Historic Deception - US Gov UFO Investigations?

a reply to: karl 12

They're going to hide behind national security as they do always do; for instance, as I’ve been reading lately Annie Jacobsen's surprisingly interesting book on Paperclip, where on one hand, one faction of the Pentagon hated it, yet another went ahead and financed it and financed all kinds of chemical and biological weaponry on the QT, and never called to account. No records at all...Goes to show us a template of how they do the UFO cover-up so successfully.

In this case, this is somewhat complex since you, me, and many others believe or know they not only do a cover-up but active disinformation as well.

So, Mr. Grusch may be on the disinformation team and not even know it!

He may be a victim of the manipulation squad.

originally posted by: introufo

Thanks for the links; I'll definitely check them out...

Appreciate it mate and I'm glad someone is.

Regarding official historical deception basically we've got major manipulation (and deceit) over the actual numbers of 'actual unknowns'; reams of missing 'hot reports' which never even reached Bluebook (and completely ridiculous explanations for many that did) and unscientific 'scientific' investigations abused by intel agencies to 'debunk' the phenomena.. with the popular 'debunkers' of the time also having known ties to said agencies.

Here's more on the scientists just 'following the CIA's lead' in the RP:

The Robertson Panel, as it came to be known,, was hampered by men of Page's mindset and thrown off by the highly selective presentation of UFO cases by the CIA, charged one of the attending Air Force officers. "We were double-crossed," commented a Blue Book member. "The CIA (didn't) want to prepare the public - they're trying to bury the subject. Those agents ran the whole show and the scientists followed their lead.

Turns out they were also involved in Condon's research but he was ordered never to admit during a SECRET clearance level meeting.

a reply to: karl 12

These are sleazily crooked bastards all around.
Those are the histories that need to be exposed in a legitimate Congressional hearing about the present, past, and future of this mystery...

Of course, likely not to happen at all, with the CIA preventing it...

But the people need to know the duplicity and outright evil of the CIA and their coverup of ufo events and that Richard Helms, that scumbag destroyed MK Ultra files, so we’ll never know the worse...regarding this issue and others.

I just have this gut feeling...that one reason the CIA and the Pentagon are stonewalling on UAP's, is because they're deathly afraid of Russia, China or even North Korea getting their hands on any space alien foo fighter technology.

originally posted by: introufo

I’ve been reading lately Annie Jacobsen's surprisingly interesting book on Paperclip, where on one hand, one faction of the Pentagon hated it, yet another went ahead and financed it and financed all kinds of chemical and biological weaponry on the QT, and never called to account. No records at all...Goes to show us a template of how they do the UFO cover-up so successfully.

Yes mate good book and thought this was a rather apt quote from the main Nazi propaganda man himself:

"What you need to control the media is ostensible diversity that conceals an actual uniformity"

Joseph Goebbels

Sticking with propaganda if I were an amateur astronomer I'd also be feeling pretty 'duped'.

• "They were coming up with the conclusion that 'we should debunk the UFO phenomenon' (in essence they should lie about it) and 'here's how we are going to do it'.

One of the key ways this panel commissioned by the CIA pointed as a way of doing this (they called it 'disseminating their gospel') were amateur astronomers.

When you put that in context you say it makes sense that Dr Menzel might be involved in the effort to cover things up because as the nation's leading astronomer who better to convince amateur astronomers that the whole UFO thing is bunk?

3:25

Regarding the first video in the first post where Stanton describes a 2013 debunking article in 'Astronomy Magazine' it looks like the 'gospel' is still being 'disseminated'.

• "There's an article in the current issue of astronomy magazine 'The Science Behind UFOs' which mentions none of the large scale scientific studies, mentions none of the dozen PhD theses that have been done about UFOs, mentions nothing about the physical trace cases, the radar visual sightings, the abduction cases - this is the 'science behind UFOs?"

1:20

Probably no coincidence that the author of that article (Phillip Plait) was awarded the 'Philip J. Klass Award' in the same year (nor that Menzel was 'mentor' to Klass).

Klass also used to boast about citing both Bobby Ray Inman and Daniel O. Graham as references (not bad for an 'electrical engineer').

Admiral Bobby R. Inman (USN Ret.)—the former Director of the National Security Agency, who also held Deputy Director positions at both the Central Intelligence Agency and the Defense Intelligence Agency—and Lt. General Daniel O. Graham (USA Ret.), the former Director of the Defense Intelligence Agency and former Deputy Director of the Central Intelligence Agency

link / 22:30

Luckily not all astronomers have fallen for this BS and thought some of the statements made here by Dr. Bernard Haisch (Director for the California Institute for Physics and Astrophysics) were pretty relevant.

a reply to: Erno86

If they were so worried, why behind the scenes do they work together, International space station, Pfizer in Wuhan paid by the government. Russian scientist have claimed to have retrieved alien tech, so just a smoke screen.

a reply to: Erno86

Well mate probably fair to say folks in the US (and UK) can be pretty insular in their outlook at times but the phenomenon does appear to be global (140 countries).

