Are extraterrestrials real? As real as the nose on your face.

Originally posted by lost_shaman
I basically avoided this thread for obvious reasons.

But sleeper when you said this ...

The NT was created after the Romans destroyed Jerusalem and a faction of the few remaining Jews known as the Essenes who escaped banded together and were give a new mandate and a new religion----one that would encompass non-Jews---because there were few Jews left----the new religion was called Christianity for a man that was named Jesus
However Jesus was not an ET nor was he the Jesus in the scripture----the scripture is 100% allegory

You are just making this stuff up. Tons of research was done on another thread that I was involved in and there is good evidence that Christianity was rooted in Jerusalem before the Fall of Jerusalem in 70 ad. In fact some Christians were being persecuted and killed several years before 70 ad.

Flavius Josephus even mentions Jesus in his work The Jewish War.

[edit on 13-2-2006 by lost_shaman]

I have been accused of making everything I post up-----most of those who attack me are those who don’t agree with my religion concepts or my political slant-----therefore everything I say is gibberish, or hateful, or blasphemous, or just plain crazy----my ET stuff

Actually much of what is called Christianity started one hundred and fifty years before the time allotted to Christ which is about 30AD when he allegedly began his ministry

There was a Jew named Jesus/Judah and he was part of the Maccabees clan

But this argument can go on forever and this is not the religion forum----and most people know what my beliefs are about that subject----that’s why I’m on many people’s hit list

I don’t make things up-----I only tell things that most people don’t want to hear----I would make a bad politician

Sleeper,
Don't you think your becoming more and more condescinding? The more people argue your points you become more hostile with each post, you keep urging the MODS to remove or block your thread, why??. Many posts ago you said that if you could pay to have your remarks took back you would, than why are you continuing on posting? If people criticize you, why be hostile to them? They are merely posting there opinions about your claims, why be hostile and not very cordial? When people were intrested in hearing what you had to say you were happy and content and now that there are a few people questioning your claims you attack peoples characters and discredit everything everyone says, only you the holy messenger of the Et is correct. Leave your self rightious ass at home and don't post, or post with respect to others and there opinions, as we resepect you and yours.!!!

Originally posted by Briggs

But then you say if anyone offers a different opion , then its an attack ?.

as I have said, If you offer a different opinion then fine. I have not said that having a differing opinion means that you are attacking.

**** what ?. what in hell is this nonsense ?.

Went to the Moon - can be proven .

not nonsense at all. If you have never been to the moon yourself then you are relying on the source of those who have claimed to experience such activities. The credibility of the source is the only proof you have to go by.

9 planets --- Uh yeah , and then we discovered another one -- so whats the point ?.

The fact that what is learned in a general institution is not necessarily true fact. Scientists were only able to make comment on what they were able to view hense 9 planets. Technology advanced and further discovery was made rendering the previous void of fact and new information in place. This shows that although you as many others have been informed in the past that there are limitations (number of planets) and these limitations are beleived upon the credibility of the source does not mean that the source of information was incorrect. It does however bring to question that all that has been informed to you throughout you education in life that has not been personally experienced is second hand information and as such would carry about as much credibility as any other story unless you yourself were either able to trust the source implicity or having had experienced the event or source of question individually.

*** Witchhunt ? . i alrdy gave my views on that topic .

But also Sleeper posting in a public forum , should be rdy for some ridicul and tough questions .

questions then yes, he has attempted to oblige. ridicule no, there is not need.

** now your playing word games yourself .
First of all his claims have no integrity , because he has no proof and no way of backing them up . and as for gibberish ,, exactly -- Duh - he can spout off statements all day that mean absoloutly nothing at all and yes most people would consider that gibberish .. there is no integrity in saying something to complete strangers that cant be proven .Hence his strory lacks integrity and meaning besides the fact he is looking for attention.

the idea was to inform you that unless you experience anything in life for yourself, anything that you learn is second hand information and as such is only credible as the source. What sleep is stating is a source of information and as I have said numerous times, it is up to you to decide his cedibility. agree or disagree is fine by him or anyone else who wishes to provide debate. However to state that because this individual claims to have had an experience regardless of how difficult you find to comprehend the credibility of it, does not make it untrue. It just means that you do not beleive it as many others do not. However the information provided is based on about as much evidence of information you currently hold within your own mind without experiencing all knowledge you hold.

As I have stated in previous examples, You may be aware that there is aircraft that can fly Mach2 or above but can you be sure of this unless you experience this for yourself? You maybe aware of many other things you consider to be fact without experiencing them and only basis this in information forwarded to you which carries no more credibility than that given to you via Sleeper.

