India to acquire 400 more T-90 tanks from Russia

Originally posted by longbow
I really don't understand why are they not building their tanks in India. Such a large country... It's not that difficult like modern aircrafts, for example.

I disagree. Building a good system is hard no matter what it is. Ever driven a KIA? They suck. And it's a very simple car.

I'm pretty sure there is plenty of real know-how in tank design. Engines are notoriously tricky because they are supposed to work on a variety of fuel (at least the Russian engines are).

Originally posted by rapier28
Lol, remove the gap?

and according to Sinodefence, some of Type-98s abilities are aproaching that of M1A2.

Please don't make me laugh, maybe the speed of the 98 is the same as the M1A2 but that’s about all they have in common.

The original design target of the Chinese third generation MBT was as a counter to the Soviet T-72, but the changing requirements shifted the development towards a much more sophisticated machine. The later design criteria of the Type 98 was aiming at challenging the U.S. M1A1 Abrams, while certain aspects of the actually performance of the Type 98 is approaching the standard of the M1A2.

www.sinodefence.com...

I wouls say the Type-98 matches the M1a1/2 in the areas of Speed/manouverability and fire control systems.

It has a more powerfull gun than the M1a2 and can also fire AT missiles, not to mention active laser defence.

Survivability is lower than the western tanks... but these day's it's generally first shoot first kill... and the Type-98 has a very good chance

[edit on 11-4-2005 by Lucretius]

Actually the type 98’s speed is a little less off road than the Abrams even though its about 15 tones lighter. And the fire control system of the M1A2 I think is superior to that of the 98’s not to mention that crew training and experiences play a huge role too.
The M1A2 has a 125mm gun same caliber as the 98, also I don't know how the 98’s different ammunitions perform.

The laser really doesn't have that much of an affect on the Abrams, and I would say the Abrams armor is better that the 98’s. And are you implying that the 98 can fire on the Abrams first?

Over all the 98 is a very good tank but head to head with an Abrams it would not last long. The T-72 has an 125mm smoothbore gun too, but in 91 their rounds couldn't even penetrate the armor of the M1A1.

Currently, the M1A1 and the M1A2 are absolutely unparalled in the realm of armored warfare. These are the ultimate in battletanks, absolutely fearsome weapons.

I guess the biggest limitation of the Abrams is that it is a tank. Without fuel, maintainence, and protection, the Abrams is no more safe than the T-90.

Another thing to consider. In the Persian Gulf War and Iraq War, U.S. tanks had a huge advantage because it was fought on open terrain. In more complicated terrain, things change drastically.

Originally posted by WestPoint23
Actually the type 98’s speed is a little less off road than the Abrams even though its about 15 tones lighter. And the fire control system of the M1A2 I think is superior to that of the 98’s not to mention that crew training and experiences play a huge role too.
The M1A2 has a 125mm gun same caliber as the 98, also I don't know how the 98’s different ammunitions perform.

Since when did the M1 tanks get fitted with 125mm guns ? They only have guns of 120mm unlkess they've started to buy their tank guns from the Russians.

I concur, M1A1s and M1A2s have the 120mm gun.

While we're on the subject of India, how is their armored warfare anyway?

india now has arjun although in small numbers slightly over weight.
but its armour protection is top class with homemade armour name
"Kanchan" and total knowhow of armour is abovetopsecret..
they only say that it can with stand all kind of ammunation like
tank shell and missile.

Arjun now has lahat antitank missile with range of 8km.
see pic



arjun is top class similar to western tank but some arms lobbeys against arjun.they want india to relay on import of defence products.

arjun close up

Originally posted by skippytjc
Mmmmm....I wonder how much food the public of India could have with $1 billion dollars? One of the worlds poorest nations. But lets send that money to another country instead for weapons.

I wonder how many people can get good health issurance in the USA for all that money spend on war. Not to mention the many homeless and people living in poverty that could benefit.

Hypocracy reigns in the US .....

Originally posted by motionknight
I wonder how many people can get good health issurance in the USA for all that money spend on war. Not to mention the many homeless and people living in poverty that could benefit.

Hypocracy reigns in the US .....

You beat me to it. I was thinking the exact same thing.

We in America shouldn't criticize other nations for military spending because our great military is a result of excessive military spending! Wow!!!

I have been following this thread.I am an Indian.I firmly belive INDIA has to develop the ARJUN and the LCA if it has to be capable.The Russian tanks as it has been proven in the AFGHAN conflict and the IRAQ qar are just no good. They just bust open like a nut.We all know how a bunch of AI-MI ABRAHAMS dessimated the Russian T-80's an T-72's.The reason why we have such problems of rejection by the army for the ARJUN is because its radically different from the Russian tanks although it may use the T-72.Secondly the Indian govt and defence agencies are ready to shell BILLIONS of Greenbuck to buy foriegne tanks,aircrafts and AWACS rather than fund the indeginous technologies.Their lame excuse is that it isnt battle proven or tested. The fact remains that LCA today has one of the world most advanced avionics under its cockpit. The fact of it being light and small makes it stealthy by default.Its configuration is just mindbogling and unbelivable for an aircraft of this size.Another good example is the ALH which is being marketed by ISREALI's & India.There are a bunch of UAV's which are very good being developed by DRDO.But the fact remains that this will never shoot off the drawing board just because we are ready to wait 4-5 years to get Sukhoi MKI's but not enough money and resouces for our own LCA's & MCA's. We have some of the world class technologies being developed indeginously.Unlike the chinese we are much better technically sound. The need of the hour is to back up ARJUN and not T-90's which not even the RUSIAN army is ready to buy.Fortunately our enemies that is PAKISTAN and CHINA don't have any MI-AI Abrahams they have 3rd rate russian hardware.The main advantage of an indeginous TANK is availabilty of spare and easy upgradation.And also the advantage of pulling of various variants.

