The moment the trans agenda goes off the rails thread

originally posted by: stevieray

originally posted by: ABlackCat

originally posted by: stevieray

originally posted by: ABlackCat

originally posted by: stevieray

originally posted by: ABlackCat

originally posted by: matafuchs
a reply to: ABlackCat

What doesn't happen. Enough with the FoxNews BS that does not drive my opinion on anything. I do not listen to the talking box for my talking points.

I have been on the planet long enough to see it for what it is and it is a political move. How is not wanting men in womans bathrooms threatening to women?

Your hypothetical scenarios do not happen. What really happened is that they are always arrested.

Telling you that it is a propaganda from Fox News hits too close to home? Are you admitting you are spreading falsehoods and propaganda? One does not need to listen to Fox News to repeat their lies. they are spread in many ways.

Nobody wants men in women's bathrooms. See you just repeated Fox News talking point.

This is where you said that men in women’s bathrooms isn’t happening, and nobody wants it.
The least you can do is not flat out lie, and say things, then say you never said them. Sort of one of the basics of adult discussion.

The scenarios do not happen without consequences.

What does this even mean ?
I know what it doesn’t mean ….. your claim that you didn’t say it.
And if I can even guess a meaning, no, the guys sneaking into the lady’s rooms don’t always get consequences. There are many news stories where the guys get full support and complaining women get screwed over by the Y or the gym or whomever.
We know you’ve seen these stories just like everyone else here. Poor form.

Plenty of news stories where those perverts get their comeuppances.

Doesn’t support your claim that it doesn’t happen, they always get arrested.
Telling additional random stories doesn’t fix a lie.

Are you talking about those who got away? That's pretty rare.

originally posted by: ABlackCat

originally posted by: stevieray

originally posted by: ABlackCat

originally posted by: stevieray

originally posted by: ABlackCat

originally posted by: stevieray

originally posted by: ABlackCat

originally posted by: matafuchs
a reply to: ABlackCat

What doesn't happen. Enough with the FoxNews BS that does not drive my opinion on anything. I do not listen to the talking box for my talking points.

I have been on the planet long enough to see it for what it is and it is a political move. How is not wanting men in womans bathrooms threatening to women?

Your hypothetical scenarios do not happen. What really happened is that they are always arrested.

Telling you that it is a propaganda from Fox News hits too close to home? Are you admitting you are spreading falsehoods and propaganda? One does not need to listen to Fox News to repeat their lies. they are spread in many ways.

Nobody wants men in women's bathrooms. See you just repeated Fox News talking point.

This is where you said that men in women’s bathrooms isn’t happening, and nobody wants it.
The least you can do is not flat out lie, and say things, then say you never said them. Sort of one of the basics of adult discussion.

The scenarios do not happen without consequences.

What does this even mean ?
I know what it doesn’t mean ….. your claim that you didn’t say it.
And if I can even guess a meaning, no, the guys sneaking into the lady’s rooms don’t always get consequences. There are many news stories where the guys get full support and complaining women get screwed over by the Y or the gym or whomever.
We know you’ve seen these stories just like everyone else here. Poor form.

Plenty of news stories where those perverts get their comeuppances.

Doesn’t support your claim that it doesn’t happen, they always get arrested.
Telling additional random stories doesn’t fix a lie.

Are you talking about those who got away? That's pretty rare.

Nobody believes that you haven’t seen the stories about businesses that coddle the guys in the women’s rooms, and punish the women who say anything bad about it. It’s just one misdirection and falsehood after another in this thread.

originally posted by: stevieray

originally posted by: ABlackCat

originally posted by: stevieray

originally posted by: ABlackCat

originally posted by: stevieray

originally posted by: ABlackCat

originally posted by: stevieray

originally posted by: ABlackCat

originally posted by: matafuchs
a reply to: ABlackCat

What doesn't happen. Enough with the FoxNews BS that does not drive my opinion on anything. I do not listen to the talking box for my talking points.

I have been on the planet long enough to see it for what it is and it is a political move. How is not wanting men in womans bathrooms threatening to women?

