Wagner PMC “rebellion”

a reply to: TheGreazel

Interesting that Putin said he won't "prosecute" him. Nothing about him not being killed.
He has form for offing "traitors".

And, where is Putin?

a reply to: Oldcarpy2

Because that's what the west wants...

Think about it...you of all people have spoken about how Putin will silence any opposition by whatever means. Poison or prison whatever he has to do. So why not now? Why not ever in the lead up to this? No trumped up charges no false flag strike on him nothing. Obviously Prigozhin didn't have the support needed or else we would be having a different discussion. Hell...even in America or the UK something like this wouldn't just be let go as this was. Hell we are still chasing J6ers and that was nothing compared to this.

If not a ruse what else explains why this man is alive when Russia had every opportunity to kill him or imprison him?

a reply to: TheGreazel

And if it was a ploy to look weak and rush Ukraine into a fully committed offensive which they were prepared for what then? I am sure Putin would be all smiles and giggles to take a bunch of the west's money if that was how it went down. This guy doesn't lead a merc outfit for this long and garner this much respect with this soldiers by not thinking such things through...especially as they are "a bunch of criminals" which is what I always hear. Criminals will cut your throught for the kind of money he makes and the life he lives.

a reply to: Oldcarpy2

With what we know about Putin i doubt he is gonna let this slide , gonna be interesting to see how he deals with this problem.

a reply to: RickyD

Give it time.

A ruse, for what?

This has damaged Putin.

a reply to: Oldcarpy2

Well if its not a ruse the guy is a dead man walking. Guess we will see in time...but I still see no reason he would be alive if it wasn't a ruse...and you haven't given me one.

a reply to: RickyD

I gave you a reason why it might not be a ruse to get nukes to Belarus?

And sorry, I'm not privy to what is going on.

Bearing in mind Putin's rant about betrayal and punishment of traitors etc, I would guess he's a dead man.

But who knows?

Let's see.

I have no answers.

a reply to: RickyD

Thats a lot of work and loss of face for putin for a maybe.

I don't think the Ukranians would do anything unless the frontline situation would change in their favor.

Like a sudden Russian withdrawal from these positions, but we didn't hear or see anything about that yet.

originally posted by: Oldcarpy2
This has damaged Putin.

Damaged in which way?

1. How the west thinks about him? Doesn't matter anyway as he already is "the bad guy".
2. How the general population thinks about him? He gets high praise everywhere within Russia (as far as I can see, but please feel free to prove me wrong, always willing to take in new information) for defusing a very difficult position very quickly and without any bloodshed.
3. How his allies think about him? They understand that this war is already extremely difficult with the full force of the western world, short only of direct national military ground forces being involved, directed against Russia including bribery, blackmailing, and insane amount of information warfare.
4. His own military leadership role? Everyone understands that the situation is complex and feared nothing more than bloodshed Russian vs Russian. And again, Putin gets high praise for resolving a very difficult situation and potentially extremely bloody situation without any casualties (other then, in the over scheme, some minor accidently).

So, how exactly is Putin being damaged here?

originally posted by: Oldcarpy2
A ruse, for what?

This event has so many layers, and I believe we will never learn the full truth. We also need to keep in mind that some of the events are more than one-dimensional, even though all media, most of the experts and all politians want to convince us about the one-dimensionality of events (which is completely ridiculous and stupid).

However, one very typical Russian thing is to stir up the hornets nest (so to speak) and see who is loyal and who is a traitor. This event follows the exact blueprint, 100% textbook material. Within that day, traitors were unmasked (as they chose sides) and loyalties confirmed (at least for now). Who spoke out in support of Putin, who didn't speak out? Who spoke out for the unity of Russia but not for Putin? Who switched sides, didn't do what they were supposed to do? This kind of knowledge is invaluable !

Not saying that this was the purpose of it, but it definitely is a nice side-effect. Keep in mind, this event has many dimensions.

a reply to: RickyD

What would the point of the ruse be? He can't be that desperate for money, why would he agree to it?

a reply to: Cutepants

Out traitors...covert redeployment...draw an committed attack into a trap. Those are all more plausible than this dude actually revolted and occupied Rostav and just gets to skate with no consequences.

originally posted by: Torlin
3. How his allies think about him? They understand that this war is already extremely difficult with the full force of the western world, short only of direct national military ground forces being involved, directed against Russia including bribery, blackmailing, and insane amount of information warfare.

What are you saying here? If they think Putin is in extreme difficulties, wouldn't that make them more likely to doubt him and not less?

1. How the west thinks about him? Doesn't matter anyway as he already is "the bad guy".

Couldn't be more wrong. Putin's and Russia's whole fate depends on this. He's going to hold out until 2024 hoping a softer US president will be elected.

2. How the general population thinks about him? He gets high praise everywhere within Russia (as far as I can see, but please feel free to prove me wrong, always willing to take in new information) for defusing a very difficult position very quickly and without any bloodshed.

I happened like two days ago... where are you getting this information?

a reply to: RickyD

The simplest explanation is that both were bluffing to some degree. The cost of a civil war would be loosing the war against Ukraine, right? So they can't chimp out all the way.

Out traitors...covert redeployment...draw an committed attack into a trap.

No way, that's like peeing in your pants in winter. He didn't just let Priogzhin get away with (so far) but all his men too. The guys who shot helicopters and planes deep inside Russia. You got to think about this like a ruler and not a private person: he lost the monopoly on violence and he made a trait against and Prigo and his guy and walked it back.

a reply to: RickyD

Wagner was not at the front anymore they had pulled back.

a reply to: Phatal87

My guess is that the goal this stunt was meant to have is to make people in larger russian cities a little afraid.

Keep people on their toes and in a straight line.

originally posted by: Lucidparadox
a reply to: Phatal87

Honestly nothing smells right with this whole thing. No theory really makes sense. Its just really bizzare. The ONLY narrative that makes sense to me really is...

Prigozhin genuinely gets upset and wants to teach Putin a lesson. He wants to get revenge. That was hisnonly plan and he didnt think it through (Insaw reports that he and his troops were calling their families letting them know they may day).

Once he got rolling, it was obvious Russia had all of its assets in Ukraine without anything protecting home. Putin left the king wide open for attack.

Prigozhin gets excited, starts heading to Moscow, then realizes, he doesnt have any plan for taking command over an entire country. He doesnt have the resources logistics or knowledge to pull that off. Its like a dog chasing a car, what would they do with it once they got it.

Anyway, his advance scared Putin and the Oligarchs out of their souls, they bought his bluff and paid him off to stop his advance.

Dude is probably ultra wealthy now without the responsibility of running or taking over a country.


Thats the only thing that makes sense to me.

If this were the case, then he dies sooner rather than later.

a reply to: Oldcarpy2

Why would he say that?? Well as bait to lure in more meat for a grinder of course, which clearly is happening. They lost almost another thousand troops (800+) in the last 24 hours, not to mention the armor and artillery losses during their continued attempt to break the defensive lines.

I could add images as proof if youd like. They may be a bit graphic though.

A softer president? The current one can’t walk Anywhere near stairs, let alone string a sentence together coherently.

It doesn’t get much softer then a president who has to ask Nancy Pelosi before he acts.

a reply to: Cutepants

It begs the question, who did you have in mind as softer the FJB?

a reply to: Dalamax

Softer on Russia

a reply to: worldstarcountry

Some proof might help?