Children of the Law of One: The Lost Teachings of Atlantis

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[edit on 5-2-2008 by dbates]

Originally posted by jbond007
Until Jon Peniel can prove the claims in his book, I consider him a fraud and charlatan.

great for you

If he would simply PROVE his accomplishments via an autobiography with credible sources, all criticisms would become moot. In fact, if he did come forward with definitive proof of his life story, it would be one of, if not THE, greatest story of any one man's life. But since he is unwilling to come forward with proof of his training in Tibet, .....

A spiritual cultivator of the buddha school would say you have poor enlightenment quality. Due to your level of spiritual evolution and past lives, you are focused on the wrong things. You want a grand story, the "greatest story", on the front page of the newspapers before you have the courage to follow the spiritual path. The things you are focused on are a result of your level of conciousness and development. Perhaps you did something bad in a past life, so you were born in this lifetime being even mentally more selfish, and when the truth comes to you, you are naturally negative towards it and not very sensitive to it. You want to run away at all costs.

This is the way it is, people who have too much karma can't get enlightenment or authentic teachings, they have to suffer through several lifetimes first. So since you have alot of karma when you hear truth, you don't want to believe it and naturally disbelieve. People who have evolved further are more sensitive to what is true and what is not true.

working extensively with The Moody Blues, Neil Young, The Beatles, John Lennon (including the song "Imagine"), invited to be a Grammy Award judge, his academic research at UCLA and other institutions, etc., all he really has to show for his life is an ability to conglomerate new age/spiritual material and make it clear and easy to read -- possibly catering to the uneducated new age market.

I have to wonder where this hatered of Jon Peniel comes from, that you go as far as taking cheap shots and claiming it's for the "uneducated". Nothing could be further from the truth. IF this was fake, why does it actually provide the orginal spiritual path that all others came from? If this was made up you could never make it work.

What the LTA are, would be like the equivalence of finding the missing link or predecessor to modern humans in modern science.

This is the "missing link" of religions, the original one that all others, all other good religions came from.

For those of us who have been through college and beyond we have learned the tenets the LTA presents, and more, in our philosophy, humanities, other related classes, and through life itself. We've also learned about true science and how experimental proof is king. Peniel expects us to instead "feel the truth" without providing and real,

To this all I can say is lol @ thinking human ideas and human concepts you learned in schools and textbooks could ever match or have the depth of authentic ancient spiritual lineages, including the LTA direct from Shargung La.

I'll tell you right now, modern science is not anywhere close to understanding how things really are, and they are no where near the level that the true spiritual masters, the friends of mankind, and of the teachings of spiritual orthodox lineages thousands of years old all over the world. Modern science can never discover anything that the ancients had not already discovered and seen in their meditations. Most spiritual paths, whether they are Tibetan, Chinese, Indian, Native American, it doesn't matter, they are way beyond science when it comes to understanding nature and how the universe works. But they don't abuse their knowledge and powers or show them off to people in modern soceity because they wouldn't understand and societal people would just want to come learn spiritual teachings for the wrong reasons.

It has to come from within, the student has to be sensitive to truth, and no genuine spiritual being would compromise that just to get more students who are of a more selfish conciousness anyways. One genuine student would be worth more than 100 suckers who want to develop powers, gain knowledge, or develop a spiritual ego.

I'll tell you right now that Einstien was no where near the conciousness level of Jesus either. Jesus was enlightned, had undergone a NDE, and had seen all things in the universe through transcending his human mind

Your science and data are a joke. The human mind can never percieve truth until it undergoes a Near Death Experience, which btw, are scientifically proven and show that conciousness exists when the brain has shut downs as people have witnessed things that happened while they were clinically dead in a clinical setting

Originally posted by jbond007
Of course, if you have doubts or concerns and approach him with them you're chastised and considered "lower consciousness" because you can't "feel the truth". This type of teaching is an earmark of a cult leader and described extensively in Singer's book (more on that below).