Your hypothetical scenarios do not happen. What really happened is that they are always arrested.

Telling you that it is a propaganda from Fox News hits too close to home? Are you admitting you are spreading falsehoods and propaganda? One does not need to listen to Fox News to repeat their lies. they are spread in many ways.

Nobody wants men in women's bathrooms. See you just repeated Fox News talking point.

This is where you said that men in women’s bathrooms isn’t happening, and nobody wants it.
The least you can do is not flat out lie, and say things, then say you never said them. Sort of one of the basics of adult discussion.

The scenarios do not happen without consequences.

What does this even mean ?
I know what it doesn’t mean ….. your claim that you didn’t say it.
And if I can even guess a meaning, no, the guys sneaking into the lady’s rooms don’t always get consequences. There are many news stories where the guys get full support and complaining women get screwed over by the Y or the gym or whomever.
We know you’ve seen these stories just like everyone else here. Poor form.

Plenty of news stories where those perverts get their comeuppances.

Doesn’t support your claim that it doesn’t happen, they always get arrested.
Telling additional random stories doesn’t fix a lie.

Are you talking about those who got away? That's pretty rare.

Nobody believes that you haven’t seen the stories about businesses that coddle the guys in the women’s rooms, and punish the women who say anything bad about it. It’s just one misdirection and falsehood after another in this thread.

So link me to those stories.

originally posted by: ABlackCat

originally posted by: AlienBorg

originally posted by: ABlackCat

originally posted by: AlienBorg

originally posted by: ABlackCat

originally posted by: AlienBorg

The people who decide to 'transition' don't have these generic conditions.

I know that. My point is that there are variants. People are just born differently.

A transgender person is born with a brain/mind of the opposite gender (which can be verified scientifically).

Do you know what an intersex person is?

You seem to be confusing genetic and chromosomal disorders with transgenderism when in fact they have nothing to do with each other.

You seem to miss the part where I said it can be verified scientifically.

Are you trying to avoid my question about intersex people? If so, why?

I am not quite sure why you brought XXY into this conversation.

The point is the variance of sexes and genders that are inborn. The transgender children do not get the ideas out of random.

Intersex is another DSD and again has nothing to do with transgenderism. I am not quite what did you bring this up.

Humor me and answer my question as it seems that you are missing my point.

However the trans movement somehow tries desperately to include these conditions and make links to transgenderism. It isn't going to happen.

I am not trying to make any "link". It's a simple question.

If a child is born intersex, which sex/gender is it? Who gets to decide?

Intersex is another DSD (already mentioned it in my last reply) and the sex of an intersex baby is determined (as always) by its chromosomes.

An example is Caster Semenya who is a genetically a male although taking part in women's competitions and that's why he is winning so many medals. Again, intersex has nothing to do with transgenderism.

Nobody decides, sec is predetermined long before you were born. Sex is not 'assigned' at birth is observed and it's a biological reality not an opinion by someone.

There are no variance of sexes. Sex is binary.

Everything you have said is wrong.

The trans movent is trying hard to include intersex conditions but they can't. They always fail.

I am not sure if you understand what intersex is.

Again, gender identities can be verified scientifically.

If you have seen from my posts it's very clear who understands what intersex is and who doesn't.

Gender identity isn't a scientific term but a made up expression which is meaningless. Gender isn't an identify you can choose.

Only the fact you brought up XXY and intersex conditions into the conversation proves the trans movement has nothing to hold on to and tries to integrate to the movement disorders of sex development, although they have nothing to do with transgenderism or the identities you have discussed.

My example of Caster Semenya it's a really good one if you want to understand intersex conditions. These are not sex variants btw. Sex is either male or female.

originally posted by: AlienBorg

originally posted by: ABlackCat

originally posted by: AlienBorg

originally posted by: ABlackCat

originally posted by: AlienBorg

originally posted by: ABlackCat

originally posted by: AlienBorg

The people who decide to 'transition' don't have these generic conditions.

