Progressive Deception

a reply to: Xtrozero

I would argue the last thing woke is actually left wing, in a lot of ways its has the attributes of a dogmatic conservative religion, and while some like to claim its neopagan ironically for Biden/Pelosi it has all the hallmarks of a protestant sect.. in some regards this could be seen as a continuation of the reformation, you only have to look what is happening to some deeply roman catholic countries to notice the impact with Catholicism entering terminal decline..

and looking at the anglosphere the most woke of all are catholic majority countries. its no mistake England is seen as the beating heart of terfdom as the English have clashed with this protestant stream since the reformation, as protestant streams go it was a key one that drove the quakers to the Americas, during the 1970s it was relabeled libertarian communism by the then Marxists aiming to claim descent from such groups..

its this element that I think risks turning the west into a sectarian nightmare..

a reply to: SecrettoSociety

Rashida Tlaib needs a new space station to work with, it's a real shame how quick many progressives fell in line with the inertia of the revolving doors.

Top Secret America came to mind, from way back when it was still covering parts of the twilight...

originally posted by: nickyw

I would argue the last thing woke is actually left wing, in a lot of ways its has the attributes of a dogmatic conservative religion, and while some like to claim its neopagan ironically for Biden/Pelosi it has all the hallmarks of a protestant sect.. in some regards this could be seen as a continuation of the reformation, you only have to look what is happening to some deeply roman catholic countries to notice the impact with Catholicism entering terminal decline..

and looking at the anglosphere the most woke of all are catholic majority countries. its no mistake England is seen as the beating heart of terfdom as the English have clashed with this protestant stream since the reformation, as protestant streams go it was a key one that drove the quakers to the Americas, during the 1970s it was relabeled libertarian communism by the then Marxists aiming to claim descent from such groups..

its this element that I think risks turning the west into a sectarian nightmare..

Well then invent your own word for it as WOKE was invented by the right to label those who are now adware to all the craziness they now believe in.

BTW, religion in the west has less and less influence every decade, you are focusing in the wrong areas because sectarianism as you suggest is pretty much dead.

a reply to: Xtrozero

of course religion is in decline its being replaced by this one which is why sectarianism alive and well..

originally posted by: Blaine91555
a reply to: SecrettoSociety

Actually no we are not all racist. No doubt we all have our flaws and learned forms of bigotry, but assuming all of any ethnicity are in fact racist is in itself a form of bigotry, or hate if you prefer. This entire idea that all White people are racists just because they are White is nothing but hate that is doing a lot of harm.

It might be helpful if you defined what you personally mean by "Social Democrat". What are your core beliefs?

Most blacks don’t want to live with whites.

You're parroting a minority within a minority and that's utter nonsense. You must not know or have many people not of your ethnicity among your peers to think that.

Social Democracy as the Greeks formed & our founding Fathers set up . America in it’s formation was the most social democracy ever established .
We have yet to grow into “ all men created equal “ but the founding fathers were the most radical/progressive lot to ever grace this planet & it was that progressive social Declaration that created the greatest country on earth . Now America is a giant corporation out of control. You can have free market all day , you just need a tax code that can’t be worked around.
The top 25 Fortune 500 in American never have or will pay taxes . Want to guess what Mercedes Benz & Volkswagen pay in taxes to the German government ?
Taxes is how you level the elite into reality & uplift you middle class. No one can afford a Tesla if you pay for your own pension , healthcare & education out of your wage .
Americans laugh at EU countries that tax their people 40-50% of what they make . Yet in America most couples pay 25-30% total taxes & still have to pay out of pocket for healthcare , education & pensions ??
Who is getting ripped off ? Most Americans pay a combined tax & free market costs on education , pensions & insurance that equals well above 50% of their gains . Then in the end , medical bills will take most American’s wealth & homes just to survive.

a reply to: SecrettoSociety

You have made the classic error of not recognizing that the rich pay income taxes and that the corporations pay employees who also pay income taxes.