This now is where you get completely out of line

Forst off Margaret Singer has widely been exposed as a joke and a fruad herself. She has basically gone against every legitimate expert in the western world and declared Falun Gong a cult. That should be enough to show you that she's a joke. Her reasoning? it has a teacher. Do you realize that would make all religions a cult? What a cult is is something that isolates you from society, your family, or people that question the cult's beliefs.

Singer is obviously biased against all spirituality and you cannot site her as a credible person nor as a so called "expert", as she is not in agreement with any real experts.

As for "feeling the truth", this is done through the inner being and it is a tangible sense to be developed through many advanced meditations and Yoga methods.

How much someone has practiced the techniques they talk about, whether they have put in real effort or just read about it, is exposed by their comments.

I think Jon Peniel truly DOES want to live the utopian lifestyle described in the book and lives by the teachings he presents. However, this lifestyle treads on delicate ground because the CLO does accept "students" under Jon's authoritarian direction.

"Authoritarian"? You excel at using loaded terminolgy so you don't have to explicitly say what you're even talking about. This doesn't make anyone a cult leader. Most monasteries, and most societal intitutions have some kind of authoritarian rules to keep order.

There's also the fact that you do have to have a living enlightened teacher to attain enlightenment yourself. This is known in other authentic ancient spiritual traditions too, not just the CLO

In fact, many techniques used by the CLO easily pass many of the criteria of being a cult. Marget Singer's (UC-Berkeley Emeritus Professor) book, "Cults in our Midst". It's is a GREAT book and you will find many parallels between the CLO and destructive cult behavior within it.

As I explained before, your are citing a quack.

One of many examples is the Star Exercise (talked about above by some people in this thread and is highly touted by the CLO). The Star Exercise is just a form of hyperventilation which many cults commonly employ in different ways.

See this is where you start spouting garbage. The Star exercise is a SOPHISTICATED technique. You have to have perfect balance in all directions, even relaxation and tension throughout the body without any imbalance. Basically you have opposite energies working against each other, left and right, up and down. You also have alignment of the hips with the shoulders and internal stretching even. It's an open posture to develop the lung and heart meridian in acupuncture yet while it is open, there is still contraction and closing as you exhale. Whole body opens and closes as you breathe.

The beathing is called the breath of fire, or abdominal breathing. It is thousands of years old and known to be extremely healthy. It's not a "cult" technique, it's an ancient form of Yoga and extremely healthy.

Lol @ "it's just hyperventilating". Someone's skill level will be revealed in their words.

There's absolutely nothing spiritual or profound about it, it's just simple hyperventilation which can cause tingling, fainting, euphoric feelings and other symptoms.

No, your understanding is not correct. It is true that this exercise produces many sensations, tingling heat, warmth, vibration along the meridians, but what is most important is the physical feeling of well being throughout the day.

A more appropriate comparison would be the "runner's high" phenomena. The star exercise does even more than that due to the Qi energy, but the bottom line is these sensations and feelings are VERY HEALTHY. Practice for yourself instead of just reading about it, you will see your strength, endurance, and immunity improve tremendously.

Additionally, I believe part of the "real story" of Jon Peniel is that he was born in LA and at some point came in contact with the Source Family, which was a popular cult in the 60's in the LA area. He was known as "Zoroaster" within their group, and played guitar in their band. Check out www.yahowha.org... for more information on the Source Family. Also check out their newly released (2007) book and DVD documenting their history -- very interesting. Interestingly, the back of their book says that they are confident that one of their former members who left the group in 1971 -- Zoroaster -- a great guitarist, wrote the Lost Teachings of Atlantis book using Source Family history (i.e., no hidden Tibet Monastery, etc). It seems Peniel used the utopian Tibetan setting as an allegory for his time spent in the Source Family. Jim Baker, the "Father" of the Source Family is most certainly the "Zain" Peniel describes in LTA.

