Hollywood, FL Shooting

originally posted by: MaximusParvus
a reply to: Irishhaf

we Can't even agree on what a women is ffs...

The real problem is that we can’t agree on anything.

We will lie to ourselves, and lie to each others, to assume a position of being right, and labeling those that do not agree with us as hostile or terrorist.

We will never move forward when we are constantly pushing each other backwards. What is good for some is always bad for some others. We only remember that when we are some of the others.

originally posted by: seagull
a reply to: EternalShadow

Due process as in state by state voting on proposed amendments? As the Founding Fathers intended?

Then YES, YES, THOUSANDS OF TIMES YES.

Awwww..... you're a bit Maga, lol...😊

originally posted by: DBCowboy
Murder is already illegal.

What gun laws would have stopped it?

We should ask the entire rest of the developed world, where stuff like this isn't normal.

originally posted by: LordAhriman

originally posted by: DBCowboy
Murder is already illegal.

What gun laws would have stopped it?

We should ask the entire rest of the developed world, where stuff like this isn't normal.

Which part of the world is that exactly?
Kosovo?
Ethiopia?
Syria?
North Korea?
Antarctica?

I would dare say that even here in the US, these events are far from normal. It is because we compartmentalize it differently or sweep it under the rug, or fail to resolve the issues that cause these events, that is not normal.

originally posted by: datguy
Which part of the world is that exactly?
Kosovo?
Ethiopia?
Syria?
North Korea?
Antarctica?

I would dare say that even here in the US, these events are far from normal. It is because we compartmentalize it differently or sweep it under the rug, or fail to resolve the issues that cause these events, that is not normal.

Are any of those developed countries?

What issues would you say cause these events?

a reply to: spacedoubt

For the most part I disagree.

Some murders are personal, but that is a small percentage. Gang related murder is typically someone who wore the wrong color baseball cap in the wrong part of town. They don't know each other personally, but are familiar with the gang association and that is what they act on. In fact, many of the shootings in Chicago when it is personal end up being mistaken identity. Gangs don't care about individual identity. You are part of them and that makes you the enemy.

As for a solution, I think that is a two part answer.

1) Make criminals fear the judicial system not embrace it. Right now violent felons are being released early or not even sent to prison in the first place. There is no incentive to obey the law and no consequences for breaking it. Legislation does not change behavior. Making something illegal does not stop people from doing it. That is why gun laws are a failure before they even begin. If legislation worked, murder, which is illegal, would not happen and there would be no mass shootings. It follows to reason then that more legislation, making the act even more illegal, will have no effect. Especially when the alleged consequences are removed from the equation.

2) A crime of passion, something personal, is a shame. But random senseless killing, just because, is a new kind of sick. The punishment should be swift, severe, and public. Let the world watch as the cold blooded killer is put down once and for all. Bring back public hanging, firing squads, whatever will have the most impact. That is what is needed at this point. People need to see with their own eyes what will happen if that is the path they choose. If media impact is such a powerful tool, lets use to to solve problems instead of create them.

a reply to: LordAhriman

In context, the level of development, is just one more way to compartmentalize the issues and sweep them under the rug.

The myriad of issues that cause these events hide behind political biases and are never revealed.
We can blame the guns or race or culture or politics all day long but it only gets back to the top of the cycle and starts all over again.
The roots causes of the events would only be known by the perpetrator of the event, but how many times do they die in the end? leaving the rest of us to postulate and blame based on political, racial and social bias. Unless you want to drink the cool aid and just take the "official word" for the cause. but then I ask, What was the official cause for columbine, sandy hook, pulse?
What was the cause for the event in this OP?
Are the guns that good at jedi mind tricks?

originally posted by: datguy
What was the official cause for columbine, sandy hook, pulse?
What was the cause for the event in this OP?

Crazy f#cks with easy access to guns.

originally posted by: LordAhriman

originally posted by: datguy
What was the official cause for columbine, sandy hook, pulse?
What was the cause for the event in this OP?
Are the guns that good at jedi mind tricks?

Crazy f#cks with easy access to guns.

Ok so were halfway there, but you let those pesky jedi guns get to much control.
What makes these people crazy?

originally posted by: datguy
Ok so were halfway there, but you let those pesky jedi guns get to much control.
What makes these people crazy?

