Historic Deception - US Gov UFO Investigations?

originally posted by: pianopraze

We only have the word of woman working with him, not Von Braun himself.

Fair point there about Nazi Von Braun mate.

Always found it interesting what his Nazi mentor Oberth had to say about UFOs though (and there's another comment below from Nazi Riedel).

• "They are flying by means of artificial fields of gravity.. They produce high-tension electric charges in order to push the air out of their paths, so it does not start glowing, and strong magnetic fields to influence the ionized air at higher altitudes. First, this would explain their luminosity.. Secondly, it would explain the noiselessness of UFO flight.. Finally, this assumption also explains the strong electrical and magnetic effects sometimes, though not always, observed in the vicinity of UFOs." 

Professor Hermann Oberth, German rocket expert considered one of the three fathers of the space age. Worked with Dr. Werner von Braun from 1955 at the Army Ballistic Missile Agency and later NASA - 'Dr. Hermann Oberth discusses UFOs', Fate Magazine, May, 1962.

Link





• "There are about 50 observations known from the time before World War II. Then the number of appearances increased; the Allies thought it was a German secret weapon, and the Germans thought it was one of the Allies. Since 1947, the reports of eyewitnesses increased considerably. It is said by the English Air Marshall Lord Dowding that there have been 10,000 (reports) by 1953."

German Rocket Scientist Hermann Oberth Writing in Mitteilungen Der Gesellschaft Fur Interplanetarik
1961.

Link





• "I'm convinced saucers have an out-of-world basis."

Dr. Walther Riedel, German rocket scientist at Peenemunde, March 3rd, 1952 - Life Magazine, April 7th, 1952 issue.

Link

Quotes - Scientists

originally posted by: pianopraze

I think we have the black triangles, both big and small people are seeing..

No too sure about that one myself as FBT sightings go back a very long way indeed - did you ever catch THIS presentation by Marler?

Thought it was a pretty excellent one.

The fact of the matter is that common sense and basic ethics tell's one that you don’t trust something that has lied and deceived you for decades on a particular matter.

They haven’t earned our trust; on the contrary, they have earned mistrust, and only the foolish IMO, if they know the history, would trust these people from the US military, IC, and gov.

I believe those of us who know as many here do, we have an obligation to school the unwary of ufo history. Many people are being decided who don't know who or what they're dealing with.

originally posted by: Ilikesecrets

Glad you chime in on this latest assault of our senses. I think we are possibly on the cusp of a reveal or a complete psyop event?

With the individuals involved in the background mate (Mellon, Haines, Brennan, McCullough etc.) I would not be surprised - also suppose one has to factor in the Rockefeller's role in all this (and COG).

I know I post it a lot but have recently re-read this book and it's great as it focuses solely on internal government intelligence communication about the UFO subject - doesn't exactly match up with the fluff they've been telling us plebs all these years.

Highly recommended.

originally posted by: Ilikesecrets

have been with us all along on this planet living underground and undersea.

Distinct possibility mate, did you ever check out Skyfloating's USO Research thread?

a reply to: karl 12

Great work, my guy. Could you also dig up and refresh the minds of folks here all the UFO/USO stories happening outside of the US/UK. Typically stories in Brazil, Chile, Iran, etc.

From the Varginha Flap to Colares to the Tehran UFO to the Peruvian Lieutenant pilot Huerta shooting at the large UFO to endless encounters that are still unexplained.

Peruvian UFO

originally posted by: introufo

But that’s the point, if as is likely, this is a psychological operation on the fragile psyche of the American population, then the exposing of “ whistleblowers” and Elizondo types as pedestrian nonsense plays into the hands of the psyop..

Some great insight in that post mate and looks like psy-ops are America's main export these days - don't know if Grusch is the new Elizondo 2.0 but there was a pretty curious meeting earlier this year with DCI Avril Haines, the CIA/NSA Directors and NASIC which involved the David Grusch narrative.


Liszt on Elizondo:

• "So let's go over it - biographical movies; your own TV series on the History Channel for two years; a big book deal and all the rest.. that's not how whistleblowers are treated."

Journalist Daniel Liszt

originally posted by: Jaellma

Peruvian Lieutenant pilot Huerta shooting at the large UFO..

Hola Jaellma, always been fascinated by that one.

• "I decided to climb at full thrust to get above the object, but it began to ascend almost parallel to my plane, and when I reached 63,000 ft., it stopped. At this point, I came to within about 300 feet of the UFO. It was about 30 feet in diameter. It was an enameled, cream-colored dome, with a wide, circular, metallic base. It had no engines, no exhausts, no windows, no wings or antennae. It lacked all the typical aircraft components, with no visible propulsion system. It was at that moment that I realized this it was not a spying device, but that it was a UFO, something totally unknown."

