Corrupt DOJ Gives Evidence of What They Say Are Donald Trump Crimes - to His Lawyers.

originally posted by: nugget1
If Trump's defense team can't view the Top Secret documents how will we ever know they were Top Secret? What am I missing?

The DOJ went so far as to block the "Special Master" from seeing them!

www.courthousenews.com...

Even people who "follow" these developments don't comprehend how many Dominos (high level people in government) will fall, if the process of exposing the first one is allowed to occur!

a reply to: carewemust

The special master chose not to see them. He offered Trump's lawyers the opportunity to explain why documents bearing classified markings would be considered personal documents. They failed to do so. Therefore, he returned those documents back to their rightful owner. The US government.

originally posted by: 1947boomer
Trump is being indicted under the Espionage Act of 1917.

It's like Russia Gate 2.0. They knew they could not get Trump on anything dealing with the actual documents in general, especially after Obama's Executive Order 13526, so now they are suggesting he gave or sold secrets to another country...OK

a reply to: rickymouse

American culture loves a person who fights "evil" and wins.

Rocky, Batman, Luke Skywalker, Donald Trump(in progress).

a reply to: Xtrozero

(e)Whoever having unauthorized possession of, access to, or control over any document, writing, code book, signal book, sketch, photograph, photographic negative, blueprint, plan, map, model, instrument, appliance, or note relating to the national defense, or information relating to the national defense which information the possessor has reason to believe could be used to the injury of the United States or to the advantage of any foreign nation, willfully communicates, delivers, transmits or causes to be communicated, delivered, or transmitted, or attempts to communicate, deliver, transmit or cause to be communicated, delivered, or transmitted the same to any person not entitled to receive it, or willfully retains the same and fails to deliver it to the officer or employee of the United States entitled to receive it

Where does it say anything about selling information to another country?

originally posted by: Threadbare

Where does it say anything about selling information to another country?

(e)Whoever having unauthorized possession of, access to, or control over any document, writing, code book, signal book, sketch, photograph, photographic negative, blueprint, plan, map, model, instrument, appliance, or note relating to the national defense, or information relating to the national defense which information the possessor has reason to believe could be used to the injury of the United States or to the advantage of any foreign nation, willfully communicates, delivers, transmits or causes to be communicated, delivered, or transmitted, or attempts to communicate, deliver, transmit or cause to be communicated, delivered, or transmitted the same to any person not entitled to receive it, or willfully retains the same and fails to deliver it to the officer or employee of the United States entitled to receive it

Jesus. just read it... I said give or sell. I went back and looked at the 50 or so cases of people tried under this Act and in all cases they were either spies or people selling information to a foreign nation.

Update 6.24.2023

THE DOJ WANTS TO DELAY THE TRIAL TO DECEMBER 2023, vs. the August 14th date Judge Aileen Cannon was shooting for.

The DOJ says Trump's defense lawyers need Top Secret security clearances. It will take longer than August for them to get those clearances.

Source: thehill.com...

QUESTION: Who approves these Top Secret Security Clearances? Please don't tell me it's the DOJ.

6.25.2023

THE REAL REASON why Special Counsel Jack Smith suddenly changed his mind about an "ASAP Speedy Start" of the Trump document's trial.

Wants it delayed from August to December: theconservativetreehouse.com...

Remember: The top levels of our DOJ/FBI are CORRUPT.

originally posted by: carewemust

originally posted by: nugget1
If Trump's defense team can't view the Top Secret documents how will we ever know they were Top Secret? What am I missing?

The DOJ went so far as to block the "Special Master" from seeing them!

www.courthousenews.com...

Even people who "follow" these developments don't comprehend how many Dominos (high level people in government) will fall, if the process of exposing the first one is allowed to occur!

Yeah, you evidently didn't read the article you cited or understand how the DOJ doesn't want to establish a bad precedent. They didn't want the Special Master to view the classified and declassified documents because they didn't belong to Trump now that he was no longer the president. From the article cited in courthouse news:

“The district court appointed the special master to review claims of privilege and for the return of personal property, but applicant has no plausible claim of privilege in or ownership of government records bearing classification markings,” Solicitor General Elizabeth Prelogar wrote in the government’s brief. “As the court of appeals recognized, applicant thus has no basis to demand special-master review of those records. Applicant does not acknowledge, much less attempt to rebut, the court’s careful analysis of those issues.”

And guess what? The 11th Circuit Court panel ruled in the DOJ's favor and SCOTUS didn't take the case. Never mind that this article was from 10/11/22 and is old news.

Oh yeah, Dominos will fall, if by that you mean a lot of Domino's pizza will be eaten.

You love to make assertions that are not backed up by any facts, yet on the other hand refuse to accept evidence against your guy, and keep claiming that his prosecution is all because of the "corrupt" government.

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: 1947boomer
Trump is being indicted under the Espionage Act of 1917.

It's like Russia Gate 2.0. They knew they could not get Trump on anything dealing with the actual documents in general, especially after Obama's Executive Order 13526, so now they are suggesting he gave or sold secrets to another country...OK

No, the DOJ has not yet suggested that. He's being prosecuted for holding onto the documents and showing and talking about the documents to people without security clearances, and for obstructing justice by lying to the DOJ about the documents, and attempting to move them around, to hide them from the FBI/DOJ. And so yes, they are prosecuting him on something having to do with retaining the actual documents. And I read Obama's Executive Order 13526, and don't see how it helps the GOP's crime lord's case.

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: Threadbare

Where does it say anything about selling information to another country?

