data/reports etc gets filtered up and stops at this level and they feed up a bs happy world to the senior leadership that doesn't exist, their failures to respond are what lies at the heart of most disasters and blocks most disaster recovery plans from fully working..

if you can not see beyond your attack lines i can't help you with that..

originally posted by: Freeborn
This woman is evil beyond description.

But lets not forget that the incompetence and criminal deceitfulness that surrounded this case is undefendable.
Others should also be held accountable in a court of law.

I agree there are a lot of failures at many levels and others should be held accountable for these failures and cover ups. Probably what I am thinking is negligence but I don't know if the UK law has provisions for people in positions of responsibility who have been 'negligent' in their duties of care.

originally posted by: nickyw
I do not get you attack lines, if these are not the managerial class what are they?

I have no attack line. Just don't know what you mean by "management class" in the context of this situation. In healthcare, the issues are complicated by clinical factors and opinions. We don't know whether fellow clinicians negligently ignored or discounted the evidence that Letby was dangerous, or at the least needed investigation.

Hopefully this will be revealed, because the checks and balances have failed. It's too early to bay for blood when the detail is unknown. For example, at what stage were Coroners involved, as they should have been if any death was deemed suspicious. Was that a failure too?

Ultimately, though, we need to remember that one person was doing the murdering.

a reply to: AlienBorg
Lot's of failures in this case. Completely ignored all safeguarding responsibilities, the hospital and all staff have legal duty in relation to safeguarding and the hospital should have protocols in place to ensure staff know what to do if they believe a patient is at risk. However, NHS take little account of lead organisation (Social Services) who have mandate and are responsible for all safeguarding of both children and vulnerable adults and any protocols in existence exclude reporting anything to external agencies.
Under contracts of employment, all staff, regardless of position or rank, will have a clause re Gross Negligence - a sackable offence.
As to 'decision makers' and their disregard of patient safety, I've seen no mention of a director of ethics type role. I cannot help but wonder why there is no such person and no national mandatory safeguarding policy in place that requires ongoing liaison with designated police and social services input when concerns are raised by conscionable staff.

a reply to: paraphi

Did you watch the video in the opening post?

There is a lot of info in it ...which may answer some of your queries.

a reply to: teapot

Hospitals have a 'Freedom to speak up' officer.......it's a NHS thing.

In a video I mentioned on this thread a retired consultant said that they never get back to you when contacted.

originally posted by: paraphi
Read the Judge's sentencing remarks. Some tough reading.

Judiciary service

21.Lucy Letby, on each of the 7 offences of murder and the 7 offences of attempted murder I sentence you to imprisonment for life. Because the seriousness of your offences is exceptionally high I direct that the early release provisions do not apply. The order of the court, therefore, is a whole life order on each and every offence and you will spend the rest of your life in prison.

The reasonable sentencing I would add.

It is left to find out whether this is a person who is a psychopath with severe psychological and mental health issues. Then she may spend her rest of her life in a psychiatric institution. Remember she doesn't have a motive for all these murders and attempted murders.

a reply to: AlienBorg
Motive seems to have been attention seeking. Reports the hospital saw her as victim is reveals fairly typical psychopath behaviour in seeking empathy for self. I saw something where she was interested in impressing a male doctor. Perhaps he was impressed at how caring she was in her approach to grieving parents.

My personal view is, it's always a choice. Only raving, insane psychopaths can claim diminished responsibility. All else that does not choose to not do evil, is calculated evil.

a reply to: Itisnowagain
Good info. If these 'Freedom to Speak Up Officers' are there to satisfy hospital stated commitment to protect whistleblowers yet do not respond to calls, it appears usual made up bs jobs as per current meme 'lazy girl jobs'.

Whenever a case like this comes to light, it's shocking to the core.
The top tier of the NHS trust should be removed immediately and never allowed to work in the care enviroment again. I've worked within the NHS for a short period and have family members with 30+ years in health care. The Trusts neonatal unit saw 3 deaths a year at most, to then have 3 deaths in one month and do nothing is beyond belief. The unit should have been closed and an investigation started straight away, and the unit not reopened untill a cause was found. For those in charge not to follow standard practices, even possibly cover it up should be joining Letby in prision.

originally posted by: Kurokage
Whenever a case like this comes to light, it's shocking to the core.
The top tier of the NHS trust should be removed immediately and never allowed to work in the care enviroment again. I've worked within the NHS for a short period and have family members with 30+ years in health care. The Trusts neonatal unit saw 3 deaths a year at most, to then have 3 deaths in one month and do nothing is beyond belief. The unit should have been closed and an investigation started straight away, and the unit not reopened untill a cause was found. For those in charge not to follow standard practices, even possibly cover it up should be joining Letby in prision.