I know that. My point is that there are variants. People are just born differently.

A transgender person is born with a brain/mind of the opposite gender (which can be verified scientifically).

Do you know what an intersex person is?

You seem to be confusing genetic and chromosomal disorders with transgenderism when in fact they have nothing to do with each other.

You seem to miss the part where I said it can be verified scientifically.

Are you trying to avoid my question about intersex people? If so, why?

I am not quite sure why you brought XXY into this conversation.

The point is the variance of sexes and genders that are inborn. The transgender children do not get the ideas out of random.

Intersex is another DSD and again has nothing to do with transgenderism. I am not quite what did you bring this up.

Humor me and answer my question as it seems that you are missing my point.

However the trans movement somehow tries desperately to include these conditions and make links to transgenderism. It isn't going to happen.

I am not trying to make any "link". It's a simple question.

If a child is born intersex, which sex/gender is it? Who gets to decide?

Intersex is another DSD (already mentioned it in my last reply) and the sex of an intersex baby is determined (as always) by its chromosomes.

An example is Caster Semenya who is a genetically a male although taking part in women's competitions and that's why he is winning so many medals. Again, intersex has nothing to do with transgenderism.

Nobody decides, sec is predetermined long before you were born. Sex is not 'assigned' at birth is observed and it's a biological reality not an opinion by someone.

There are no variance of sexes. Sex is binary.

Everything you have said is wrong.

The trans movent is trying hard to include intersex conditions but they can't. They always fail.

I am not sure if you understand what intersex is.

Again, gender identities can be verified scientifically.

If you have seen from my posts it's very clear who understands what intersex is and who doesn't.

Gender identity isn't a scientific term but a made up expression which is meaningless. Gender isn't an identify you can choose.

Only the fact you brought up XXY and intersex conditions into the conversation proves the trans movement has nothing to hold on to and tries to integrate to the movement disorders of sex development, although they have nothing to do with transgenderism or the identities you have discussed.

My example of Caster Semenya it's a really good one if you want to understand intersex conditions. These are not sex variants btw. Sex is either male or female.

Again, who gets to decide the gender of an intersex child?

originally posted by: ABlackCat

originally posted by: stevieray

originally posted by: ABlackCat

originally posted by: stevieray

originally posted by: ABlackCat

originally posted by: stevieray

originally posted by: ABlackCat

originally posted by: stevieray

originally posted by: ABlackCat

originally posted by: matafuchs
a reply to: ABlackCat

What doesn't happen. Enough with the FoxNews BS that does not drive my opinion on anything. I do not listen to the talking box for my talking points.

I have been on the planet long enough to see it for what it is and it is a political move. How is not wanting men in womans bathrooms threatening to women?

Your hypothetical scenarios do not happen. What really happened is that they are always arrested.

Telling you that it is a propaganda from Fox News hits too close to home? Are you admitting you are spreading falsehoods and propaganda? One does not need to listen to Fox News to repeat their lies. they are spread in many ways.

Nobody wants men in women's bathrooms. See you just repeated Fox News talking point.

This is where you said that men in women’s bathrooms isn’t happening, and nobody wants it.
The least you can do is not flat out lie, and say things, then say you never said them. Sort of one of the basics of adult discussion.

The scenarios do not happen without consequences.

What does this even mean ?
I know what it doesn’t mean ….. your claim that you didn’t say it.
And if I can even guess a meaning, no, the guys sneaking into the lady’s rooms don’t always get consequences. There are many news stories where the guys get full support and complaining women get screwed over by the Y or the gym or whomever.
We know you’ve seen these stories just like everyone else here. Poor form.

Plenty of news stories where those perverts get their comeuppances.

Doesn’t support your claim that it doesn’t happen, they always get arrested.
Telling additional random stories doesn’t fix a lie.

Are you talking about those who got away? That's pretty rare.

Nobody believes that you haven’t seen the stories about businesses that coddle the guys in the women’s rooms, and punish the women who say anything bad about it. It’s just one misdirection and falsehood after another in this thread.