I just looked at the figures from the IRS. The top 1% of earners pay 42% of the taxes. The top 10% pay 74% and we are talking about people who earn over $400,000.00. Our tax system is so progressive the bottom half of earners in effect pay no or almost no income taxes.

Now if you raise the taxes too high on the wealthy it discourages job creation for everyone else. If the top 1% paid a 100% of their income in taxes, it would not even be a drop of water in the ocean, but it would increase unemployment greatly.

It's pretty basic stuff. Why do you think the politicians who espouse such idea's never actually follow through on their promises to take all the rich people's money? They know they are misleading you and everyone else. They know the rich are already paying most of the taxes. Unless the IRS is putting out false information.

a reply to: Jason79

Yep.

My husband has dealt with union issues as well from the standpoint of being company. No one can step in and help if it means doing something ruled off as "union" because they can file a grievance for "taking union work" even if that would mean helping someone who was overburdened that particular day for whatever reason. Similarly, if you let the union person step in to help you, they can file a grievance afterward because then that particular task becomes magically "union" and no one but union can perform it ever after.

It would kill my job. My primary duty is work flow, and one of my tasks is to step in if someone has a particularly heavy stack for whatever reason and I take some off them and do it myself to keep things running smoothly. It's no comment on anyone, just recognition that there is no even work flow at my job. Union would destroy that ability.

originally posted by: Blaine91555
a reply to: SecrettoSociety

You have made the classic error of not recognizing that the rich pay income taxes and that the corporations pay employees who also pay income taxes.

I just looked at the figures from the IRS. The top 1% of earners pay 42% of the taxes. The top 10% pay 74% and we are talking about people who earn over $400,000.00. Our tax system is so progressive the bottom half of earners in effect pay no or almost no income taxes.

Now if you raise the taxes too high on the wealthy it discourages job creation for everyone else. If the top 1% paid a 100% of their income in taxes, it would not even be a drop of water in the ocean, but it would increase unemployment greatly.

It's pretty basic stuff. Why do you think the politicians who espouse such idea's never actually follow through on their promises to take all the rich people's money? They know they are misleading you and everyone else. They know the rich are already paying most of the taxes. Unless the IRS is putting out false information.

The very time in America that everyone romanticizes about going back ti is the 50s-80s . That is the MAGA era that all the boomers & Trumpers harken to . Look at what the tax brackets were during those 40 years in America. America waa great , because the rich payed big time taxes in those years . Our schools were funded , college was cheap , people had social security nets , infrastructure & safe streets , all because of taxes .
I absolutely disagree with your tax ideas of today , because they are wrong.
Mitt Romney payed 14% in taxes last year .
Trump payed 16% in taxes etc etc .
You are entitled to an opinion , but not facts .
You are the working poor & you don’t even know it , because Shawn Hannity convinced you that he oays his fair share ? Lol lol lmao .
Go talk to a corporate tax lawyer once & ask who pays the most taxes in America ?
A Mark Lavine talking point on how the rich support everyone is the old King’s speech of “ Heavy is the Head that wears the Crown “ bull#hit . Amazon made 225 billion last year & paid zero in taxes on that.
What if Amazon payed 15% tax on that 225 billion ?
That tax would be 34 billion in taxes.
Amazon employee numbers are 1.5 million in the USA
lawn cutters to the CEO .
So let me break this math down for you according to your theory that the top corporations who pay no taxes are cool , because their mass number of employees pay taxes .
Hypothetically as above lets say Amazon payed 15% corporate taxes on 225 billion @ a 15% rate .
That number is 34,000 million dollars or 34 billion in taxes . Then lets factor in Amazon’s 1.5 million employee number & accept 60,000 a year for all 1.5 million knowing that 3/4s of that 1.5 million employee number are making less than 60,000 a year & the other 1/4 of management is making 60,000 plus a year.
1.5 million multiplied by 60,000 = 90 billion dollars in wages per year @ 20% tax = 18 billion of tax revenue from the 1.5 million Amazon employees .
Now let’s revisit the what if Amazon payed a 15% tax rate instead of 0% & that number was 34 billion.
Math don’t lie & you can see that your theory is disproved right here in reality.

a reply to: SecrettoSociety

Tax corporations 10,000%. Know who pays that tax? The consumer. So, if no one buys the product because it can’t compete, the corporation goes broke. People lose jobs and another over taxed company takes the hit because poor people don’t buy things unless they have to buy it, like food. And if they can’t afford food? You need more taxes to buy it for them.