Peruvian Air Force Sukhoi S-22 Jet Pilot Commander Oscar Santa Maria Huertas describes UFO encounter over La Joya Military Base, Arequipa, Peru, April 11th, 1980.

Thread / Video

Hi Karl,

Yes, the governments' track records are full of deception. Let us also not forget the oh-so-compliant MSM. For example, that article that quoted Captain Ruppelt. Did any so-called 'journalist' bother to follow up on those comments a few years later ? Of course not. They went right back to their beloved notion of hoaxes, crazy people, people drunk or on drugs etc. They snickered when the Air Force or other authorities offered outrageous 'explanations' for incidents of high strangeness.

Perhaps the testimony these days about 'non human pilots' is honestly intended. But it is practically impossible to trust, given the record of deception and manipulation that has accompanied these reports since the 1940s.

Cheers

originally posted by: F2d5thCavv2

Yes, the governments' track records are full of deception. Let us also not forget the oh-so-compliant MSM..

Yes mate spot on about the 'media' - couldn't agree more.


Would also include Silicon Valley in that equation and at this point would say they're both indistinguishable from Government (or at least Military Intelligence).

Know I've posted it before but there's a really relevant presentation below by the late Terry Hansen dealing with UFOs, CIA deception strategies, precision propaganda and the cultivation of 'pseudo environments'.

Corporate media collusion also gets brought up involving major news outlets like CBS, NYT etc. and when it comes to the Condon study it looks like not only was it being stage managed by the CIA but WW2 deception wizard Dr R V Jones also played an important role in 'behind the scenes' planning.

"Since 2021 all UAP videos are classified as secret or above"

abcnews.go.com...

So all this hooplah about disclosure, when in fact they are classifying more than before.

All we have is the tic-tac video, which was in the NYT in 2017 I think, and available on this site before that.

The stories of "Foo Fighters" go back to Military pilots in world war 2. But all we have is one FLIR video. Where is the helmet camera footage? Are you telling me that top military planes costing hundreds of millions don't have a phone quality camera?

Why do they keep dragging out Fravor. According to his story he didn't even film the Tic-Toc footage. Where are the pilots whose voices we hear? Why don't commercial and civilian pilots have such videos? They won't be top secret.

At this point there is absolutely no genuine push to make information public and understand the phenomena.

Instead they have come up with this ridiculous X-files crashed UFOs, biologics nonsense. I don't even think they are hiding any technology. It's just a useful way to make conspiracies look stupid again. After Covid, QR codes, Ukraine etc they need to discredit alternative media sources. Forums like this one, Youtube videos, Joe Rogan, Russel Brand, Tucker. A lot of conspiracy attention on absolute nonsense.

I really don't think there's even going to be a false flag like a fake crashed craft or giant hologram projected over a city. At least that would be kind of cool. This is just going to be endless ridiculous stories from a lone wolf hero in the intelligence community.

It's Q-anon with spaceships.

originally posted by: numberjuggler

So all this hooplah about disclosure, when in fact they are classifying more than before.

Good point, if anything all these shenanigans have made UFO information far more difficult to access by the general public.

originally posted by: numberjuggler

The stories of "Foo Fighters" go back to Military pilots in world war 2. But all we have is one FLIR video. Where is the helmet camera footage?

Lots of cases involve UFO gun camera footage and am sure they've got an archive somewhere (maybe at CIA's NPIC).. don't reckon we'll be seeing any of it mate.

Military aircraft gun cameras have filmed thousands of UFOs, according to pilot reports; however, not one frame of gun camera film has ever been released..

Missing Gun Camera UFO Footage?

originally posted by: numberjuggler

At this point there is absolutely no genuine push to make information public and understand the phenomena.

Doubt it, especially considering the backstage 'players'.

Am sure there's lots of info out there though.

• "There is no doubt in my mind that today if not many times over the past fifty years we have had the surveillance capabilities to completely monitor the activities of certain UFO flights and know exactly when they’re going, where they’re going, how they’re going, where they appear form and leave to, all the characteristics about them - we have radar based devices that will not only show the distance, direction and azimuth of an object and all that but will also how shape. We have devices the army has developed for tracking projectiles - they check the acoustic wave and when something crosses over they can immediately track that data and go back to the source.. I don’t believe any of these things fly over our country today without being known and if somebody wanted the UFO mystery to completely disappear they could in five minutes release enough data to show exactly what’s going on and is not going on."

John F. Schuessler, Executive Director of MUFON (Ret.)

Link / Video

originally posted by: F2d5thCavv2

But it is practically impossible to trust, given the record of deception and manipulation that has accompanied these reports since the 1940s.