(e)Whoever having unauthorized possession of, access to, or control over any document, writing, code book, signal book, sketch, photograph, photographic negative, blueprint, plan, map, model, instrument, appliance, or note relating to the national defense, or information relating to the national defense which information the possessor has reason to believe could be used to the injury of the United States or to the advantage of any foreign nation, willfully communicates, delivers, transmits or causes to be communicated, delivered, or transmitted, or attempts to communicate, deliver, transmit or cause to be communicated, delivered, or transmitted the same to any person not entitled to receive it, or willfully retains the same and fails to deliver it to the officer or employee of the United States entitled to receive it

Jesus. just read it... I said give or sell. I went back and looked at the 50 or so cases of people tried under this Act and in all cases they were either spies or people selling information to a foreign nation.

You're the one who needs to read it better or brush up on their knowledge of conjunctions, for which I suggest the following:



Once again:

Whoever having unauthorized possession of, access to, or control over any document, writing, code book, signal book, sketch, photograph, photographic negative, blueprint, plan, map, model, instrument, appliance, or note relating to the national defense, or information relating to the national defense which information the possessor has reason to believe could be used to the injury of the United States or to the advantage of any foreign nation, willfully communicates, delivers, transmits or causes to be communicated, delivered, or transmitted, or attempts to communicate, deliver, transmit or cause to be communicated, delivered, or transmitted the same to any person not entitled to receive it, or willfully retains the same and fails to deliver it to the officer or employee of the United States entitled to receive it

Now I'll admit that this long-winded statement with many commas and conjunctions could use a couple of semicolons to make it clearer, but in particular that last phrase,

or willfully retains the same and fails to deliver it to the officer or employee of the United States entitled to receive it

is the primary one alleged to be violated, but the previous one as well,

or cause to be communicated, delivered, or transmitted the same to any person not entitled to receive it,

Also applies in at least several instances, at least one of which has taped evidence and multiple witnesses.

These two clauses are the reason Trump is being prosecuted. Stop trying to claim otherwise.

originally posted by: carewemust
6.25.2023

THE REAL REASON why Special Counsel Jack Smith suddenly changed his mind about an "ASAP Speedy Start" of the Trump document's trial.

Wants it delayed from August to December: theconservativetreehouse.com...

Remember: The top levels of our DOJ/FBI are CORRUPT.

The article you cited doesn't say why the DOJ asked for the delay. This article does:

ABC News first reported the filing, which cites the need for prosecutorial staff to obtain security clearances as one of the key reasons for their requested delay past the original trial date in August.

Special counsel Jack Smith asks to delay Trump trial over hoard of secret documents

It may be that it will take Trump's lawyers additional time to get security clearances as well.

Remember: Trump defenders are DISINGENUOUS in how they portray matters.

Your signature of the falsely attributed quote to James Clapper confirms this, as I have told you multiple times now. But go ahead and disprove me, by providing a link to this quote. I googled the phrase,

DNI JAMES CLAPPER It was President Obama who gave the order to target the Trump Campaign

and got no results with this. I even tried the quote in parentheses, but found nothing either.

originally posted by: Threadbare
a reply to: 1947boomer

Well said.

Furthermore, any document mentioned in the indictment was done so with the approval of the classifying agency.

Also, if these documents were not damaging to Trump why would the DOJ be using them to charge Trump with crimes, knowing that Trump's lawyers, the judge, and the jury would all be privy to their comments?

The DOJ has a conviction rate of near 90%. They don't charge cases they don't think they can win. And the fact that they've provided their witness list this early shows their confidence.

aren't they declassified already?

lol.

dems will lie about anything.

start impeachment of joe, it'll pass the house.
it won't get the senate votes but neither did trump.

then do it again.

The delay makes one thing clear: The DOJ doen't actually want a speedy trial, all claims to the contrary notwithstanding. They want to drag this out. This is lawfare, not anything like real law enforcement.

a reply to: 1947boomer

Fact, the lawyers don't "NEED" any level of clearance to view even the top secret documents if they have a "Need to know". Technically, exceptions can be made in urgent need to know instances. The clearance process for a top secret clearance can take 12-18 months or more.

a reply to: MrInquisitive

"And I read Obama's Executive Order 13526"


You therefore know that information can not be classified in order to cover criminal activity.


www.archives.gov...

Sec. 1.7. Classification Prohibitions and Limitations.

(a) In no case shall information be classified, continue to be maintained as classified, or fail to be declassified in order to:

(1) conceal violations of law, inefficiency, or administrative error;

(2) prevent embarrassment to a person, organization, or agency;

(3) restrain competition; or

Looks like 1 and 2 have been violated repeatedly the last few years.

Man, I wonder why the DOJ has not reached out to some of you. Your understand of the law better than the folks involved is amazing.

You can repeat endlessly what the media is telling you but that does not make it correct. It is an interpretation. Not facts. I keep reading and hearing about how he has already shown documents. Why is that not a charge?

31 Counts - Willfull retention of documents - 1 for each document.
1 Count - Conspiracy to retain documents and NOT hand them over to a Grand Jury. Hmmmm...I thought this was about not giving them back to NARA?
1 Count - Withholding a document
1 Count - Corruptly concealing a document
1 Count - Concealing a document in a Federal Investigation
1 count - Scheme to Conceal
1 Count - False Statement
1 count - False Statement

Where is his charges does it say anything about showing or sharing TS or Classified information?
Because if you take the above information, and you change it to Joe and Hunter Biden, they should be charged in the exact same way. THIS is why people are upset not because it happened to Trump. He will have his day in court...

a reply to: AndyFromMichigan

Read the filing. Trump's lawyers are opposed to the DOJ's proposed timeline because it sets too fast of a place.

a reply to: Xtrozero

What country did Kendra Kingsbury sell secrets to?

Former FBI analyst sentenced to nearly 4 years over classified docs

a reply to: Threadbare

Not true. The judge said August and not the DOJ is pressing for December.