Jon Peniel spent much time helping out in many monasteries including monasteries in america, buddhist monasteries in Tibet, as well as the Atlantean one at Shargung La. I cannot verify the so called Source family connection, but it does not mean "No Tibatan Monastery". That is simply an either/or fallacy you have constructed. Jon Peniel did admit that he had stayed in many monasteries even in the US

As of right now nobody knows who "Jon Peniel" is. We don't know his real name, we don't know where he is located (the CLO changes location every couple of months) we don't know if his book is truly non-fiction because of the lack of proof, and Peniel has resisted to divulge any corroborating information under the guise of "the teachings are what matter". That is a big red flag to me. You can't have it both ways.

The teachings are ALL that matters.

A master does not want students coming to him for the wrong reasons

Originally posted by whargoul


This is utter BS and shows a missunderstanding in atomic structure! Electrons orbit in a "cloud" and can be anywhere at anytime (even to the point of seeming to be the same place at the same time). Planet's orbit stars in defined elipses... Hope that wasn't Atlantian knowledge. This just drives the point home that the people writing this stuff don't know squat and dont care!

How is the method of orbit relevant at all? Regardless of the method it still exists throughout the whole round of nature.

Did you miss the point of the lesson you are quoting? I think you did.

The point is, whether it is Planets, electrons, electricity, batteries, gender in animals, there is always the same order and interaction between positive and negative polarities, Yin and Yang is throughout all creation. A planet orbits a sun in The EXACT same way a female orbits a male, and the EXACT same way an electron orbits a nucleus.

However you think the so called orbit works, based on what you think you saw through your limited 5 senses which are incapable or percieving how anything really is, doesn't matter. Regardless of how something orbits, the orbit is still there.

Even humans have orbits within them, acupuncture channels.

Originally posted by Hollywood11

The point is, whether it is Planets, electrons, electricity, batteries, gender in animals, there is always the same order and interaction between positive and negative polarities, Yin and Yang is throughout all creation. A planet orbits a sun in The EXACT same way a female orbits a male, and the EXACT same way an electron orbits a nucleus.

Problem is, and you were told this, electrons don't "orbit" the nucleus at all. Period. End of story. Analogy in tatters.

Females, also, do not "orbit" males.

Chauvinist.

Harte

That's the weakest argument I've probably ever heard against anything. What you are doing is playing semantics. If you really want to argue like that, you are simply arguing semantics. OF course there is no such thing as an "orbit", since this is western terminology based on the illusions of the 5 senses.

We are simply using the term "orbit" so that people from modern society can understand the concept and relationship between all things in the universe. If you want to use terminology that actually has a basis in reality,the terminology would be Yin and Yang.

When we say something is "orbiting" something else, that means it is the Yin aspect and what it is orbiting is the Yang aspect. Truthfully orbits don't exist, only Yin and Yang exists.

It should also be made clear that there is nothing sexist in the explanation of these universal facts. Females simply are the negative polarity and receptive to the male polarity which is the positive polarity. It's like how a battery works. For there to be harmony in the universe, and for the universe to exists, there always has to be a relationship between Yin and Yang. Yin and Yang IS existence itself.

However, something that is interesting is that women do look up to men in a way. A woman is more likely to go for a man 10 years older than her than a man 10 years younger than her. Many women would feel weird dating a man who is younger than them.


Now, on to addressing more important slander against the CLO.....some poeple would like to claim that the CLO system is a ripoff of, or somehow is based on the so called Source Family system and methods. However, when the systems are carefully analyzed and compared critically, it becomes obvious that the CLO and Source family systems are completely different from each other and not related. 2 completely different things going on here. It's pretty obvious that what the Source family system is, is a mish mash of little bits and peices of various systems, all mish mashed together into one system. THis doesn't really work well, you can't mix different ancient spiritual schools together and you can't mix meditation techniques from different schools. It would be like putting a Tuba peice on a Trumpet, it just wouldn't work anymore to make music in the case of instruments, nor to gain enlightenment in the case of spiritual lineages. A true spiritual lineage is something that has been passed down intact and unaltered from a remote age and it cannot be altered in the slightest or the whole system is ruined and won't work to gain enlightenment.