Just because it cannot be immediately proven does not make it unfactual. Just unprovable. That is why credibility is the key reason behind belief. If you were to believe anything that you had not had proven beyond all doubt was true then I am sure a ot of what you have learned in your life time would have to be considered false.

thanks for answering my questions. Your story is very interesting to read and think about.

I'm not going to lie and say I believe in what your story. I'm not sure what is real and what is not, but I'll take it into account and postulate my own theory.

Thanks again sleeper

Originally posted by Briggs

** now your playing word games yourself .
First of all his claims have no integrity , because he has no proof and no way of backing them up . and as for gibberish ,, exactly -- Duh - he can spout off statements all day that mean absoloutly nothing at all and yes most people would consider that gibberish .. there is no integrity in saying something to complete strangers that cant be proven .Hence his strory lacks integrity and meaning besides the fact he is looking for attention.

Accusing me of being an attention seeker----can you be a little more original? Or is that beyond your capacity?

Okay everyone:

CHILL!!

Food for thought:

If you feel the need to scoff at, make fun of, or ridicule a member because he made a post or started a thread that you don't agree with, or that you think is stupid, crazy, too out there or ridiculous. Do not post anything. Ufology and paranormal studies have suffered for decades because anything in that area is constantly ridiculed and made fun of by the media and by the average joe, because of it conflicting with their beliefs of what reality is. Not one belief on reality is true, and no one has the "copyright" on what's 100%, no 101% true or not. Not me, not you, not society, not science... NO ONE. Thinking it's otherwise is just being ignorant

www.abovetopsecret.com...

I think it's fair to expect us to respect each other here.
So, please, let's start
This is not directed at any one person, btw. There's plenty in this thread that could have been left unsaid.

[edit on 13-2-2006 by DontTreadOnMe]

Dear mod

Don't hesitate to lock or remove my offensive thread

BTW thanks for the warning

I know what forum this is. You brought this up and I challenged you on facts. Sometimes religion and history and facts intertwine.

This is why I think you are making things up.

First you say.

Originally posted by sleeper


The NT was created after the Romans destroyed Jerusalem and a faction of the few remaining Jews known as the Essenes who escaped banded together and were give a new mandate and a new religion----one that would encompass non-Jews---because there were few Jews left----the new religion was called Christianity for a man that was named Jesus
However Jesus was not an ET nor was he the Jesus in the scripture----the scripture is 100% allegory

So I challenged you on the facts here, because what you just said does not match up with facts.

Then you say this.

Originally posted by sleeper
Actually much of what is called Christianity started one hundred and fifty years before the time allotted to Christ which is about 30AD when he allegedly began his ministry

There was a Jew named Jesus/Judah and he was part of the Maccabees clan

Which is totally different than what you just said and again the Facts have not changed. The apostle Paul was in Rome before and after the Fall of Jerusalem preaching in backrooms about Jesus. Regardless of anyone's faith that is how the Christian religion began.

And much of the Christian religion has its basis in Paganism as Christianity replaced Paganism in Rome.

So what was the guy's name ? Jesus or Judah?

You do realize that these were common names so no doubt there were people named Jesus and or Judah in most clans. That proves nothing.

Maybe you do just have weird religious beliefs , but acting like E.T.s told you all this stuff is a load. You were asked a question and you answered it under the pretense that you've learned these things from E.T.s , which is obviously false.

Did E.T.s give the Essenes a new religion after the Fall of Jerusalem, or was it a religion based on a guy named Jesus 120 B.c. ?

Let me guess , there is no evidence for either of those opposing claims. E.T.s told you.

But of course you wouldn't make things up, this coming from a guy claiming E.T.s picked him up on Military bases in front of onlooking jaw dropped Generals.

It's good to see this thread is back in order, somewhat since I left.

Sleeper, did ET's help us with EVERY advancement. Even the things we use that have no purpose of moving us forward?

And how did you get the username Sleeper, if you don't mind me asking?

Originally posted by lost_shaman

This is why I think you are making things up.

First you say.

Originally posted by sleeper


The NT was created after the Romans destroyed Jerusalem and a faction of the few remaining Jews known as the Essenes who escaped banded together and were give a new mandate and a new religion----one that would encompass non-Jews---because there were few Jews left----the new religion was called Christianity for a man that was named Jesus
However Jesus was not an ET nor was he the Jesus in the scripture----the scripture is 100% allegory

So I challenged you on the facts here, because what you just said does not match up with facts.

The only fact about Christianity is that it exists----like there is no movie without writing a screenplay first.