• "There are three incontrovertible points that even the grossest skeptic can't ignore - one, that UFO reports not only exist but persist; two, that the phenomenon is global in nature (over 140 countries) and three, that many UFO reports come from highly credible and technically trained people."

Dr. J. Allen Hynek, scientific consultant for Air Force investigations of UFOs from 1948 until 1969 (Projects Sign, Grudge and Blue Book)

Don't know if there's a concerted, globally coordinated effort to investigate it but, as an example, there were 'shedloads' of reports during the Korean war.

• "In June 1952 the Air Force was taking the UFO problem seriously. One of the reasons was that there were a lot of good UFO reports coming in from Korea. Fighter pilots reported seeing silver coloured spheres or disks on several occasions, and radar in Japan, Okinawa, and in Korea had tracked unidentified targets."

Captain Edward J. Ruppelt, head of Project Blue book, in his book "The Report on Unidentified Flying Objects

UFO Reports during the Korean War.

Maybe UFOs (whatever they are) show up at military theatres to check out our latest tech.. or maybe they're historians from the future.. or maybe something we haven't thought of yet.

Suppose that's the trouble with assuming anything about origin as we just don't know much.

I posted this in the Beyond Bigelow thread. But it's also relevant here.




It covers how the alphabets infiltrate and use ufology for deception purposes. Mainly after the Project Blue Book era and right up to the present day. There's the Holloman Landing story, the Bennewitz saga, UFO Cover Up Live, BIgelow, NIDS, Skinwalker Ranch and also the more current shenanigans with TTSA and beyond.

a reply to: mirageman


Thanks mate, will be watching that one when I get a mo.

Always found it telling that (staged or not) the current Naval encounters were occurring in a known UFO /USO hotspot going back decades - don't know if the current 'objects' have anything to do with submerged AUTEC like structures there (see 37:30) but some of the Fravour testimony does sound extremely similar to specific South American pilot encounters from decades ago.

Anyway thought this cartoon about 'Lockheed Martian and an alleged missing 21 trillion was a hoot - especially as they developed the relevant Pentagon and HUD financial software systems.

Also found it intriguing that BlackRock developed the Federal Reserve's financial software systems and thought there was some interesting speculation below.

Blackrock Larry’s Fink’s 2018 Letter to CEOs

All real solutions depend on individual accountablity. Since Fink and Blackrock rose to become one of the largest asset managers on a sea of organized crime, money laundering and fraudulent securities, the thing that would be most useful from/for Blackrock would be a well documentated paper and analytics that showed how they got to the top. I have personal experience. They were a co-litigant on the Hamilton Securities litigation. The guys who I worked directly with at Blackrock got the boot and started Fortress.

Now that Fink is at the top, there are several pressures on him and his operation..

Notice he is not calling for the $21 trillion missing from DOD and HUD to be found.…that would not be good for the stock market.

link

Also, could be nothing but considering the (very) bizarre way the UFO subject was interwoven into the Covid pandemic legislation then also saw that BlackRock and Lockheed Martin are both cited on the WEF's partner list.

originally posted by: introufo

Those are the histories that need to be exposed in a legitimate Congressional hearing about the present, past, and future of this mystery...

Of course, likely not to happen at all, with the CIA preventing it...

Don't reckon so mate - especially not these days.

originally posted by: introufo

But the people need to know the duplicity and outright evil of the CIA and their coverup of ufo events and that Richard Helms, that scumbag destroyed MK Ultra files, so we’ll never know the worse...regarding this issue and others.

Yes they do and regarding UFOs thought there was a good 2018 vid below exploring the realities of the 'TTSA' background team - it mentions Puthoff being a main player in Operation Stargate 'which is where the CIA went after MKUltra' - Dr Paul Rapp's rap sheet also looks to have serious MKUltra connections and then we've got Vice President Semivan (25 years CIA Operations Officer), Elizondo, Mellon and plenty of Gov operatives with decades of intel agency connections (Lockheed Martin also pops up again).

See 11:00

Naturally this was a few years ago and loads of related contradictions, inconsistencies and general bullsh•ttery has come out since then (see MM's threads) but TTSA does just look to be one big intel project with MKUltra connections.

Know you will have probably seen it but there's a good film here exploring CIA/Rockefeller funded MKUltra where 'virtually no aspect of potential control of human beings went untested' - also this great thread by Eisegesis.

a reply to: karl 12

About a couple of years ago...I heard that President Valdimir Putin of Russia is an avid UFO buff, which sent chills up and down my spine.

One of my musings....is did the U.S. Air Force aptly name the F-104 Starfighter, because it might have a possible chance to engage in a dogfight with a foo fighter?

en.wikipedia.org...

"1962-04-15___F-104 Starfighter UFO Encounter Over The Rhine"

a reply to: Erno86


Thanks for the input Erno and had never heard of that Rhine incident.

Do like a good pilot UFO case and there's one below which (amongst other incidents) was said to have caused the RAF to 'officially recognize' the UFO subject and the MOD to 'rethink and then reverse its policy'.

See 24:30

• "It had a bun on top and a bun underneath."

