Trump indicted in classified documents case in Florida

originally posted by: carewemust

originally posted by: IndieA
a reply to: olaru12

Jared and Ivanka were the MAGA moles in the WH; And are now working with the prosecution.

Just because someone speculates something, doesn't make it true.

Good Lord

What's up with all these LEAKS from the Special Counsel investigating Trump, while the Special Counsel investigating Biden's multi-year theft and retention of Top Secret documents is not leaking a bit?

Just what are all the leaks from the Trump investigation special counsel that you are talking about? Last time I checked, Trump was the one who announced that he received a target letter from the DOJ -- this was for both of these investigations. And then there were the indictments that were publicly released, but that is how things are normally done.

There was the story about the audiotape evidence and witnesses at Bedminster, which came out before the indictment, but it is not obvious that it was leaked by the special counsel's office. In fact, it came out of transcripts of a audiotaping with Trump's permission, which involved people working on Mark Meadow's memoir as WH CoS.

You have evidence of the special counsel leaking material? The provide it.

originally posted by: AngryCymraeg
a reply to: carewemust

Your adoration of your tiny-handed corrupt Orange god is getting dangerously silly. Trump is not Luke Skywalker. The concept just made me burst out laughing. No. In fact hell no. In fact, if you want to get pedantic about it, Trump would not understand the concept behind being a Jedi. He's more of a Sith, albeit a corrupt, lazy, incompetent sort of slob-Sith.
I like it, that's what I'll call him now. Thanks for the idea!
I hope that the Wagner Group is still paying you by the way.

Yeah, he's more like a Jaba the Hut Sith slug.

originally posted by: matafuchs
a reply to: MrInquisitive

So someone who is indicted is guilty? How very Soviet of you. I hope in your lifetime you are never accused of something you did not do. It is a horrible feeling knowing you could be in trouble for something you did not do but others say you did.

How very sophistic of you. The person wanted "demonstrable" evidence of Trump being a criminal, and that is exactly what I provided. Have you bothered to read through the indictment yet? If you did, you'd see that the feds have him dead to rights on many charges. The fact that this classified data was in his hands, and he moved stuff around and lied to federal agents is might damning stuff. Not to mention that he is on tape acknowledging that he has this stuff, and even showed it to multiple witnesses. He's also incriminated himself on cable tv. What more do you need? Is he convicted of it yet? Of course not, the trial has not taken place yet. Do you know what "demonstrable" means? "Clearly apparent or capable of being logically proved." In this case, the evidence in the indictment is quite demonstrable. So are you going to take back your slanderous accusation about me being Soviet-like?

You want proof positive that he is an f'n criminal, then look at the verdict of the E Gene Carroll case; the lawsuit against him and his Trump University, in which he had to pay $24 million to people he bilked; and the settlement in the case against his DJ Trump Foundation illegally using funds, for which he had to pay out $2 million and which caused his charity to be shut down. Sure, these were all civil cases, but that was the only way they got at OJ Simpson as well.

However, at this moment there are 71 felony indictments against Trump, with many more a'comin'. I think that is demonstrable evidence that the guy is a criminal. Oh yeah, and I saw him call a crowd to DC on Jan 6, and sent them to the Capitol to stop the certification of the election, which garnered him a second impeachment. Also heard him on tape ask the Georgia Sec. of State to find him 10,800 more votes -- just enough to win the election there. Also heard his phone call when he tried to blackmail Zelensky, which got him impeached the first time. All of this is well known, if you want to deny it, then have fun splashing around in DeNial river.

But I'm curious, are you one of these Biden haters who says he has for sure committed crimes, and should be locked up, if not hung for treason? Honestly don't know if you are or aren't, but there are plenty of ATS'ers who do make this claim, and I have never seen you challenge them and accuse them of behaving in a Soviet-like fashion.

originally posted by: IndieA

originally posted by: matafuchs
a reply to: MrInquisitive

So someone who is indicted is guilty? How very Soviet of you. I hope in your lifetime you are never accused of something you did not do. It is a horrible feeling knowing you could be in trouble for something you did not do but others say you did.

Being wrongly accused in an awful feeling, but have you ever been wrongly accused by someone likely guilty of what they are accusing you of?

Are you seriously claiming that Trump didn't have all these classified documents, even though he has even acknowledged having them, and has claimed they're his? I think we all know about being falsely accused of something, but in this case there is an overwhelming amount of evidence backing up the accusations of these crimes he appears to have committed. Also, try reading my immediate previous post if you want more evidence of his crimes, including ones that he has lost court cases over.

originally posted by: IndieA
a reply to: Threadbare

How much of it is related to the 2020 election?

Zero, zilch, nada. Have you even bothered to pay attention to this news story or this thread? This evidence concerns the Mar-a-Lago documents case, WHICH IS THE TOPIC OF THIS THREAD.