The major parts of the Christian screenplay was written after AD70

Then you say this.

Originally posted by sleeper
Actually much of what is called Christianity started one hundred and fifty years before the time allotted to Christ which is about 30AD when he allegedly began his ministry

There was a Jew named Jesus/Judah and he was part of the Maccabees clan

In some manuscripts he was know by both names----just like Saul and Paul are the same person

Which is totally different than what you just said and again the Facts have not changed. The apostle Paul was in Rome before and after the Fall of Jerusalem preaching in backrooms about Jesus. Regardless of anyone's faith that is how the Christian religion began.

All those facts come from the NT----not history books

Maybe you do just have weird religious beliefs , but acting like E.T.s told you all this stuff is a load. You were asked a question and you answered it under the pretense that you've learned these things from E.T.s , which is obviously false.

And you know that for a fact?

Did E.T.s give the Essenes a new religion after the Fall of Jerusalem, or was it a religion based on a guy named Jesus 120 B.c. ?

Both----they use old manuscripts to construct the NT-----the continuity thing----the NT is nothing but the rewrite of the OT

Let me guess , there is no evidence for either of those opposing claims. E.T.s told you.

But of course you wouldn't make things up, this coming from a guy claiming E.T.s picked him up on Military bases in front of onlooking jaw dropped Generals.

And your point is?-----let me guess---you don’t believe me

I really don't expect people to believe me

Originally posted by Briggs
Actually his Gibberish and crediabilty are the same . I fully understand the words he uses , and the way he is using them hurts his crediabilty.

Wow! Sleeper really gets under-your-skin doesn't he?

Shall we discuss your 'credibility', Briggs?

Or mine for that matter?

Instead of making this a personal crusade to vanquish the so called: 'Crazy-Cult-Mongering-Alien-Worshipper', perhaps just a little patience may be required to take in something that can't be so easily examined by Human Scientific Enquiry...

If it can at all!

I am of the belief that a new way of understanding the Alien/UFO phenomena is needed. Perhaps a blending of Science and Spiritualism is a start.

Any takers?

All those facts come from the NT----not history books

Josephus mentions the Christians in the Jewish Wars.

I'm surprised he didn't know that.

Originally posted by sleeperI read the New Testament inside and out, and all most became a preacher---my problem I didn't know when to stop researching. Not only the whole bible but anything I could get my hands on about Christianity, Judaism and the Roman Empire. I even wrote two books about Christianity and the history of the Jews after the Romans. I will not post or give out the names of those books for obvious reasons.

I have all Josephus' books.

Of course he also said on this thread that Jesus didn't exist

The Jesus Josephus speaks of was a zealot who murdered and killed Jews and Romans,

yet somehow committed murder.

But he has also said

I’m not a religious person

and

I don't believe in aliens

The title of this thread is Are extraterrestrials real? As real as the nose on your face.
It's not I think or I believe they're real. It's a clear and bold statement. If you go back through the thread you'll even find an apprehension on sleepers part to continue. The thread really should have been titled more ambiguously.
And Klepto stop trying to connect credibilty and belief. Thats an oxymoron waiting to happen.


[edit on 2/14/06 by longhaircowboy]

[edit on 2/14/06 by longhaircowboy]

Sleeper i Have watch your treath long time now and you have great information, yes everything you have said at least it's 70% actual true. I too have seen this, I am from mexico and yes have seen UFO's and ET's up close. The greuys has motly knows them and like sleeper says are mostly robots, autmated, they dont have any soul at all, that's why every one who encounters them feels like they are not alive (myself too i have seem them and felt the same), the only thing you have not address sleeper is about this robots, they dont have a soul and they want to have soul...you know this and i know it, that's why the experiments because if they can have soul they can live forever, the greys doesnt have one and if they die, they die period, no eternal life for them, that's why some of them are seeking to have a soul and they are doing the bizarre abduction types.

Sleeper yes Corso told the truth, the truth he knew... Yes there are many other alien species that comes to earth. many come to here just for research and fr experemintation, learning, but of course there are too some renegades out there who want stuff from us (some greys want ot have soul, other look for better stuff on earth)

You have to addres this themes, even if are the ones you dont like to talk about (me neither)...

Hope we can talk lot's of time in this treath sleeper and good job

Originally posted by SentientHunter
thanks for answering my questions. Your story is very interesting to read and think about.

I'm not going to lie and say I believe in what your story. I'm not sure what is real and what is not, but I'll take it into account and postulate my own theory.

