India to acquire 400 more T-90 tanks from Russia

how many time we told here that arjun design built with german help that why you seeing here more influnce of leopard on arjun.

did not you frustated here you better check another thread
[who say china did not copy]


[edit on 15-5-2005 by mirza2003]

Thats why you see, India cannot design anything on her own, need some German help...Look at my post. I showed you so many different things between the Type-98 and the T-72, see if you can tell me otherwise.

Here you go:



Take a good look at that. I will now take my time to show you how different the Type-98 is from the T-72.

1. Turret

As you can see in the picture, both turrets are very different. The T-72 has a smaller turret, while the Type-98 has a bigger turret, slightly similar to the one found on the M1. It is also slightly sloped forward. The T-72 turret is more rounded while the Type-98 turret is more angular. At first look, the 125mm gun on the Type-98 might look like a copy of the T-72's one, but it is actually developed by the Chinese from its own 120mm gun.

2. Chassis

The chassis on the Type-98 is obviously longer. Both tanks can carry extra fuel at the back. This might be Russian-inspired,since both the T-72 and T-80 has this feature. There is not much to talk about here, but both are very different and there would be no way to develope the Type-98 chassis from the T-72 one.

3. Tracks

The 2 tracks are completely different. The Type-98 tracks are obviously longer,and the wheels are spaced out more, while in the T-72, the tracks are very close to each other. The gaps between the wheels in the Type-98 is uneven, with the middle tracks having more space, while in the T-72 the distance between the wheels are quite even.

4. Others

The Type-98 is obviously larger. It has an autoloader, and the Dazzler laser system, which has attracted a lot of attention. It also has heavier armor than the T-72. Basically, the Type-98 is a heavy tank which did not use any components from the T-72.

Originally posted by mirza2003


how many time we told here that arjun design built with german help that why you seeing here more influnce of leopard on arjun.

did not you frustated here you better check another thread
[who say china did not copy]

[edit on 15-5-2005 by mirza2003]

you haven't said jack about german help
when was this mentioned

it doesn't even mention it at bharat-rakshak.com

yeah that thread was started by you now this thread to mock china. this thread is mocking india. indegenious. . might as well buy the leopard 2 saved you 16years development and this mocking

well the rest of that thread became pro-chinese .. check it out

conclusion of the thread ..legally copied selling to the chinese public

[edit on 15-5-2005 by chinawhite]

type xx [what so ever you called ]is not new design taken palce inside china but ripoff russian tank

we accpected that our design is made with assitance of germans at least we are true to accpect that .

but where are you stand

read my thread about copy product of china.

[edit on 15-5-2005 by mirza2003]

Originally posted by mirza2003

type xx [what so ever you called ]is not new design taken palce inside china but ripoff russian tank

we accpected that our design is made with assitance of germans at least we are true to accpect that .
but we are you stand

read my thread about copy product of china.

what??

any proof links???

any solid edvidence. hehehe back up your claim

When you say we who do you refer to???
i think the word you mean is Me not We

Give me the thread. I would love to read it.


What? From the Type-59 and Type-62 onwards everything was either indigenously made or indigenously developed with Russian influences but NO direct help at all, all while you Indians are crawling to the Russians begging for stuff.

If you can't prove that the Type-98 is a ripoff of a Russian tank, then shut it. Throwing hissy fits will not help you show us which Russian tanks the Type-98 copied.

Again, India can't make anything on their own, they don't copy but all they can do is buy from Russia

full ten pages for glory of china

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by chinawhite
holy crap nice find

the hull of these two look almost identical on the outside even the space between the wheels are the same

good link to more pics of leopard 2

chinawhite.. You are free to debunk all claims that chinese tanks are copies which come frm ppl who might not know so much abt chinese developments..

You bullshiet abt India copying stuff.. then you deal with me..

lets see now..

China can defeat India in a war over Tibet.. wasted
China has equal a/c operability over tibet as compared to India... wasted
China can tow artis into place to carry out strikes..wasted

You want to take this leopard thing into debate too??!
Just let me know..