So link me to those stories.

Straight up deliberate aggravation and annoyance. No, I won’t do this when I know you’ve seen these like everybody else has.
The mods really shouldn’t let people do this silly stuff. It makes ATS look bad.

originally posted by: ABlackCat

originally posted by: AlienBorg

originally posted by: ABlackCat

originally posted by: AlienBorg

originally posted by: ABlackCat

originally posted by: AlienBorg

originally posted by: ABlackCat

originally posted by: AlienBorg

The people who decide to 'transition' don't have these generic conditions.

I know that. My point is that there are variants. People are just born differently.

A transgender person is born with a brain/mind of the opposite gender (which can be verified scientifically).

Do you know what an intersex person is?

You seem to be confusing genetic and chromosomal disorders with transgenderism when in fact they have nothing to do with each other.

You seem to miss the part where I said it can be verified scientifically.

Are you trying to avoid my question about intersex people? If so, why?

I am not quite sure why you brought XXY into this conversation.

The point is the variance of sexes and genders that are inborn. The transgender children do not get the ideas out of random.

Intersex is another DSD and again has nothing to do with transgenderism. I am not quite what did you bring this up.

Humor me and answer my question as it seems that you are missing my point.

However the trans movement somehow tries desperately to include these conditions and make links to transgenderism. It isn't going to happen.

I am not trying to make any "link". It's a simple question.

If a child is born intersex, which sex/gender is it? Who gets to decide?

Intersex is another DSD (already mentioned it in my last reply) and the sex of an intersex baby is determined (as always) by its chromosomes.

An example is Caster Semenya who is a genetically a male although taking part in women's competitions and that's why he is winning so many medals. Again, intersex has nothing to do with transgenderism.

Nobody decides, sec is predetermined long before you were born. Sex is not 'assigned' at birth is observed and it's a biological reality not an opinion by someone.

There are no variance of sexes. Sex is binary.

Everything you have said is wrong.

The trans movent is trying hard to include intersex conditions but they can't. They always fail.

I am not sure if you understand what intersex is.

Again, gender identities can be verified scientifically.

If you have seen from my posts it's very clear who understands what intersex is and who doesn't.

Gender identity isn't a scientific term but a made up expression which is meaningless. Gender isn't an identify you can choose.

Only the fact you brought up XXY and intersex conditions into the conversation proves the trans movement has nothing to hold on to and tries to integrate to the movement disorders of sex development, although they have nothing to do with transgenderism or the identities you have discussed.

My example of Caster Semenya it's a really good one if you want to understand intersex conditions. These are not sex variants btw. Sex is either male or female.

Again, who gets to decide the gender of an intersex child?

The child when they’re 18. Like 100 other things we do this with.

originally posted by: ABlackCat
a reply to: tanstaafl
Look, if you can prove to me that those types of therapies are damaging and irreversible, then I'll be with you.

You have it backwards...

The burden of proof is on you to prove they are safe and effective.

I won't be holding my breath, because even if you could get such studies past the ethical problems presented, I guarantee you they would not only not show such procedures are safe, they would show them to be at minimum extremely risky and unsafe, and at worst, cause sterility, emotional distress, depression, and potentially suicide.

originally posted by: tanstaafl

originally posted by: ABlackCat
a reply to: tanstaafl
Look, if you can prove to me that those types of therapies are damaging and irreversible, then I'll be with you.

You have it backwards...

The burden of proof is on you to prove they are safe and effective.

You are the one who said it is very damaging.

I won't be holding my breath, because even if you could get such studies past the ethical problems presented, I guarantee you they would not only not show such procedures are safe, they would show them to be at minimum extremely risky and unsafe, and at worst, cause sterility, emotional distress, depression, and potentially suicide.

So show it. Like I said, I'll be with you.

originally posted by: ABlackCat

originally posted by: AlienBorg

originally posted by: ABlackCat

originally posted by: AlienBorg

originally posted by: ABlackCat

originally posted by: AlienBorg

originally posted by: ABlackCat

originally posted by: AlienBorg

The people who decide to 'transition' don't have these generic conditions.