RAF Flight Lieutenant James R. Salandin describes object witnessed from his Meteor jet over North Weald, Essex - October 14th, 1954.

Link

a reply to: mirageman


Some relevant 'disinfo' nuggets in that vid mate and do remember watching 'UFO Cover Up Live' where it was established that 'Falcon' was Government UFO disinfo / deception agent Richard Doty.

Warning - painful to watch:

CSICOP member Jim Oberg also pops up towards the end of the video referencing Falcon and talks about "how he hopes everyone will buy strawberry ice cream so the UFO guy will go away".

Robert Hastings describes in this vid (around 23:00) how Richard Doty ran OSI UFO disinfo schemes out of Kirtland AFB and received orders to forge UFO documents and also remembered a post here where it states Oberg used to be a 'Security Officer' at Kirtland Air Force Base in charge of 'maintaining safeguards for classified government documents' but it's probably nothing.

Anyway the source link has since been deleted but Don Ledger brings up some interesting points about the 'UFO Cover Up Live' programme below and apparently 'legitimate witnesses to legitimate UFO cases were left waiting, uncalled in their motel rooms' whilst Falcon and Condor performed their disinfo antics.

Shandera, Doty and CIA official Henry Rositzke also get a mention.

On October 14, 1988, a two-hour TV special called UFO Cover-Up Live!was broadcasted simultaneously to both the United States and oddly enough, the USSR. This connection will make more sense at the close of this article. Hosted by actor Mike Farrell of the MASH TV series, the program originated from Washington, D.C. This would become the highly promoted Moore and Shandera introduction of two of the mysterious Aviary, “Falcon” and “Condor.” The two inside shadow figures were presented as U.S. Intelligence agents but were electronically disguised so they were only seen in silhouette and their voices were altered. Among some of the unbelievable claims the two “agents” made were that America was hosting alien visitors who liked strawberry ice cream and ancient Tibetan music. In reality, the two inside sources were none other than Doty and Robert Collins continuing their disinformation campaign. It attracted a huge audience but unfortunately, legitimate witnesses to legitimate UFO cases were left waiting, uncalled in their motel rooms, while Moore and Shandera exploited their own brand of disinformation. An opportunity that has left a bad taste in the mouth of ufology for all these years.

Related articles:
Link

Incidentally there was a major UFO radar/visual event at Kirtland AFB during a major UFO flap - considering he was stationed there have asked Oberg his opinion on the nature of the object but he always evades the question.

a reply to: karl 12

Thanks, No, I have never seen the MK /Rocky doc... I’ll be glad to check it out.

a reply to: karl 12

I don't remember UFO Cover Up Live! when it was broadcast or anything about it back then.

But that was one heavily scripted piece of work. Weird how it went out in the old USSR simultaneously. That must have been the early hours of a Moscow morning. Who was watching it there?

It also had Jamie Shandera as you say. The show introduces him as TV producer and director

But according to IMDB the only TV work he had done until that point was as part of the "additional crew" for something called Devil's Rain in 1975. And one other show since. As he was the one who allegedly received the MJ-12 papers I think we can see another spook in action there. He was no TV producer!!!

originally posted by: introufo

Thanks, No, I have never seen the MK /Rocky doc... I’ll be glad to check it out.

It's a bit of a long watch mate but certainly recommended - tens of thousands of people were experimented on including military soldiers, civilians, inmates, hospital patients and children - all without their consent.

originally posted by: mirageman

But that was one heavily scripted piece of work.

Yes mate major cringe and looks like a precision propaganda piece to me - don't know if it caused that much confusion (or 'infighting') in the UFO community but hilarious to watch nowadays.

originally posted by: mirageman

Weird how it went out in the old USSR simultaneously. That must have been the early hours of a Moscow morning. Who was watching it there?

Very weird and very good question - who was watching it there lol?

Sticking with psy-ops warfare manipulation but on a different track just re-watched this old Vallee interview where he's discussing military 'holographic' tech simulations and thought it deserved a spot on the thread.

Especially as he reckons some of the UFO cases he investigated involved 'some kind of manipulation taking place'.

See 5:40

Also found that many of the articles on US Military 'hologram' tech (including the USAF's 'Airborne Holographic Projector') have been deleted from the internet but have got bits saved here and there.

originally posted by: kangawoo

This interview with John Greenewald is rather interesting.

Hola kangawoo, following on from your last post thought this new JGJ was a pretty special one as he lists the individuals he thinks should be questioned 'under oath' in the UFO Senate hotseat.

It starts around 1:25:05 and is a pretty interesting list.

Last week sure was crazy in the UFO world. Numerous allegations (and strong ones, at that) were made that the Intelligence Community "leaked" the "medical records" of UFO Whistleblower David Grusch.

That would have been awful, and disgusting, if true. But, was it? Lots of people still think it is.

But were these allegations truly warranted? What really went down? Here is a live presentation overview of how it all unfolded... why... the key players... an attempt to separate fact from fiction

Also thought some important questions were being raised about the absolute lack of repercussions for Knapp/Corbell Inc supposedly 'leaking' not very impressive 'classified' UFO material (see 1:18:45).