Thanks again sleeper

Here is the perfect example of how to behave if you do not believe in what sleeper has said. I congratulate SentientHunter for respecting sleeper for the time he has taken to answer his/her questions.

May this serve as a reminder to those that continue to berate sleeper into submission, that your conduct is not welcome in this thread. This is the last time I am going to say this to you people.... respect sleeper and the fact that his veiws are different to yours. if you feel that you want to challenge him, do so in a way that is not insulting on a personal or an intellectual level.

In future I will ignore all posts that do not directly contribute to this thread. Yes folks I'm putting on my rose-tinted spectacles!

Hmmm... More alien stuff. Sounds like fun.

Do the Grays realize humans can help them collect soul matter much better than their "creators"?

Do you realize that the aliens interfering with humanity do NOT have our best interests in mind?

Do you know that the soul is far more powerful than the 4th dimension entities?

Do you know that humans are equal in power and knowledge as the "gatekeepers" but that humans have just been convinced otherwise?

Do you know you don't need technology to phase between the 3rd and 4th dimension?

Sorry. Off my meds. Show me proof that my nose is real and I might believe your story.

Originally posted by lost_shaman

All those facts come from the NT----not history books

Josephus mentions the Christians in the Jewish Wars.

More than half of religious scholars believe that the Jesus of Christianity was inserted after Josephus died----and not by Josephus


Josephus was a Jewish general and one of the major fighters against the Romans----but as the Jewish Zealots got out of control and became the biggest threat to Judaism his loyalties changed and he became a Roman-----and a Roman historian-----most Jews believed him a traitor----and he did write favorably about the Romans----otherwise he wouldn’t have survived for long-----had he wrote about Christianity that too would have offended the Romans-----if he believed in the Jesus story-----that Jesus was god----he wouldn’t have been so loyal to the Romans


Unlike many deities of that time and to the present Jesus represents all that is good in mankind and beyond-----he also represents the fact that there is life after this one-----the resurrection-----he died and lived again-----went to heaven

The story of Jesus was designed to give hope to a desperate people during very desperate times-----and it still does today

But along side good always travels the bad-----the Crusades----deception, false beliefs and gods----the Holy Roman Empire-----replaced one tyranny with another----but that’s what life on this planet is all about

We are here to learn and to prove to ourselves what we are made of-----and you can’t do that in a perfect utopian world.

Originally posted by TheObserver

Originally posted by SentientHunter
thanks for answering my questions. Your story is very interesting to read and think about.

I'm not going to lie and say I believe in what your story. I'm not sure what is real and what is not, but I'll take it into account and postulate my own theory.

Thanks again sleeper

Here is the perfect example of how to behave if you do not believe in what sleeper has said. I congratulate SentientHunter for respecting sleeper for the time he has taken to answer his/her questions.

May this serve as a reminder to those that continue to berate sleeper into submission, that your conduct is not welcome in this thread. This is the last time I am going to say this to you people.... respect sleeper and the fact that his veiws are different to yours. if you feel that you want to challenge him, do so in a way that is not insulting on a personal or an intellectual level.

In future I will ignore all posts that do not directly contribute to this thread. Yes folks I'm putting on my rose-tinted spectacles!

Don't care if you egnore this or not. Perhaps one day when I blindly follow others in how they wish to have things presented and also one day when I learn to create and punctuate properly, I might be accepted amongst those grammer enlist people who do not understand that not all who post are educated at the same degree.

Respect is earned.. not given. You have not earned my respect becuase you failed to educate me in how any of your posts have anything to do with the title of the this thread or the garbage Sleeper is allowed to spew to the public on ATS.

8) Right of Community Management This is a privately owned discussion board community. The Owners and senior moderator staff reserve the right to take action against any member who is deemed to be devoted purely to disruption, whose actions represent behavior contrary to community building, or whose content is contrary to the core ideals of AboveTopSecret.com. This action may include complete banning of your username and IP address.

I find it ironic that Sleeper is allowed to deviate with BS that has nothing to do with his origianal posting. What got me on edge if you must know is the fact that someone as transperant, to me and a few others, as Sleeper is he did not in my view and his prof. create this threat to entice Alien investigators or those seeking answers about aliens to answer with SOLID prof., based on his title, but to preach or give others his BS views on how HE, not aliens, think about what is happening around him or OTHERS.

In short he is, as in yours and others, educating others on non factual events and happenings in space, time and the universe.

To the MODs.. If you think what I and others are doing is deterimantal to this thread then what the hell is Sleeper doing to those weak of mind who he gets to explain how life is lived or should be seen?

Is ATS now allowing people to educate and lecture others on how others should see things around them? I ask you to tell me how this has anything to do with aliens or how they are as plain as my nose?