You too w4rlord..






[edit on 15-5-2005 by Daedalus3]

Read my U2U

You know how irritating it gets when some dumbo who says everything that you have is a copy. Well lets see then, the Arjun is a copy of the Leo 2

one prove from me more to come just wait
Type 98 Main Battle Tank
ZTZ-98 / WZ-123

The Type 98 was first introduced to the public during the parade on October 1, 1999, marking the 50th Anniverary of the founding of the People's Republic China. While initially confused as the Type 96, further study revealed that the 18 tanks on display during the parade were in fact a member of the Type 80 family of Chinese Main Battle Tanks.

The Type 98, also known as the WZ-123 MBT, is based on the Russian T-72 and even features a hull design similar to the Russian tank.

The Type 98 program is believed to have begun sometime in the early 1990s as the Chinese explored design changes to the Type 90-II.

Armed with a 125mm smoothbore main gun fed by a carousel autoloader the Type 98 weighs roughly fifty tons and is powered by a new 1200-hp diesel engine.

While the hull of the Type 98 resembles the T-72, the turret does not, instead it is "box-like". The turret front is slightly sloped and angled, with the turret sides being nearly vertical, and the turret roof has a slightly domed appearance. The Type 98's turret is larger than those of previous Chinese tanks, and extends forward, creating a gap between the lower edge of the turret and the hull deck.

The main gun's fire control system is fitted with a stablized independent sight for the commander.

The Type 98 also includes some type of previously unknown active self-defense system. The two components of this active self defense system are mounted on the turret roof. The LWR (Laser Warning Receiver) is mounted behind commander's hatch, and a high-powered laser weapon mounted behind gunner's hatch which is employed against the source of the enemy's laser illumination.

There is speculation that the Type 98's armor is either based on, or is influenced by Russia's T-80U MBT. This is based on similarities found in the two tanks, including cavities in the turret's frontal armor which are covered by plates, placed flush and bolted to the turret's roof.


www.globalsecurity.org...

As I said deal with those ppl aptly.. They may or may not know abt chinese tech and how much they copy or not..
You know my views on copying..
Its irrelevant actually..
Arjun is not a copy of the leopard.. Its hull structure is v similar to that of the leopard but thats it..
Yes there was german help I think...I'm not sure..
And if the WAS german help then that does not make is a copy...
Copy => unauthorised replication/modification

Its funny how you say wasted when your edvidence is out of your mouth. The disscusions your refering to are still on going

wasted how??

what about those threads.
umm... my view is that i won all those threads

i wasted you in the artillery thing. END OF STORY.

Range of artillery 39km - airbase 30km across border - still 9km in chinese territory whats the problem?? terrain .. nope even terrain i even posted pictures.

Your arguement about you need roads for artillery.. dumbest thing ever.

why couldn't china launch a surprise artillery bombardment.. you haven't even a stread of edvidence not out of your mouth. How much logictics does 20 artillery tubes + men need ?? not much. we're not talking about a army division

tibet thread. i mentioned troop levels.
china has more troops there. same level of tech for the army. Are you trying to say that china can't defend chinese terrioty??..

india might not have more airbases in the region but on average a chinese airbase is a lot more bigger than a indian one.

You have just given me airbases nothing more. it doesn't take into account how much aircraft each base has. And it is very suprising that china only has one airbase in the whole region.. Is the map you showed me Known chinese airbases ?? have you ever throught that the map is known bases??


What about the Arjun being a copy of the leopard 2. The only person that made this reference is Mizra2003. Don't make me waste you in this disscusion to. Read my post carefully this time dontmake a stupid accusation again

To Mirza:

Grow a brain. That is a Hummer and GM sold the license to produce it to Dongfeng motors. You should really read the reports before you just copy and paste part of it.

Chinese piracy? Deal with it, China is not the only one who pirates things. And no, we are not talking about the damn military, we are talking about DVDs and VCDs! Heck, even the great USA has a piracy problem

You don't have any case with the Chinese copying anything since they MANUFACTURE IT WITH LICENSES legally. If you don't like that then its your problem. Too much negative hype has been with the Chinese. Either you are jealous of our sucess (Su-30MKI is produced in India with licenses too,you know?) or you know nothing about China. In fact, China has not copied (as in really copy) anything since the cultral revolution.