The Jan. 6 investigation, which the same special counsel is conducting, appears to be looking into attempted election fraud by Trump in attempting to overturn the election. But I am guessing that your meaning is different, in that you are asking if the 2020 election itself is being investigated. No, it isn't. And do you know why? Because no good evidence has been provided to show any systematic voting irregularities that would've changed the election result. Trump lost 62 of 63 cases he had litigated over the election, the one he won had to do with some procedural matter.

And don't you think the Republicans in the House would be investigating the results of the 2020 election if they really thought shenanigans occurred? You know, the ones who are now investigating Hunter Biden nudie pics? Also, I haven't heard all the Republicans who got elected or re-elected in 2020 complaining about their elections being rigged. Why would only Trump's election be rigged if the Democrats were up to no good and trying to steal the election? Wouldn't they have wanted to control the House as well in order to avoid even the possibility of congress investigating the elections? Also that big, long, way over deadline Arizona election audit ended up finding more votes for Biden over Trump than the original election results.

The trial is set to begin on Monday, May 20, 2024. Trump's lawyers were unable to get the trial postponed until after the election.

a reply to: MrInquisitive

What I meant was, how many of the classified documents that were retrieved from Mar-a-lago, were regarding the 2020 election? How can you be so sure that the answer is zero?

Trump had been dealing with a situation where there was a lot of evidence, of not only systematic election fraud, but of a national cover-up (of which I helped document on ATS here and here). I know this is hearsay, but I had heard from someone close to the auditing efforts, that over $8 billion was spent on covering up election fraud evidence. The arrest of Tina Peters after exposing election record manipulation, is one example.

Assuming a preponderance of evidence of systematic election fraud existed and was being covered up, we have a situation where the people who are trying to expose or combat this fraud, are being accused of election crimes themselves, however possible. These accusations would be coming from a party, or "deep state" guilty of the worst election fraud crime in US history, and an embarrassing one at that, stealing a Presidential election.

I propose that the national security apparatus has been used to cover-up the current administration's stolen election, hide current election manipulation capabilities for possible future use, and has been weaponized against many of those people who have attempted to bring truth to light. Current events seem to be a continuation of this suspected agenda. I further suggest that this is already apparent to many Americans. "You can fool all of the people some of the time, and some of the people all of the time, but you can't fool all of the people all of the time."



How can we ever forget?

a reply to: IndieA

So, he just happened in addition to take military plans, information on our nuclear vulnerabilities and intelligence asset information just for? And he has all these "top secret election information docs" but just decided to sit on it for 18 months? And the government had "top secret election info"? Never mentioned before he was out of office by him even though he hired two additional firms to investigate fraud and they found none, and Barr said there was none, and he lost just about every court case? And he's still silent about it,because he wants to pay more lawyers and go to trial for a big bombshell? Yet he's on his social media claiming charges should be dismissed? Can you make your theory make sense to anyone?

a reply to: IndieA

I propose that the national security apparatus has been used to cover-up the current administration's stolen election, hide current election manipulation capabilities for possible future use, and has been weaponized against many of those people who have attempted to bring truth to light.

You are not wrong.
Thanks for the info

a reply to: MrInquisitive

Lots of leaks from Trump Investigators..dating back to 2017. Most know this.

originally posted by: Threadbare
The trial is set to begin on Monday, May 20, 2024. Trump's lawyers were unable to get the trial postponed until after the election.

Due to motions and requests and appeals, the trial will not start until after the election...which means it will not start. The appeals will rise up to Justice Clarence Thomas for final determination.

CNN and MSNBC are mad. A GREAT SIGN!

But between now and then, libs will invest a lot of time in covering what all can and will happen...thereby boosting candidate Trump's fundraising.

a reply to: IndieA

OK, I'll bite. That's a new on me, that Trump had classified records about 2020 election shenanigans. As @TB and @F453 have already suggested, why wouldn't Trump have declassified that information when he was still president and could've done so legally, IF IT WAS A THING?

I did go to the two links you provided. Didn't see any posts by you, but I also am not going to go through 368 pages of a thread in which the tinfoil hat is strong. The Maricopa Co. Audit by the pro-Trump group happened, and guess what? Biden ended up coming out ahead by even more votes. And some of the links in the OP of these threads are 404, and one article is trying to make a big deal out of the fact that Dominion has an NDA agreement with Maricopa Co., when in fact all voting machine companies are going to have such agreements with customers because they don't want the software or equipment in their machines disclosed, which would make them easier to hack.

Yeah, and as for that hearsay about $8 billion spent on covering up election fraud efforts, pffffrrrrrt!. First off, it's hearsay, so it means nothing. And how much of that $8 billion was spent in Georgia and Arizona, two Republican controlled states? Don't you think that some Republicans might have raised a stink if this happened? Trump had his day in court 63 times and he lost all but one of these cases, many overseen by GOP and even Trump-appointed judges. Or are you also suggesting that a lot of this $8 billion went into bribing GOP and Trump-appointed judges and GOP politicians? And where would this $8 billion have come from?