Yes do see your point mate and personally would suggest the role of certain agencies in those aspects.

Suppose the 'science' does come through now and again though - as well as the similar actual unknown rates discussed on the first page it now looks like the French are finding the same.

• "Here you have the statistics now published on the official French website of the National Centre for Space Studies and what does it say? It says that about 28% of their UFO files are 'unknown' unidentified flying objects.

If we go back in time you had in the U.S. a very important study which was called 'Special Report 14' (PDF) by the Batelle Memorial Institute for Project Bluebook and they found a 25.5% 'unknown' rate so we are now finding these kinds of figures for the French files."

Gildas Bourdais on official French UFO research.

Video: 29:29

a reply to: karl 12

So Greenwald claims they are more prone to cover-up than before.

I would think that has to do with the fact that they would have legal problems with much of any legit disclosure.

They may need immunity to really disclose.

Greenwald mentions something called b7, a FOIA reason for denying information requests as being based on a law enforcement issue or investigation.

I wonder what that is all about? I understand national security, but what would any of this have to do with law enforcement?
A security leak problem they would have to report, maybe?

originally posted by: introufo

Greenwald mentions something called b7, a FOIA reason for denying information requests as being based on a law enforcement issue or investigation.

I wonder what that is all about?

Probably just another 'tactic' used to impede the FOIA mate - don't know if you've been following it over the years but there definitely looks to be an ongoing 'war against transparency'.

Hell there's even the Rosemary award for the worst FOIA performance (usually won by the USAF) and they're now training FOIA officers 'how to keep more information from being disclosed under FOIA'.


Secret Agreement Reveals Covert Program to Hide Reclassification from Public.


As for Greenewald he's conducted some truly great work and uncovered some truly interesting UFO documents but you've really got to wonder when you catch the NCIS FOIA Officials actually celebrating when he's denied a document release or MDR.

You've also got 'psy-ops' trained Pentagon UAP spokesperson Susan Gough actively thwarting UFO FOIA requests and the CIA basically lying through its teeth to everybody about how many UFO files they have or even if they study the subject at all (they do).

The CIA are also busy 'reclassifying' already released material and keep claiming they have 'lost' certain UFO files (just like the NSA and DIA) - it really all is one big comedy show.

CIA keep losing UFO files:


• April, 2019:

CIA Continues Trend of Losing UFO Related Documents in April of 2019



• March, 2020:

Another CIA UFO Document “Lost”



• Present:

Yet ANOTHER CIA UFO Document Goes Missing

a reply to: karl 12

I’m very aware of the crimes and duplicity of the IC...regarding UFOs and, of course, various other areas...

That’s why they are unworthy of belief, trust, or and any semblance of respect.

And any “whistleblower" that comes from the air force really has no credibility.

Regarding B7, I figure, as you say, they’re only using it as a ploy to hide things.


The very idea of this having anything to do with law enforcement is incredible unless it refers to some NDA breach...

a reply to: TDDAgain

We've speculated that the govt has been involved in cattle mutilations, but you dont hear theories of govt being involved in human abductions. It does seem overlooked as a possibility, now you mention it.

I believe there are UAPs, and I have no clue what they are.

But I think this 'disclosure' activity is perhaps the first major psyop in the newly revived Cold War, which has seen us do some sinister tricks in the past.

originally posted by: introufo

I’m very aware of the crimes and duplicity of the IC...regarding UFOs and, of course, various other areas...

That’s why they are unworthy of belief, trust, or and any semblance of respect.

Yes we're on the same page there, especially the 'trust' part - also speculation here that the IC has close involvement with CSICOP/CSI debunking outfit and I'd tend to agree.

Having quite a good time digging up old stuff so please forgive me posting more examples - did enjoy the interview below with Gersten who sued the CIA, DIA, NSA etc. over the release of UFO related government documents.

Apparently, based upon a NSA top secret affidavit (which Gersten was not allowed to see) US District Court Judge Gerhard A. Gesell dismissed the lawsuit stating that 'the continued need for secrecy far out weighed the public's right to know.'

See 0:40

Another example below where Greenewald shows how NORAD are blatantly deceiving everyone just by citing their own documents (the part where he nails NORAD about CIRVIS Military pilot UFO reports is around 0:15:00).

“Moreover, reports of unidentified flying objects which could affect national security are made in accordance with JANAP 146 or Air Force Manual 55-11, and are not part of the Blue Book system.”

Document / Thread

a reply to: karl 12

It's great stuff you're uploading...


It’s a thick wall of lies, deception, and obfuscation. No person knowing the history can believe anything out of the gov IC.