I know that. My point is that there are variants. People are just born differently.

A transgender person is born with a brain/mind of the opposite gender (which can be verified scientifically).

Do you know what an intersex person is?

You seem to be confusing genetic and chromosomal disorders with transgenderism when in fact they have nothing to do with each other.

You seem to miss the part where I said it can be verified scientifically.

Are you trying to avoid my question about intersex people? If so, why?

I am not quite sure why you brought XXY into this conversation.

The point is the variance of sexes and genders that are inborn. The transgender children do not get the ideas out of random.

Intersex is another DSD and again has nothing to do with transgenderism. I am not quite what did you bring this up.

Humor me and answer my question as it seems that you are missing my point.

However the trans movement somehow tries desperately to include these conditions and make links to transgenderism. It isn't going to happen.

I am not trying to make any "link". It's a simple question.

If a child is born intersex, which sex/gender is it? Who gets to decide?

Intersex is another DSD (already mentioned it in my last reply) and the sex of an intersex baby is determined (as always) by its chromosomes.

An example is Caster Semenya who is a genetically a male although taking part in women's competitions and that's why he is winning so many medals. Again, intersex has nothing to do with transgenderism.

Nobody decides, sec is predetermined long before you were born. Sex is not 'assigned' at birth is observed and it's a biological reality not an opinion by someone.

There are no variance of sexes. Sex is binary.

Everything you have said is wrong.

The trans movent is trying hard to include intersex conditions but they can't. They always fail.

I am not sure if you understand what intersex is.

Again, gender identities can be verified scientifically.

If you have seen from my posts it's very clear who understands what intersex is and who doesn't.

Gender identity isn't a scientific term but a made up expression which is meaningless. Gender isn't an identify you can choose.

Only the fact you brought up XXY and intersex conditions into the conversation proves the trans movement has nothing to hold on to and tries to integrate to the movement disorders of sex development, although they have nothing to do with transgenderism or the identities you have discussed.

My example of Caster Semenya it's a really good one if you want to understand intersex conditions. These are not sex variants btw. Sex is either male or female.

Again, who gets to decide the gender of an intersex child?

The sex of an intersex baby is already predetermined by before it was born. Humans don't get to decide sex/gender. Nature does.

originally posted by: ABlackCat

originally posted by: tanstaafl

originally posted by: ABlackCat
a reply to: tanstaafl
Look, if you can prove to me that those types of therapies are damaging and irreversible, then I'll be with you.

You have it backwards...

The burden of proof is on you to prove they are safe and effective.

You are the one who said it is very damaging.

I won't be holding my breath, because even if you could get such studies past the ethical problems presented, I guarantee you they would not only not show such procedures are safe, they would show them to be at minimum extremely risky and unsafe, and at worst, cause sterility, emotional distress, depression, and potentially suicide.

So show it. Like I said, I'll be with you.

Not really. Throughout the thread you have made a number of claims without any evidence. The burden of proof is on you I am afraid.

But can you really block puberty?
You have even called some of teenagers as transgender teenagers. I pointed out to you that the word transgender didn't exist a few years ago. It's made up.

First you need to prove people can transition between sexes. Is there any proof for this? Can it physically happen??

Then you started including disorders of sex development in the conversations, proving the trans movement has nothing to hold on to as these conditions have nothing to do with transgenderism.

You said about sex variants. But there are no sex variants in biology and genetics.

Everything you mentioned and said is wrong.

Precisely how the trans movement goes about matters. They make a range of claims and then try to shift the burden of proof.

a reply to: ABlackCat

You said

A transgender person is born with a brain/mind of the opposite gender (which can be verified scientifically).

You need plenty of evidence and proof for what you said.

I wasn't to see the scientific proof for brain/mind of
the opposite gender. Where is it? Who discovered it? Did they get the Nobel Prize? Surely this a great discovery and if it happened we would have heard about it.

Again, the burden of proof is on you.