By raising taxes on domestic production you effectively placed a tariff on yourself while encouraging imports. Weakening your economy and strengthening a country that might want to go to war with you one day. You are paying the enemy for the bullets used to eventually shoot you. Brilliant.

Meanwhile a thriving black market exists on circumvention items that zero tax is collected upon rather than a reasonable tax. Case in point, is there a medical or even recreational state that doesn’t have street level dealers to avoid the higher dispensary prices? Now what if that was coffee or syrup (Canada actually has a regulatory agency to control the price and supply of maple syrup)?

a reply to: Ahabstar

the problem is the west lives off a modern slave trade of cheap workers and cheap money and on growing their economies by growing that trade.. none of it is sustainable, we can't tax our way out of this not by increasing or decreasing rates..

each day addicted to this stuff the closer we get to the real revolutionary change, 100 years ago we saw a similar progressive liberalism collapse as its not a sustainable model..

a reply to: nickyw

It is modern slavery. Just over in the next room. So as not to offend the guests.

One of the most amazing things about both 1984 and Animal Farm was that Orwell himself was a Democratic Socialist and they were cautionary tales of it going too far.

But how much kinda pregnant is not pregnant or how much sorta racist isn’t racist at all?

Collectivism works, if everyone is part of the team and equally works towards the goal. Such as assembly line manufacturing. But if I am only putting in half the screws, the bookshelf is going to fall apart. What’s worse is I’ll get the same pay for a poor job. But I have seen unions that collect dues, do little negotiating and have leaders do Christmas shopping for their kids out of missing funds as less “company picnics” happen due to “rising expenses” in food or catering.

Saw it, wasn’t allowed to be non-union as a result. The punishment for that couple was that they didn’t get to join the national union yet remained president and treasurer of the local shop. There was even a “vote” in the shop to not replace them with not married to each other people in the positions.

When socialism becomes communism, it is too late to back out.

a reply to: Ahabstar

You don't even have to talk about marijuana. You can talk about black markets in cigarettes in some places. Eric Garner was killed by cops trying to arrest him for selling black market cigarettes.

a reply to: SecrettoSociety

I see threads like these occasionally and in my humble opinion, it is nothing more than a way to paint a favorable light on communism.

Nothing in your OP spoke of individual rights, the Constitution, or the freedoms to self-determine.

The problem with democratic socialism is that you can vote yourself into socializing a system, but you can't ever back out of it.

So once a system is nationalized/socialized, it's done and everyone is forced into it. Look at the terrible fights occurring over the idea that parents ought to be able to simply pick which schools their kids go to here in the states. That's what it looks like when a socialized system starts to be loosened and partially dismantled because it's failing. Usually, the excuse is that the surrounding and supporting systems aren't controlled too, and so it costs too much/there isn't enough money. So the push is to take over more systems and nationalize them too, or just keep taxing more to throw more money at a problem rather than actually solve it.

In a privatized system, the business fails.

a reply to: Xtrozero

no, the extreme poverty you see around the globe is all due to predatory American bank policies that put nations in massive debt while banning them from using any social programs to help their own people, those who disobey us end up in a civil war, have leaders assassinated, or are invaded and occupied. and if you havent noticed, America has extreme poverty while every nation with social programs do not, banks and corporations are destroying America and have been for many decades regardless which party is in office because they keep deregulating everything, yet so many keep calling for more deregulation? its simple, Americans are idiots who are just asking for exploitation, this country is slowly dying because deregulation and no one seems to notice and wont notice until extreme poverty is affecting everyone and the USA is being occupied by the Chinese because our military falls apart and we become unable to defend ourselves.