Jai Hind

Originally posted by sweatmonicaIdo

Originally posted by motionknight
I wonder how many people can get good health issurance in the USA for all that money spend on war. Not to mention the many homeless and people living in poverty that could benefit.

Hypocracy reigns in the US .....

You beat me to it. I was thinking the exact same thing.

We in America shouldn't criticize other nations for military spending because our great military is a result of excessive military spending! Wow!!!

Esp. on mindless unecessary conflicts like the Iraq war..
How much did that cost the US?..
A 100 billion USD??

I think people forget just how expensive creating and maintaining a military is. Even for purely defensive purposes, a military would still be too expensive. Adding onto it just drives the cost to the next level of reality.

Originally posted by ajju
I have been following this thread.I am an Indian.I firmly belive INDIA has to develop the ARJUN and the LCA if it has to be capable.The Russian tanks as it has been proven in the AFGHAN conflict and the IRAQ qar are just no good. They just bust open like a nut.We all know how a bunch of AI-MI ABRAHAMS dessimated the Russian T-80's an T-72's.The reason why we have such problems of rejection by the army for the ARJUN is because its radically different from the Russian tanks although it may use the T-72.Secondly the Indian govt and defence agencies are ready to shell BILLIONS of Greenbuck to buy foriegne tanks,aircrafts and AWACS rather than fund the indeginous technologies.Their lame excuse is that it isnt battle proven or tested. The fact remains that LCA today has one of the world most advanced avionics under its cockpit. The fact of it being light and small makes it stealthy by default.Its configuration is just mindbogling and unbelivable for an aircraft of this size.Another good example is the ALH which is being marketed by ISREALI's & India.There are a bunch of UAV's which are very good being developed by DRDO.But the fact remains that this will never shoot off the drawing board just because we are ready to wait 4-5 years to get Sukhoi MKI's but not enough money and resouces for our own LCA's & MCA's. We have some of the world class technologies being developed indeginously.Unlike the chinese we are much better technically sound. The need of the hour is to back up ARJUN and not T-90's which not even the RUSIAN army is ready to buy.Fortunately our enemies that is PAKISTAN and CHINA don't have any MI-AI Abrahams they have 3rd rate russian hardware.The main advantage of an indeginous TANK is availabilty of spare and easy upgradation.And also the advantage of pulling of various variants.

Jai Hind

Well, you now have one less enemy. As of April 11, China is your best friend.

I've got to hand it to you, the Indian military is certainly a world-class military. Fourth-largest and insanely powerful, I'd have to rate you guys as the strongest regional military power.

Now that you have China on your side, the China-India duo is impeccable...

Originally posted by sweatmonicaIdo

Originally posted by ajju
I have been following this thread.I am an Indian.I firmly belive INDIA has to develop the ARJUN and the LCA if it has to be capable.The Russian tanks as it has been proven in the AFGHAN conflict and the IRAQ qar are just no good. They just bust open like a nut.We all know how a bunch of AI-MI ABRAHAMS dessimated the Russian T-80's an T-72's.The reason why we have such problems of rejection by the army for the ARJUN is because its radically different from the Russian tanks although it may use the T-72.Secondly the Indian govt and defence agencies are ready to shell BILLIONS of Greenbuck to buy foriegne tanks,aircrafts and AWACS rather than fund the indeginous technologies.Their lame excuse is that it isnt battle proven or tested. The fact remains that LCA today has one of the world most advanced avionics under its cockpit. The fact of it being light and small makes it stealthy by default.Its configuration is just mindbogling and unbelivable for an aircraft of this size.Another good example is the ALH which is being marketed by ISREALI's & India.There are a bunch of UAV's which are very good being developed by DRDO.But the fact remains that this will never shoot off the drawing board just because we are ready to wait 4-5 years to get Sukhoi MKI's but not enough money and resouces for our own LCA's & MCA's. We have some of the world class technologies being developed indeginously.Unlike the chinese we are much better technically sound. The need of the hour is to back up ARJUN and not T-90's which not even the RUSIAN army is ready to buy.Fortunately our enemies that is PAKISTAN and CHINA don't have any MI-AI Abrahams they have 3rd rate russian hardware.The main advantage of an indeginous TANK is availabilty of spare and easy upgradation.And also the advantage of pulling of various variants.

Jai Hind

Well, you now have one less enemy. As of April 11, China is your best friend.

I've got to hand it to you, the Indian military is certainly a world-class military. Fourth-largest and insanely powerful, I'd have to rate you guys as the strongest regional military power.

Now that you have China on your side, the China-India duo is impeccable...

China is like USA is not trustworty but we have to live togather only for politics
we never forget 1962 and Chinas support to Pakistan

Originally posted by mirza2003
China is like USA is not trustworty but we have to live togather only for politics
we never forget 1962 and Chinas support to Pakistan

I'd treasure the partnership for now. It could lead to really great things...

I guess the biggest limitation of the Abrams is that it is a tank. Without fuel, maintainence, and protection, the Abrams is no more safe than the T-90.

So is every other tank in the world. And I also think that a good tank is useless without a good trained crew and all of the support a tank needs.

Another thing to consider. In the Persian Gulf War and Iraq War, U.S. tanks had a huge advantage because it was fought on open terrain. In more complicated terrain, things change drastically.

Of course in a mountainous terrain the Abrams will probably not be used as much. The U.S. would probably rely helicopters and jets.

And yeah the M1A2 has a 120mm gun, my bad.

Can't we all simply just get along with one another

Originally posted by Grey Fox
Can't we all simply just get along with one another

LOL Sadly, there will always be one who doesn't want to get along with one another.