Don't forget to prove there are sex variants too, as you claimed.

a reply to: ABlackCat

Nobody claimed that you can change your biological sexes. It's beyond the medical technology we have today. Eventually (soon probably), we can change DNAs/sexes.

How? Can you point to the research made where one person could change his/her biological sex after let's say having been into this planet for 20-30 years.

In grad school, I taught a class on endocrinology. One experiment we did was to show the delicate balance and timing of hormone expression.
Using Rana catesbiana the African claw-toed frogs, we introduced levels of T3 or T4 at specific developmental stages.

In one experiment, when those hormone levels were disrupted or altered at a certain developmental stage, we'd get tadpoles with developed lungs, and they'd drown.

In another experiment we'd get developed frogs who still had gills, and it would suffocate.

It was an experiment to illustrate the timing and balance that was required for certain hormone expression at specific stages of development.

You can't unring a bell, as you cannot change a developmental stage once that stage has passed.

Doing hormone therapy to children, hell, any drug that interrupts or alters the development of a biological organism, will forever change that organism.

originally posted by: ABlackCat
a reply to: tanstaafl
You are the one who said it is very damaging.

You're still confused.

The onus is on the one making the claim. You are the one claiming these treatments are safe and effective.

In addition, where drugs/medications/medical procedures are concerned, the legal onus is always - always - on the one wanting to use it to prove - before it can be used - that it is both safe and effective.

Now, for the last time, either point me to even one such study - a real actual study, not some radical leftist opinion piece - change your stance, or just admit that you don't care, and simply want to push their radical agenda regardless of any harm it may cause to children.

originally posted by: tanstaafl

originally posted by: ABlackCat
a reply to: tanstaafl
Look, if you can prove to me that those types of therapies are damaging and irreversible, then I'll be with you.

You have it backwards...

The burden of proof is on you to prove they are safe and effective.

I won't be holding my breath, because even if you could get such studies past the ethical problems presented, I guarantee you they would not only not show such procedures are safe, they would show them to be at minimum extremely risky and unsafe, and at worst, cause sterility, emotional distress, depression, and potentially suicide.

Still no evidence.

originally posted by: tanstaafl

originally posted by: ABlackCat
a reply to: tanstaafl
You are the one who said it is very damaging.

You're still confused.

The onus is on the one making the claim. You are the one claiming these treatments are safe and effective.

In addition, where drugs/medications/medical procedures are concerned, the legal onus is always - always - on the one wanting to use it to prove - before it can be used - that it is both safe and effective.

Now, for the last time, either point me to even one such study - a real actual study, not some radical leftist opinion piece - change your stance, or just admit that you don't care, and simply want to push their radical agenda regardless of any harm it may cause to children.

Ah hominem fallacy.

originally posted by: AlienBorg
a reply to: ABlackCat

Nobody claimed that you can change your biological sexes. It's beyond the medical technology we have today. Eventually (soon probably), we can change DNAs/sexes.

How? Can you point to the research made where one person could change his/her biological sex after let's say having been into this planet for 20-30 years.

I think you misread my post.

originally posted by: DBCowboy
In grad school, I taught a class on endocrinology. One experiment we did was to show the delicate balance and timing of hormone expression.
Using Rana catesbiana the African claw-toed frogs, we introduced levels of T3 or T4 at specific developmental stages.

In one experiment, when those hormone levels were disrupted or altered at a certain developmental stage, we'd get tadpoles with developed lungs, and they'd drown.

In another experiment we'd get developed frogs who still had gills, and it would suffocate.

It was an experiment to illustrate the timing and balance that was required for certain hormone expression at specific stages of development.

You can't unring a bell, as you cannot change a developmental stage once that stage has passed.

Doing hormone therapy to children, hell, any drug that interrupts or alters the development of a biological organism, will forever change that organism.

Still no evidence.

a reply to: ABlackCat

Yeah, 'cause science is like, um, no evidence dood.

Fail.

You're either a troll or a bot.

Refute what I said with science or admit that you don't have a clue.