wake up, both parties sold out to banks and corporations many years ago and all that wealth we've generated never went to us the American people, its all went to the pockets of corporations, banks and politicians. honestly if it wasn't for china the global economy would've collapsed in the 90's because the actions of American corporations, banks and politicians.

a reply to: namehere

kinda interesting then that it looks like the us owes $14 trillion more than they are owed all while its banks are siting on $1.7 trillion of losses, that doesn't even touch the supposed missing $80 trillion..

really wondering how long before the entire thing implodes.. am not sure the decline will be slow as at this point it looks like the real risk is a soviet style freefall..

originally posted by: ketsuko
The problem with democratic socialism is that you can vote yourself into socializing a system, but you can't ever back out of it.

So once a system is nationalized/socialized, it's done and everyone is forced into it. Look at the terrible fights occurring over the idea that parents ought to be able to simply pick which schools their kids go to here in the states. That's what it looks like when a socialized system starts to be loosened and partially dismantled because it's failing. Usually, the excuse is that the surrounding and supporting systems aren't controlled too, and so it costs too much/there isn't enough money. So the push is to take over more systems and nationalize them too, or just keep taxing more to throw more money at a problem rather than actually solve it.

In a privatized system, the business fails.

sure you can, America is a perfect example of how to dismantle nationalization, many things used to be nationalized in the US even though they worked well, heck our roads, highways system and all that is nationalized still and its very well funded yet i dont see anyone complaining about it.

originally posted by: SecrettoSociety
a reply to: Blaine91555
I believe that racism is natural to animals & social Democracy is the only way to level it .

So you're in favor of laws to prevent rabbits from being racist against penguins?

Most blacks don’t want to live with whites .

So you're in favor of forcing Blacks to 'live with Whites'? What about forcing Whites to live with Blacks?

Also, I presume that you mean you want to force Blacks and Whites to live with each other in the same houses, not separate houses, because, you know, them living in separate houses is obviously racist, so needs to be socially Democratized.

We are all racist .

There obviously are still a few racists around, but they are few and far between. That said, we are all discriminatory in our beliefs, preferences and actions. That is called reality, and no amount of your insane 'social Democracy' can alter reality.

originally posted by: nickyw
a reply to: namehere

kinda interesting then that it looks like the us owes $14 trillion more than they are owed all while its banks are siting on $1.7 trillion of losses, that doesn't even touch the supposed missing $80 trillion..

really wondering how long before the entire thing implodes.. am not sure the decline will be slow as at this point it looks like the real risk is a soviet style freefall..

i meant our collapse began in the 70's and has been slowly building with every bad economic policy decision under every president and Congress since nixon, whether Democrat or Republican, both have been slowly and steadily destroying America. either too much regulation or too little, too high taxes or too low, either cutting social programs too much or implementing disastrous social programs that dont function as intended, to name a few issues, so its been a slow marching economic collapse playing out over decades.

originally posted by: SecrettoSociety
a reply to: Jason79
Almost every corporate CEO & investment board hates Unions which by default should tell you just how important Unions are needed by the average worker in America.
The 50s-80s saw a 25-40% Union membership in America

False, as anyone who knows how to use a search engine can easily verify for themselves...

For example:

"As a percent of employed workers, union membership peaked in 1954 at 28.3%. In 2003, 11.5% of employed workers were union members."

So, forgive me if I totally ignore the rest of your unsubstantiated musing.

I'll just close with the fact that the largest by far sector for Union Membership is the Public Sector, meaning, government employees, which are the one sector where allowing Unions is just insane, because there is no natural competition in the Public sector, because, as we all know, the government hates competition.

While there was at least an argument to be made long ago (exploitative child labor, harsh unsafe working conditions, etc), the advent of legal protections for workers has margely made the need for unions obsolete.

Today, all Unions do is double or triple the cost for everything they touch, and dramatically complicate things to the point that it makes new competitors in any industry run by the unions essentially impossible.