The CLO system on the other hand is exactly in line with and exactly what we would expect to find an ancient school of spiritual cultivation would be like. It's completel systematic and one whole system. Clearly the CLO is a true lineage that is completely balanced and whole, it's not a mish mash of a whole bunch of systems mixed together like the Source familiy system.

To see how different the CLO is from the Source family, we need to look no further than at what the Source family calls the "Star exercise" compared to the original authentic Star Exercise as taught by the CLO. They are completely different! The source family method crosses it's arms in a strange mudra posture and then does a very strange shaking breathing. The CLO way is totally different, they stand in the actual star posture and do not cross their arms.

Through critical analysis we can tell the difference between the original CLO authentic lineage and methods, and the Source family which just combines little bits of various things like the so called "magik" and some publically taught Yoga methods. CLO on the other hand is completely unique,systematic,and original.

The Source familiy's "star exercise", it's like they're doing the Heavy death Metal devil sign
www.youtube.com...

Original Star Exercise from Jon Peniel, very different and way better
www.meditation-techniques.net...

There is also absolutely no certainty as to who Jon Peniel's true teacher Zain was, or if anyone in the west even knows who he was.

Jon Peniel did help out and stayed with many groups and in many monasteries for various reasons so that he could accomplish the things he needed to accomplish after he left the Tibetan monastery. He also studied with many groups, Zen buddhists, and even martial artists as a teenager before he went to Tibet.

One thing we know is that the original Tarot is important to the CLO system which is in some ways based off the original Tarot. The only person who new of the original Tarot that I am aware of, was a man by the name of Elbert Benjamin who took the spiritual name of "C.C. Zain".

We should also remember that many people, especially people at a high level of conciousness and spirituality, have almost near doubles that they have never met. There could very easily be someone who looks exactly like you in europe or america and you never met them.

Here is the website of C.C. Zain on the Sacred original Tarot
www.light.org...

If all we have is the word of some 60s cult that Jon Peniel didn't go to Tibet, then that is very weak evidence indeed, and not that reliable. Of course any cult that has lost popularity is going to try to regain some of that popularity any way they can, even by slandering other groups and other traditions. They're trying to jump on the backs of and use the real CLO to get in the public eye again and possibly even steal away students from the CLO. Certainly you have nothing that is "almost certain" about Jon Peniel's past. In fact he has stayed in many buddhist monasteries and he even met with and lived with the Hopi elders for a time.

Originally posted by Hollywood11
That's the weakest argument I've probably ever heard against anything. What you are doing is playing semantics. If you really want to argue like that, you are simply arguing semantics. OF course there is no such thing as an "orbit", since this is western terminology based on the illusions of the 5 senses.

We are simply using the term "orbit" so that people from modern society can understand the concept and relationship between all things in the universe. If you want to use terminology that actually has a basis in reality,the terminology would be Yin and Yang.

Really? Then why do you use the term "EXACT..."

A planet orbits a sun in The EXACT same way a female orbits a male, and the EXACT same way an electron orbits a nucleus.

Obviously, these things are not only not "EXACT," but none of the three are even related in the tiniest degree.

Originally posted by Hollywood11When we say something is "orbiting" something else, that means it is the Yin aspect and what it is orbiting is the Yang aspect. Truthfully orbits don't exist, only Yin and Yang exists.

If you really think that science has no idea, I maintain that you should cease using scientific terminology such as the word "orbit" itself.

Note:

Your science and data are a joke. The human mind can never percieve truth until it undergoes a Near Death Experience,

However, when the systems are carefully analyzed and compared critically, it becomes obvious that the CLO and Source family systems are completely different from each other and not related.

If science is a joke, what paradigm of "critical analysis" are you using here?

Similarly:

The CLO system on the other hand is exactly in line with and exactly what we would expect to find an ancient school of spiritual cultivation would be like. It's completel systematic and one whole system. Clearly the CLO is a true lineage that is completely balanced and whole, it's not a mish mash of a whole bunch of systems mixed together like the Source familiy system.