I ask anyone other then Sleeper to explain it to me. I'm all for free speach and such. But I thought ATS was a place to present once ideals with prof and not a place for others to post fantasies and stories for the general public. Thats exacly what Sleeper is doing in this Thread. He gives no prof what so ever.

Dang if I saw the inside of a ship or outside i'd scetch it or have someone else draw it on paper that I know. I would not have to explain what they are drawing only how I describe it.

Sleeper states he SPEAKS on behalf of ALIENS, (ET) when he answers questions. I say by all the posts Sleeper's done he is full of himself and for the MOD's to allow this has seriously down graded my impression of what ATS means to the general public.

Next time I have a friend looking for insight on where to get ideals for a book or story, I'll direct them here and to ask one of the MOD's to point out the most recent BS ATS has to offer.

Originally posted by sleeper

More than half of religious scholars believe that the Jesus of Christianity was inserted after Josephus died----and not by Josephus


Josephus was a Jewish general and one of the major fighters against the Romans----but as the Jewish Zealots got out of control and became the biggest threat to Judaism his loyalties changed and he became a Roman-----and a Roman historian-----most Jews believed him a traitor----and he did write favorably about the Romans----otherwise he wouldn’t have survived for long-----had he wrote about Christianity that too would have offended the Romans-----if he believed in the Jesus story-----that Jesus was god----he wouldn’t have been so loyal to the Romans


Unlike many deities of that time and to the present Jesus represents all that is good in mankind and beyond-----he also represents the fact that there is life after this one-----the resurrection-----he died and lived again-----went to heaven

The story of Jesus was designed to give hope to a desperate people during very desperate times-----and it still does today

But along side good always travels the bad-----the Crusades----deception, false beliefs and gods----the Holy Roman Empire-----replaced one tyranny with another----but that’s what life on this planet is all about

We are here to learn and to prove to ourselves what we are made of-----and you can’t do that in a perfect utopian world.

So you think you know your religion or a religion.

What does that have to do with you relating to others here from ET's as you call them. What does that have to do with them being as plain as my nose. Where is your PROF. If they are so knowledgeable where are your predictions. Oh.. thats right.. I have to wait until I am dead to find out if wht you say about the universe is true..

Gee .. perhaps dying is'nt so bad.. maybe once someone commits suicide to go to a better place they will realize how right you are. Did you ever stop and think that not all are happy here.. did you think that maybe your are entising others to go for that extra step and find out how full of BS you really are. But then again we all have freedom to do and say what we want the the freedom to believe what we want.

But due to your farse in the way you post and what messages you relay you are entising others out there to trust you. You did not denounce that what you preach is false and ther may be true believers who will take you word for word.

If that is the case, because what you say is true, then you Sir have everyones actions regardless if they type or not on your shoulders. Becuase that is what you are looking for. Recongintion from others that you had something special done in your life. So what you say is gospil to those willing to listen. If that was not the case you would not have deviated from your original postings.

The only reason you want the MOD's to end this is so you would hold face to the public that what you started could not be disproven. Your a jerk who should not only have this thread removed but removed from ATS.

wilbert is Christian----and I respect Christians----my family are Christians---I raised two children in the Christian beliefs----they go to Church every Sunday

But wilbert like many fundamentalist believe there is a hell and they want to save people from hell----and apparently from me---because I know that hell is a story to frighten people----to control people

So what I wrote below which is the post that triggered wilbert’s wrath----is threatening to the hell myth

I have no problem with people believe in hell, or Jesus----I only tell what I believe


Josephus was a Jewish general and one of the major fighters against the Romans----but as the Jewish Zealots got out of control and became the biggest threat to Judaism his loyalties changed and he became a Roman-----and a Roman historian-----most Jews believed him a traitor----and he did write favorably about the Romans----otherwise he wouldn’t have survived for long-----had he wrote about Christianity that too would have offended the Romans-----if he believed in the Jesus story-----that Jesus was god----he wouldn’t have been so loyal to the Romans


Unlike many deities of that time and to the present Jesus represent all that is good in mankind and beyond-----he also represents the fact that there is life after this one-----the resurrection-----he died and lived again-----went to heaven

The story of Jesus was designed to give hope to a desperate people during very desperate times-----and it still does today

But along side good always travels the bad-----the Crusades----deception, false beliefs and gods----the Holy Roman Empire-----replaced one tyranny with another----but that’s what life on this planet is all about

We are here to learn and to prove to ourselves what we are made of-----and you can’t do that in a perfect utopian world.