It seems there are many failures at every level but as I said above I don't know whether the UK law has provisions for those in positions of responsibility for negligence and cover up. It's definitely something for which you can loose your job but unlikely you will go to jail.

I'm not usually disturbed by much, but why not pick a more defenseless target?

Torn between natural born killer and nature made killer.

I'd like to know how hard she had to work to get the neonatal assignment. If malevolent from the start, how many people did she have to snow with a good girl facade to position herself there? Or did it start out with vicarious motherhood intentions and decay into resentment, hatred, and compulsion.

That arrest was something though. Halfway between the floor being yanked out from beneath her and relief it was over.

The diary page comes off totally disjointed and disturbing. Writen and then added to. But her actions covering her tracks are self-serving and cogniscent of the actions. What an internal fight. The sanity that was barely comes out.

Things like,

"I'm an awful person - I pay every day for that. Kill myself right now. I'll never have children or marry. I'll never know what [unintelligible] like to have a family. Hate myself so much for what this has [HATE]...."

With "No Hope", "Fear", "Lost", "Why me?" In the margins.

A lot of self-loathing.

It want to say this one went all twisted over not being able to have kids. She was jealous, envious, and resentful of people being able to do what she could not. I want to believe it was because she was infertile and not just psychotic.

I want to think it there's a good reason and something corrupted her and bred resentment more recently, turned into murder. But my intuition says it was a compulsive urge straight from the black lodge and lurking in her mind from childhood. That diary entry defines "firewalking". Written by both her conscious and unconscious.

I swear many serial killers suffer from a psychological version of possession. Trying so hard to be normal but unable to fight the compulsion. It splits and an alter ego (they aware of completely) takes over. Compulsions fulfilled. "Stranger Lucy" appeased. Then back to being a nurse or baker. Fighting waves of this other persona inside their minds and its compulsions.

a reply to: AlienBorg

Did anyone hear about the plumbing issues on the neonatal ward?

Plumber tells of sewage issues at hospital at trail......raw sewage leaking into the ward where the babies were.

There are at least two videos on yt questioning whether she is actually guilty.
However.....I bet you can't find a video that asks...."Lucy Letby: is she innocent?"

I find it strange that when I searched for that actual video on yt (inputting it exactly how it's actually presented on the video....exactly the same as I have written it above)......it did not show up.....it's there though.....if you know who posted it.

Don't you find that odd?

originally posted by: Itisnowagain
a reply to: AlienBorg

Did anyone hear about the plumbing issues on the neonatal ward?

Plumber tells of sewage issues at hospital at trail......raw sewage leaking into the ward where the babies were.

There are at least two videos on yt questioning whether she is actually guilty.
However.....I bet you can't find a video that asks...."Lucy Letby: is she innocent?"

I find it strange that when I searched for that actual video on yt (inputting it exactly how it's actually presented on the video....exactly the same as I have written it above)......it did not show up.....it's there though.....if you know who posted it.

Don't you find that odd?

Yes it seems strange.
Do you have any more on this? Who was questioning whether she is actually guilty?

a reply to: AlienBorg

I would be interested to know if you did a search on yt for the video (using the exact way I wrote it) before I give you the name of the channel......and then you can watch it for yourself and see who it is that is questioning whether she's actually guilty.

Could you find it? Or find anything that is questioning the verdict at all on yt?

a reply to: andy06shake

Im amazed the woman did what she did to be honest.

Its just so hard to accept she could do such a thing.

Maybe she didn't.

There's an article in the Independent online:
"Friends and colleagues of murderer Lucy Letby insist baby killing nurse is innocent"

A campaign to raise funds for Letby’s appeal has also been launched in the US and claims that the conviction “may represent the greatest miscarriage of justice the UK has ever witnessed".

...mentioned in the article.