Crazy people exist all over the world. Why is this only a problem in the US?

originally posted by: LordAhriman

originally posted by: datguy
Ok so were halfway there, but you let those pesky jedi guns get to much control.
What makes these people crazy?

Crazy people exist all over the world. Why is this only a problem in the US?

Fnord?
It isn't only a problem in the US, there ARE crazy people all over the world.
But what makes them crazy?
I would debate that, by your logic, if you remove the crazy, then you remove the root cause of these violent reactions.
What makes them crazy?

originally posted by: spacedoubt


Do you have any ideas on stopping gun violence?
Especially mass shootings? Maybe remind people that AR-15s are not religious totems?

Yes, the death penalty for any crime committed with a firearm.

QED

originally posted by: datguy
I would debate that, by your logic, if you remove the crazy, then you remove the root cause of these violent reactions.
What makes them crazy?

It's not that simple. Some people are born that way, some people are bullied into snapping, some people go crazy spending too much time on extremist internet forums, some people are crazy from things they have witnessed in their life, some people are crazy due to abuse from another crazy person. You can't remove the crazy people from society, new ones are being created at any given moment.

Name another 1st world country where this happens with any kind of frequency. You seem to be dodging that question with stretching of the word "developed", and just saying that it's not only the US. Name another country that has this problem.

originally posted by: DBCowboy
Yes, the death penalty for any crime committed with a firearm.

I'm totally okay with that.

a reply to: LordAhriman

Because in some countries they cut off you hands for stealing. In the US it is videotaped and broadcast with no arrests.

There is no accountability anymore.

a reply to: LordAhriman

Greenland
Finland
Venezuela
England
France
depends on how you compartmentalize the terms being used.
Gun deaths by country 2023

Mass shooting by country 2023

So there is the information you asked for
It is that simple.
if we focused on resolving the issues you mentioned, that make people crazy. we can definitely make a difference.
But as long we come up with excuses NOT to do it or decide to blame factors that are only relevant after the events have taken place, then we cant really accomplish anything.

originally posted by: datguy

From your link.

Mass shootings are part of the larger issue of overall gun violence, which is notably higher in the United States than in other wealthy and developed countries. Countries with similar levels of gun-related deaths tend to be still-developing countries mired in violent civil unrest, revolution, or war.

Exactly what I said.

Venezuela is a 3rd world country, and the other 4 that you listed do not have this problem.

originally posted by: LordAhriman

originally posted by: datguy
Which part of the world is that exactly?
Kosovo?
Ethiopia?
Syria?
North Korea?
Antarctica?

I would dare say that even here in the US, these events are far from normal. It is because we compartmentalize it differently or sweep it under the rug, or fail to resolve the issues that cause these events, that is not normal.

Are any of those developed countries?

What issues would you say cause these events?

is it just guns? I only ask, because the US is not the only country with guns, yet, I only hear about the US with regard to this issue.

What if we were to look at this from a fresh perspective and not one that MUST include AR #ing 15's as the number one reason, before any other discussion is had.

When did mass shootings first start to be a topic of discussion/worry? (note, this is not the question of when was the first mass shooting)

What societal factors have changed since the start of the current phenomenon?

How long has the US had guns?

What do the people who shoot many others (mass shooters) have in common if anything?

Does black = evil/bad?

I think if you honestly answer those questions, you might even find yourself questioning the narrative you have been programmed to parrot.

a reply to: LordAhriman

so regardless of what is said your only going to focus on that detail?

The frequency of the events are related to population density, and the effects on population are greater in other countries. And some of these countries have strict gun laws (ok maybe not Venezuela)

Even after we both acknowledged that there is a certain level of "crazy" that should be addressed.

we can look at other information for perspective:
Global comparison of gun policy
and then compare it with ,
Global comparison on health care

Just in case you want to compartmentalize which type of health care

Mental health care

originally posted by: LordAhriman

originally posted by: datguy
Ok so were halfway there, but you let those pesky jedi guns get to much control.
What makes these people crazy?

Crazy people exist all over the world. Why is this only a problem in the US?

OH, we might be peaking behind the curtain here a bit.

What do developed nations do with their crazy people?

In the US they are fed pills, arrested, and released, then usually either find street drugs, or more jail.
So is that the same in other developed nations?