First, an army spook comes out with IC up the rear end, and now one from the air force intel, probably the worse UFO cover-up bandit mob there is, and people actually believe them.
They don't understand..THEY DONT DESERVE BELIEF!

Sort of like the devil getting religion. One has to repent first of their past crimes and come clean before they are worthy of belief or trust.
They haven’t come clean. They're still wallowing in filth.

I'm not saying I have definitive answers. However, after a long time looking at this topic here is how I think we got to where we are today.

Modern ufology's genesis can be extended back into WWII with the sightings of foo fighters and then the 'ghost rockets' reported over Scandinavia and other parts of Europe. But really began in 1947 with Kenneth Arnold's sighting and a wave of "flying saucer" reports that followed it across the USA and to a lesser extent in other parts of the world.

Project's Grudge/Sign/Blue Book all followed, trying to get to the bottom of the mystery. Even back then, there was a split between those who thought the sightings were of "interplanetary craft" and those who considered them of more mundane origins. Perhaps what was more concerning to those in power was that the mystery remained.

By 1952 the problem was growing and the number of 'unknowns' reported was the highest on record . The famous 1952 UFO overflights of Washington DC really spooked the military. They feared that if the Soviets were to attack that air defences could be compromised by a flood of UFO reports. So the Roberston Panel was put in place to dampen down interest in the subject. Meanwhile UFO reports of national security significance bypassed Blue Book and were given to the 4602nd Air Intelligence Squadron to investigate out of the public eye.

The Robertson Panel recommended, among other things :

...investigate possible offensive or defensive utilization of the phenomena for psychological warfare purposes both for and against the United States, advising those agencies charged with U.S. internal security of any pertinent findings affecting their areas of responsibility.

And that is possibly where they shot themselves in the foot. By creating a new problem for themselves.

There are still factions of people, even in govt. who believe and don't believe that UFOs represent something extra-terrestrial.

I don't believe the US military really knows too much more than the public does about UFOs. But if they could harness a new power source, or even weaponize a technology from studying UFOs they will. They also want to conceal what they don't know and use the topic for "psychological warfare" purposes.

This excessive secrecy, instead of dampening down interest, has only cemented a belief among a hardcore minority that alien and alien technology is being covered up.

So down the years a bunch of bogus stories have been circulated via alphabet friendly sources that kept the fringe ufologists chasing down rabbit holes and keep them away from the real secrets. So it doesn't fall into the wrong hands.

Whatever is going on now, appears to me, to be a ramping up in reaction to our current geopolitical situation. The US military want to ensure they have a tight control of the UFO narrative. But are also ensuring there are enough holes to keep the debates between believers, sceptics and debunkers spinning eternally. The guy who appears to be on one side might actually be on the same side with the guy who appears to be arguing with him!

UFOs are just a small part of a wider picture. The objective is to ensure ambiguity. So we don't know what the military don't want us to know. We've had 70 years of it.

originally posted by: introufo

It’s a thick wall of lies, deception, and obfuscation. No person knowing the history can believe anything out of the gov IC.

It surely is mate and never forgot this quote from Thieme.

When I delivered a speech and served on a panel recently at the National Security Agency, I was reminded by a veteran analyst that "the three legs of cover and deception are illusion, misdirection and ridicule. But the greatest of these is ridicule'.

Out Of The Closet On UFOs

Seems whilst the CIA were running around 'disseminating the gospel' (3:20) they were also globally monitoring UFOs and nuts deep investigating the phenomenon.

Newsclipping

C.I.A. memo of Aug. 1, 1952, recommends continued agency surveillance of "flying saucers," saying, "it is strongly urged, however, that no indication of C.I.A. interest or concern reach the press or public..

Suppose it's this agency's job to deceive people but they've got some decidedly shady roots and probably no accident the Smith-Mundt act got 'altered' back in 2013 allowing 'propaganda' to be legally disseminated to domestic audiences.

UFO topics could be seeing more disclosure now for a variety of reasons:
1 - random - a major accidental leak of info occurred or a major whistleblower made a decision
2 - technological development edged closer - something we built allowed us to more easily observe them
3 - ET is increasingly obvious because they want the secrecy to end and think we will benefit from knowledge of them
4 - conspiracy of distraction - our leaders are putting this info out to dominate news and reduce coverage of another problem
5 - conspiracy for NWO - when the elite are ready they'll say we have to make big changes like one world government, change in money/economic controls, population reduction in order to eventually qualify to join their galactic federation of planets
6 - conspiracy involving fake alien invasion - this has been talked about for decades, at least back to Wernher von Braun. The scarier and more immediate the threat, the faster the compliance. Make the public think their efforts and compliance to changes to centralize power and obey new rules are humanity's only chance to survive at all.