And you want to assume a preponderance of evidence of election rigging/fraud has been covered up and propose that the National Security apparatus has been responsible for doing so, even though the NS app was run by Trump appointees for more than two months after the election, and even Trump's own AG has said there was no evidence of significant election regularity? You're welcome to come up with any whacky theories you want, but you really need to provide some evidence in order for those who are not Trump cultists to believe you.

As to the vote tally curve with the "WTF" jump in it, that is caused either by some large urban county finally releasing its vote tally or mail-in ballots being tallied. It is a well-known phenomena that Republican election experts are well aware of. And if it were otherwise, the court case(s) in Michigan would've more than likely have end in Trump's favor.

Also, why weren't the Republicans who won their elections complaining about the election results? And how come the Republicans were even able to win the House at all if $8 billion was spent on election fraud? Wouldn't the evil-doing Democrats have ensured their majority there as well in order to control the government, as well as to forestall any possible House investigations of the election? And why haven't the Republicans in the House had any hearings on this matter? I'll tell you why: they know Trump lost the election fair and square, and any hearings they held would only help to confirm this.

But it really goes back to my first paragraph, and what @TB @F453 have said as well. If Trump had the goods on election hijinks, why didn't he present this info to the public and in his 63 court cases concerning alleged election fraud? He had the authority to do so when he was president. Did you really not consider this obvious flaw in your hypothesis before making the claim?

originally posted by: shooterbrody
a reply to: IndieA

I propose that the national security apparatus has been used to cover-up the current administration's stolen election, hide current election manipulation capabilities for possible future use, and has been weaponized against many of those people who have attempted to bring truth to light.

You are not wrong.
Thanks for the info

Yeah, the person is right just because they claim it to be so. Evidently you don't see the flaw in the logic that has been pointed out by three members now.

originally posted by: carewemust
a reply to: MrInquisitive

Lots of leaks from Trump Investigators..dating back to 2017. Most know this.

There have been some leaks. Won't argue that. But what does that have to do with mountain of evidence against him in this case?

originally posted by: MrInquisitive

originally posted by: shooterbrody
a reply to: IndieA

I propose that the national security apparatus has been used to cover-up the current administration's stolen election, hide current election manipulation capabilities for possible future use, and has been weaponized against many of those people who have attempted to bring truth to light.

You are not wrong.
Thanks for the info

Yeah, the person is right just because they claim it to be so. Evidently you don't see the flaw in the logic that has been pointed out by three members now.

They are far more correct than your incoherent gobbledygook.
There is an actual reason you were not addressed.
Wet farts contain more substance than what you offer here.

originally posted by: shooterbrody

originally posted by: MrInquisitive

originally posted by: shooterbrody
a reply to: IndieA

I propose that the national security apparatus has been used to cover-up the current administration's stolen election, hide current election manipulation capabilities for possible future use, and has been weaponized against many of those people who have attempted to bring truth to light.

You are not wrong.
Thanks for the info

Yeah, the person is right just because they claim it to be so. Evidently you don't see the flaw in the logic that has been pointed out by three members now.

They are far more correct than your incoherent gobbledygook.
There is an actual reason you were not addressed.
Wet farts contain more substance than what you offer here.

Incoherent gobblygook, huh? Then take your best shot at picking apart any of my "incoherent" arguments rather than just making ad hominem attacks.

If you are really denying the point made by three members already that if this election fraud by the government were actually a thing, and there were classified documents concerning it that Trump held, and yet he didn't make them public when he could've and used them in his court filings as well, then you've made manifestly clear how illogical, dogmatic and non-objective you are in this matter.

Could you please explain why Trump wouldn't have declassified such documents and made them public when he was president, and used them in his various court cases claiming election fraud?

Also, on a side note, I recall you stating somewhere in this thread that this trial wouldn't happen until after the election, whereas I suggested sometime in spring 2024. Seems I'm at least grounded in reality in my views.

a reply to: MrInquisitive
You may be used to telling others what to do where you are, as to here, eat scat.
You were not addressed.
You will not be addressed further as what you offer is bagatelle.

originally posted by: Moresby

I'm still addressing you, and you still haven't substantiated in any way your claim that what I wrote was incoherent gobblygook, and that the hypothesis you are going with regarding the possibility of some of the classified documents Trump was holding showed election tampering has any reasonable basis in fact.

You want to ignore me? Fine. But don't expect me or others to let your unsupported claims go unchallenged.

originally posted by: shooterbrody
a reply to: MrInquisitive
You may be used to telling others what to do where you are, as to here, eat scat.
You were not addressed.
You will not be addressed further as what you offer is bagatelle.

I think we found Ante.
Same exact schtick.
There really should be a limit on how many thousands of words someone can vomit forth, per day.
Or maybe more controls on posting from jail, hospital, house arrest, etc.