Why leftist philosophies will never produce Utopia

Not all leftists argue that "human beings and modern society [are] the single biggest threat to all life on this planet." Also, some rightists do.

originally posted by: monkeyluv
Not all leftists argue that "human beings and modern society [are] the single biggest threat to all life on this planet." Also, some rightists do.

The ones who don't are viewed as right wing now sorry to say....

originally posted by: ketsuko

So really you can't just reduce everything down to simplicity and pure efficiency. We aren't social insects where it's in our nature to live like that.

Someone will always be in power, always, and those in power will have more than everyone else... Ther worst thing to humans is to provide full subsistence living as people then do nothing even if it means a real crappy life in the end. Why should I struggle for 10 years to be a doctor when I can just make bread and live the same? That is the downfall of communism. The doctor ends up getting a better house better food etc and slowly you end up with the haves and have nots over time and you get a system with 95% of the people live a life of poverty and 5% live in luxury.

This is what people just do not want to hear... "well I'm not talking about the 100 socialist/communist scenarios that have come and gone, I'm talking about the real one" Their ain't no real one, so people better find something that works for them.

originally posted by: Peeple
a reply to: ChaoticOrder

Many intellectuals on the left speak of life extension technology or even immortality...

Really? Only on the left? Hilarious.

because we know socialism works so well

wiki
Scandavia, albeit on a smaller scale, is much happier, healthier and more concerned about the well-being of their citizens than the US. (Not saying perfect)
So yes, it actually totally does work.

Fertilizer

Is a double edged sword, because it seeps into the groundwater and a lot of the current products are under suspicion to be crazy cancerogenic.
You got to regulate that. But in a liberal, capitalistic country the pretty much only option to steer consumers is by customer choice, ie making buying it unattractive.

That's just how much they care about saving every human life they can. They tell us to drive less, eat less, shower less, buy less, go out less, don't warm your house so much, eat insects instead of meat, it goes on and on...

Or you can get creative, develop better ideas, work with on developing self-sustainable small communities and even save the world as happy byproduct.

Instead of just throwing a tantrum...

The real reason the Nordic Model worked?
They weren't paying 20%+ of their GDP on Civil Defense.
Since the 1940s Europe was living under the US defense bubble. In fact most of the world is under that defense bubble.

Norway 2% in 2020. Most other western countries is 1-3%.

Now Imagine the defense spending by all those countries if that US defense bubble was never there? 10, 15, or even 20% of GDP if there was a threat to their sovereignty. Simply put these "governments" have been spending their money on butter instead of guns. In a world without the US they would have either collapsed or gone to some other system a long time ago.

As far as the US health system goes well....That was effed up by Obamacare. Blame Socialists Democrats for that.

a reply to: ketsuko

Ok, if you put it that way, identity politics really is the culmination of dumb.

originally posted by: Terpene
a reply to: ketsuko

Ok, if you put it that way, identity politics really is the culmination of dumb.

You'll find no disagreement from me. I'm glad you get it now.

I can name 5 major cities I used to live in during the 90's that were close to Utopia for me, that are now cesspools ridden with crime, homelessness, human excrement and drug paraphernalia.

Liberal strongholds, every last one.

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: ketsuko

People really are the problem with a lot of things along with the power structures we make for ourselves.

How we live is what we create so when someone comes along with some nifty "better" idea I need to ask them if it is so good why are we not in it already....

Fo shizzle, my nizzle...

originally posted by: ntech

The real reason the Nordic Model worked?
They weren't paying 20%+ of their GDP on Civil Defense.
Since the 1940s Europe was living under the US defense bubble. In fact most of the world is under that defense bubble.

Norway 2% in 2020. Most other western countries is 1-3%.

Now Imagine the defense spending by all those countries if that US defense bubble was never there? 10, 15, or even 20% of GDP if there was a threat to their sovereignty. Simply put these "governments" have been spending their money on butter instead of guns. In a world without the US they would have either collapsed or gone to some other system a long time ago.

As far as the US health system goes well....That was effed up by Obamacare. Blame Socialists Democrats for that.

Well, also they have a population of only 5 million with zero responsibilities other than their own population.

a reply to: Peeple

wiki Scandavia, albeit on a smaller scale, is much happier, healthier and more concerned about the well-being of their citizens than the US. (Not saying perfect) So yes, it actually totally does work.

Don't they have some pretty shady euthanasia policies going in those countries? Yah sounds really happy and caring.

a reply to: ThirdEyeofHorus

they also loved sterilising/castrating the wrong kinds of people.. I guess that's another example of a happy people especially if you're happy to remove the rights even to procreation from groups you want removed from your society.

Moores Utopian world was always one where its utopia for some and dystopia for the rest, hence his ability to set fire to those with views different to his.. Utopia is an excuse for social cleaning and it always appeals to those who like the idea of cleansing the world of views that differ to theirs..

Involuntary Sterilization and Castration in Sweden and the Nordic Countries

In 1934, the first sterilisation act was enacted in Sweden followed by the first castration act in 1944. In 1972, Sweden became the first country in the world to enact legislation for the amendment of legally registered sex, however preconditioned on sterilisation. In the implementation of all these laws, voluntary and involuntary interventions have been made with legislative support. In 1997, Swedish newspapers reported on the historical, massive, eugenic ‘sterilisation projects’ of the welfare state – creating international, scandalous headlines.

Reagan was the spearhead of this dystopian world we are halfway engulfed by in 2023

a reply to: SecrettoSociety

Reagan thatcher unleashed extreme economic liberal globalism then Blair/Clinton unleashed extreme social liberal globalism its that combination married to the crusades in the ME that has created this destabilised and authoritarian world we live in,

the question is it robust enough to deal with the coming issues or will it implode like all others that have nothing to hold their populations together and left nothing worth saving..

a reply to: monkeyluv

the core green movement comes from conservative origins its science was also from conservative scientists that argued the need for population reduction, this is why their ideal model is not communistic but serf based, with serfs locked into small areas they will never leave in their lives.

they laid all this out in the early 1970s at the birth of the green movement.. they've just never said what their end solution looks like to reduce the population by 50%, nor who will go in the list of groups to be removed from the gene pool..

pre ww1 the same types talked of using lethal chambers to cleanse the gene pool of the poor even when sending them to the front they imagined their world cleansed of the defectives where poverty is a seen as a defect that a big pool needing to be removed/replaced.

they failed before we can only hope they fail again..

originally posted by: nickyw
a reply to: SecrettoSociety

Reagan thatcher unleashed extreme economic liberal globalism then Blair/Clinton unleashed extreme social liberal globalism its that combination married to the crusades in the ME that has created this destabilised and authoritarian world we live in,

the question is it robust enough to deal with the coming issues or will it implode like all others that have nothing to hold their populations together and left nothing worth saving..

I agree 100% Reagan & Bill Clinton created a lockstep path to a capitalist dystopia we are currently breaking in like new shoes . Within 10 years , today will feel like the good ole’ days .