How, without the modern concept of the scientific method, can one tell whether a set of postulates is complete and systematic?

Oh, wait I think I see:

It has to come from within, the student has to be sensitive to truth,

IOW, it's what I say it is.

Hmmm. This does sound like a cult.

Harte



[edit on 5/12/2008 by Harte]

deleted double post

[edit on 5/12/2008 by Harte]

Originally posted by Harte


Really? Then why do you use the term "EXACT..."

Because they work in the exact same way. If modern science isn't advanced to the point that it understands that all vibration in the universe is connected, I can't really help that.

Everything in the universe is just one big chain. Microcosms and Macrocosms is all there is at the fundamental level. It's just modern science can't grasp that because they aren't high level enough.

Obviously, these things are not only not "EXACT," but none of the three are even related in the tiniest degree.

To say that everything in the universe isn't connected and related, to say that the whole universe isn't ONE thing, is ridiculous in my view.

If you really think that science has no idea, I maintain that you should cease using scientific terminology such as the word "orbit" itself.

How would I communicate with people who have no experience with high level things and only know modern science?

If science is a joke, what paradigm of "critical analysis" are you using here?

The best way to analyze the authenticity of a lineage is to compare it to other systems which are proven to be ancient. We would look at how perfect, balanced, and systematic the system is. If the meditation doesn't go with the physical exercises in a completely systematic way, then the system may be a modern mish mash combining different schools that shouldn't have been combined. We would look at how high level and advanced the knowledge is that the system has. The best way would be to compare to Buddhist traditions, Taoist traditions, all Yoga traditions, and Traditional Chinese medicine. If we are knowledgable in these systems, distinguishing between a modern system and an acient system should not be too hard.

One of the best things ithat a good system should have is knowledge of how the acupuncture channels work.


Similarly:

How, without the modern concept of the scientific method, can one tell whether a set of postulates is complete and systematic?

Chinese Medicine is a good framework to compare it to, as are authentic spiritual traditions such as Buddhism or Taoism.


:

Hmmm. This does sound like a cult.

Harte

How is that at all like a cult? Do you think an authentic master would do it any other way? If you went to study with a buddhist in an authentic monastery and you came for the worng reasons, he would instantly know your thoughts are bad and selfish and would not teach you. If you come to gain "knowledge", "abilities", or that kind of thing you will never be taught. You want to come ruin their school which has been passed down for thousands of years possibly by polluting it with your selfish thoughts and desires? It won't be allowed. People come to spirituality beacause it's within them and they are sensitive to truth, and because they have a real desire to change and become better people.

It has to come from within your own heart, how is that like a cult? Cults want gullible people who can be tricked and manipulated, not peopole who are genuinely serious about spirituality and learning.

I have been trying to sort out the CLO/Source situation lately after a friend brought it up. Something has never sat well with the idea of the CLO material being somehow ripped off from the Source material. Looking at the source family material, it doesn't quite jive with my inner voice, as it were. The CLO material seems much more grounded in a deeper system, and rings more true. Hollywood11 you make some good points.

The confounding factor is that the CLO has been almost completely silent and inaccessible for quite some time. Whereas they used to update their website very frequently, now it has been static for quite some time. I wonder why this is...

I would like to sincerely Thank Slave (Startzpe), Mhuss, apaara & Hollywood11 for their insights and knowledge...

I myself began reading the book Children of The Law of One two days ago and cried uncontrollably the first 40 pages or so...I NEVER CRY....PERIOD...I am unsure why at this time...but I believe it ties back to either something in my previous life or this life as I have been programmed to believe in...

The simple fact of the matter is:
This book is not a book for the Believers, Non-Believers, TheoCrats, Self Indulgent Knowledge Monkeys only serving themselves and Mammon....it is SIMPLY TRUTH!!!!!...and I have felt it by the grace of the higher being...the higher consciousness...John was right that this book is thicker and deeper than the great Abyss of the Pacific Ocean as we know it...it is so very deep that I know I would be lost reading it...if I did not let go of my preconceived notions of what we have all been FORCE-FED from Birth....and begin to use that inner voice of Intuition or my "GUT" so to speak

UNSELFISH LOVE....LOVING UNSELFISHLY....impossible you say?
well...when ONE is entangled within it's own selfish prowess of self proclaimed KNOWLEDGE...therein LIES the problem...EGO....

