The Holocaust: A Tactful Discussion

a reply to: incoserv

I agree with what you said, it was very succinct. Then factor in that Stalin killed most likely twice that number and you start to wonder what the facts are.

a reply to: DBCowboy

And that is just the fact of the matter and bang on the money.

a reply to: NeoNotSee

It would be nice to have the truth, but we'll never get it.

The fact of the matter is, Germany lost; and history is written by the victors.

What we do know, however, is what led to his reign of terror.

Socialism.

originally posted by: incoserv
What has always bothered me about this topic is that the first, last and usually only thing people talk about is the "holocaust" where "six-million Jews were killed."

Estimates are that about 17,000,000 people in total were exterminated by the third Reich. That means that barely over 1/3 of the victims of the third reich were Jews (if the numbers are accurate).

IMO, it is an insult to every other ethnic group, nationality, and demographic to talk about the "6,000,000 Jews," as though the other 11,000,000 just kinda don't really count '

Can anybody explain the reason behind this to me?

That's a more reasonable approach to the subject than implying the Holocaust was exaggerated or fabricated and innocent Nazis were wrongfully prosecuted.

soon as I saw the title I thought that this is just gonna turn into a bin fire of a thread.
The OP confirmed my suspicion.

I think its utterly mental when we are asked to take the word of a mass murderer that they didnt kill so many.

The reason Hitler is talked about more than Mao or Stalin is intent...he actually wanted to kill entire ethnic groups the others just didnt value any lives.

**disclaimer** I just want be clear, I am not anti-jewish, I am however anti-Isreal. The government and state of Isreal is abhorrent, hypocritical, and is guilty of the same crimes they hold so heavy over the Nazi's

a reply to: NeoNotSee
First of all you fail to recognize that the term "jew" denotes a religious sect. There were Polish jewish, German jews, Slovakian Jews, Hungarian jews...ect

Second, you get no pass from me on your moniker. You know full well its implications and your attempts to lessen its impact have failed.

Who were the victors? who got to write that history book in the end?
Where did all the "Nazis" go? The U.S., Argentina? Israel?

Haavara Agreement

It was a major factor in making possible the migration of approximately 60,000 German Jews to Palestine in 1933–1939.[1]

Who founded Israel? why do they hate (Palestinian) jews?

Did nazi's kill millions, probably, and they still do

The 6M number is an approximation. This might not even account for the mass roundups of jews in Poland and other occupied countries where jews were rounded up for a "census" or other pretext and the old and feeble shot on site leaving the younger ones to go home, for the time being, and others sent to a '"work camp". The number of deaths caused by the Nazis was much higher that 6M but this is the rounded up or down figure when it comes to Europe's jewish population.

Auschwitz 1.1 Million Dead approx 960,000 Jews
www.auschwitz.org...
More Numbers
www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org...
Good chart of deaths by camps
www.thoughtco.com...

As to why a man would lie in this trial, because men lie. To paint a large picture of the atrocities committed by the German oppressors against the jews and other Germans would be an embarrassment to his nation. Nevertheless, there is enough documentation out there to support the death of millions of jews and other 'undesirable or deviants' by the Reich during WWII. It is easier to paint larger numbers in other nations than in his own Fatherland, IMHO.

a reply to: NeoNotSee

whatever your explanation, that username and the content of your op tells me you're trolling. you don't like it that the owner of this establishment allows this topic as long as it is presented in a respectful and "tactful" manner, whatever that means.

you're one of those guys who believes in free speech as long as no one questions what you believe or hold sacred, then free speech goes out the window.

is the topic in poor taste? yes. we have more than sufficient evidence of the atrocities committed that questioning the holocaust is like saying the earth is flat. the numbers and what inconsistencies may exist are irrelevant.

your purpose here is obvious. i understand your point to some extent, but it is underscored by your authoritarian attitude regarding topics you don't think should be questioned.

i'll see myself out and go back to lurking status.

a reply to: NeoNotSee

Most of the people killed weren't done at camps but by the hands of SS death squads or in labor camps collectively by being over worked and under fed. Einsatzgruppen alone were estimated to have killed nearly 1.5 million people.

Not everyone died of asphyxiation in the gas chambers...