Basically, many people expect China to produce their own stuff, but since
China is now the US's closest threat yet still using Russian tech, they get bashed for copying when actually it is more like they are buying and using Russian tech.

I don't know why global security says that, it is a reliable source, but it is not that easy to just take the chassis and make it larger. You don't believe FAS saying the LCA is lousier than the FC-1, I don't believe this either.

All the chassises of all the world's current MBTs look similar to each other. Having said this, the Type-98's chassis could even be from a Challenger 2. If I am correct, then nobody actually took a close inspection at the Type-98's chassis, I'm talking about actually looking at the tank, not some pictures on the internet.

mirza frankly I've recently lost faith in global security..

They said "FC-1 has better avionics than the LCA" and I can't find better avionics
on board the FC-1 as compared to the MiG21 bison even even!!

And you and I know that the LCA has better stuff than the bison

Originally posted by mirza2003
one prove from me more to come just wait
Type 98 Main Battle Tank
ZTZ-98 / WZ-123

The Type 98 was first introduced to the public during the parade on October 1, 1999, marking the 50th Anniverary of the founding of the People's Republic China. While initially confused as the Type 96, further study revealed that the 18 tanks on display during the parade were in fact a member of the Type 80 family of Chinese Main Battle Tanks.

The Type 98, also known as the WZ-123 MBT, is based on the Russian T-72 and even features a hull design similar to the Russian tank.

The Type 98 program is believed to have begun sometime in the early 1990s as the Chinese explored design changes to the Type 90-II.

Armed with a 125mm smoothbore main gun fed by a carousel autoloader the Type 98 weighs roughly fifty tons and is powered by a new 1200-hp diesel engine.

While the hull of the Type 98 resembles the T-72, the turret does not, instead it is "box-like". The turret front is slightly sloped and angled, with the turret sides being nearly vertical, and the turret roof has a slightly domed appearance. The Type 98's turret is larger than those of previous Chinese tanks, and extends forward, creating a gap between the lower edge of the turret and the hull deck.

The main gun's fire control system is fitted with a stablized independent sight for the commander.

The Type 98 also includes some type of previously unknown active self-defense system. The two components of this active self defense system are mounted on the turret roof. The LWR (Laser Warning Receiver) is mounted behind commander's hatch, and a high-powered laser weapon mounted behind gunner's hatch which is employed against the source of the enemy's laser illumination.

There is speculation that the Type 98's armor is either based on, or is influenced by Russia's T-80U MBT. This is based on similarities found in the two tanks, including cavities in the turret's frontal armor which are covered by plates, placed flush and bolted to the turret's roof.


www.globalsecurity.org...

Thats a old artilce

anyway as your article says speculation

Another Round

(Jeez,I need to post 2 times in a row to get my point across)

Daedelus, you are right, thats what I'm talking about. It gets tiring when people like stealth spy just look at a post and say "China can't make anything! They can only copy!". Like you said, a copy is something that is copied from something else without autorisation. The Type-98 obviously either has that autorisation (How else did they get T-72s and T-80s?) or was an indigenious product.

And no, the Arjun is not a copy of the Leo 2. I posted that to show how irritating it gets when stupid people without any knowledge whatsoever just look at something and decide that it looks similar to something else that they saw before, so it is a copy.

You fools have closed 2 decent threads now!!
When will this stop!!

I think we all need to chill out now, before this thread gets closed too.

Originally posted by Daedalus3
mirza frankly I've recently lost faith in global security..

They said "FC-1 has better avionics than the LCA" and I can't find better avionics
on board the FC-1 as compared to the MiG21 bison even even!!

And you and I know that the LCA has better stuff than the bison

dont lose faith yet

you cant find any because your comparing radars hehehe

read the article not bits of it..

it mentions new avonics developed by china and pakistan