NO GUTS....????....NO GLORY....!!!!!....so ends the story......

I would like to sincerely Thank Slave (Startzpe), Mhuss, apaara & Hollywood11 for their insights and knowledge...

I myself began reading the book Children of The Law of One two days ago and cried uncontrollably the first 40 pages or so...I NEVER CRY....PERIOD...I am unsure why at this

time...but I believe it ties back to either something in my previous life or this life as I have been programmed to believe in...

The simple fact of the matter is:
This book is not a book for the Believers, Non-Believers, TheoCrats, Self Indulgent Knowledge Monkeys only serving themselves and Mammon....it is SIMPLY TRUTH!!!!!...and I have

felt it by the grace of the higher being...the higher consciousness...John was right that this book is thicker and deeper than the great Abyss of the Pacific Ocean as we know it...it is

so very deep that I know I would be lost reading it...if I did not let go of my preconceived notions of what we have all been FORCE-FED from Birth....and begin to use that inner voice

of Intuition or my "GUT" so to speak

UNSELFISH LOVE....LOVING UNSELFISHLY....impossible you say?
well...when ONE is entangled within it's own selfish prowess of self proclaimed KNOWLEDGE...therein LIES the problem...EGO....

NO GUTS....????....NO GLORY....!!!!!....so ends the story......

"Since we are really part of, and One with, All Creation, each of us individually is also of a threefold nature. This threefold human nature manifests in manyways. The threefold essential vibratory nature of our human manifestation is spiritual, mental, and physical. You can also see it in the nature of our consciousness,in that called the sub-conscious mind; the “conscious” mind, and the Universal conscious mind. The balance and coordination of the threefold nature has been, and still is, lost with most people.

when you have a whole world full of people who
selfishly care more about themselves than others, you have a world such as it is
today. But on the bright side - can you imagine what it would be like if we ALL
cared for EACH OTHER more than ourselves? Contemplate that for a while.

Howdy

when you have a whole world full of people who selfishly care more about themselves than others, you have a world such as it is today.

This world and how the people react is actually somewhat better than it was in ancient or medieval times. We are learning but slowly.

There was a man who died and was being taken to heaven by angels. The angels said to him, “We are going to take you to heaven, but first we will show you hell.” The angels then took him to a place where there was a great bowl, so great that it was as big as a lake. The bowl was filled with a nutritious stew. All the way around the sides of this bowl were people. Emaciated, starving, miserable people. These people had spoons to eat the stew with, and the spoons were long enough to reach the stew (about 12 feet). The trouble was, while they could scoop up the stew into the spoon, they could not get it into their mouths because the spoons were too long. So here were all these pathetic people, suffering and
moaning in agony, constantly trying to eat the food that was abundantly in front of them - all in vain.

Next, the angels took the man to heaven. To his surprise, he saw the same scene! There it was, a giant lake-like bowl of the same stew, surrounded by people with 12 foot long spoons. Yet something was different here - all these people were smiling, happy, and healthy looking! “Why? What is the difference here that these people are happy and well fed?”, the man said to the angels. They replied, “Have you not eyes to see?”. The man looked more carefully, and observed that one person would scoop up the stew, and bring it to the mouth of another. Then someone else would scoop up stew and feed it to the other. The angels smiled and said, “Here the people feed each other. Here are the people that learned the way of Love.”

"The LORD smote all the firstborn in the land."
After God has sufficiently hardened the Pharaoh's heart (Ex.11:10), he kills all the firstborn Egyptian children. When he was finished "there was not a house where there was not one dead." Finally, he runs out of little babies to kill, so he slaughters the firstborn cattle, too.
What the Bible says about children and God

If you take the religious viewpoint, then we learned our violence from the big guy.