User name of the OP is certainly an attention grabber! And the topic to go along with it, rather interesting. Might get tricky.

originally posted by: greendust
You know another thing that has always bothered me about the WW2 era is that prior to and during the era Stalin actually murdered more people than Hitler. And yet somehow those numbers arent as important. Why?

Why don't you consider that as important?

Most others do I would think.

a reply to: greendust

You know another thing that has always bothered me about the WW2 era is that prior to and during the era Stalin actually murdered more people than Hitler.

Many people on here are well aware that Stalin was responsible for millions of people's deaths, same as Mao and an alarmingly large number of other dictators etc.

But that isn't the topic under discussion here.
Start a thread about them and I'm sure many people will contribute.

a reply to: NeoNotSee

I don't think the crimes of the Nazi's should be reduced to statistics. Any death as a result of prejudice against an entire demographic purely because of race or religion is disgusting.

You're right tho, the 6 million Jews figure is from my research inflated and not backed by any real evidence or reliable data.

Did the Nazis kill Jews en masse? Most certainly.

Was that number inflated by a media network heavily influenced by elite Jewish interest groups? No doubt.

The biggest loss in numbers of deaths, territoriality and economically was suffered by the German people. It just goes to show what happens when people follow ideologies blindly.

Historical persecution is not an excuse to censor legitimate criticism.

The Diocletianic certainly never absolved Christian leaders of their crimes against humanity.

I have been to Auschwitz and many years ago I worked with a man who was amongst the first allied troops into Belsen.
Its undeniable that millions of Jews and other undesirables were killed in the Nazi Death Camps, by the roving Death Squads and various other means.

This was a determined and thoroughly thought out systematic attempt to eradicate a whole race and religion.

Personally I think attempts to minimise, excuse or trivialise are abhorrent.

This shouldn't be a taboo subject, we should encourage discussion and welcome the opportunity to disprove the deniers and apologists.
People should never be allowed to forget the horrors that occurred.

a reply to: Freeborn

I don't think that's the OP's intention. He's merely stating there's no concrete evidence to backup the claim that 6 million jews died in the holocaust. Personally, i agree with your sentiment, 1 death of an innocent man because of his religious belief is too many.

Every religion has been persecuted and all men suffer for the sins of their fathers. The holocaust is an abhorrent scar on the face of humanity, it is however by no means unique or new. Stalin and Churchill sent as many men to their deaths as Hitler. While men follow blindly into the abyss, this divisive animalistic behavior will continue to condemn our species to failure. It's long past time we took personal responsibility for our actions and stop fighting for beliefs which are born from indoctrination of ideology. Soldiers fight in wars to advance the goals and aims of men they've never even heard of, nor do they understand the process which drives their struggle.

No man, regardless of their reasoning or perceived historical injustice should be above the law.

What's the difference between an allied "internment camp" and a Nazi "concentration camp"? Nothing other than the driving ideology behind them and the labels and doctrine which created them.

The Holocaust: A Tactful Discussion

A tactful Discussion about Genocide?


You will be judged in years to come by how you responded to genocide.

Just a idea that would bring the numbers to over 6M.
russia cccp, america and england kept the camps running?
they had a chance to get rid of of a lot of people.

so after they took picture then clean up
the camps they start them running again.
why? so they could silently take over all the countries.
then run them.

They russia, america and england shared out the spoils of war?

Just my Idea.


If 6 M jew died in the camps.
then if you add all the russian, gypsies, disabled,
coloured and others What would the numbers be?

a reply to: buddha

With over 10% of Western populations classified as disabled, the numbers would be exponentially higher. In an effective and organised genocide then you'd expect far more from this demographic comparatively to those religiously persecuted.

It's reprehensible and disgusting, yet the truth does not consider morality when referring to statistical facts. Even i find my words distasteful, yet i stand by them.

a reply to: greendust

Also as a Russian on this board once taught me - and I researched his claim - that the US Army at the end of WW2 starved to death thousands upon thousands of German POW's.

Where?

When?

And why?

Spring to mind there.

I would not mind some proof of the claim nether if there is indeed any veracity to such.

a reply to: andy06shake

NY TImes - IKE and the dead Germans

Disclaimer: I do not agree nor condone the opinions expressed in the article above. It will however allow you to research the claims if you choose to do so.

"War will exist until that distant day when the conscientious objector enjoys the same reputation and prestige that the warrior does today." JFK