The Jesus of the Bible was a communist. If you aren't a communist, then you are anti-Christ.

originally posted by: sapien82
a reply to: ltrz2025
Many religious scholars have documented the life of jesus none have come to the same conclusion as you.

First, this is an argumentum ad verecundiam, known as a fallacy of authority. You are trying to refute me by saying that some "scholars" said something. That doesn't prove anything. I've also read many other "scholars", "priests", and normal human beings augmenting for the opposite to what you say. Truth is not a popularity contest.

All the rest you wrote are simply personal opinions, that I respect, but don't share. I think you think this way because you refuse to accept the basic notion of communism. Your only "argument" is to force the belief that communism is only what we saw in the 20th century in Russia. Well, it's not, in its basic definition a communist society is a society with no private property, where the wealth is shared by everyone, and where there are no economic classes. Those three characteristics exist in the native populations I referenced to and also in the way the life of Jesus was described (which is the type of life ALL CHRISTIANS should follow, as commanded by the Lord). The fact that you don't like this, doesn't make it less true.




P.S.: I think I'm antagonizing people who call themselves Christians, but don't necessarily follow the Christian law. If by simply reading the literal message of the bible I'm antagonizing Christians... don't you think there is a problem there?....

a reply to: sapien82

It has already been pointed out that Christ taught in terms of personal property. If the expectation is a society absent this, his teachings would cease to have cultural meaning and relevance.

It has also been pointed out that several prominent Biblical men, Godly men, were also either wealthy in their own right, made wealthy by God, or even saved by Christ without being required to surrender all their wealth.

Additionally, Christ had to live a perfect life u der the Law which would have required Him to make offerings. If you have nothing of your own, you have nothing to offer and cannot be spotless.

How could the Lord find fault or favor in the offerings of His followers if His followers were never intended to have anything of their own to offer?

a reply to: ketsuko

Yet here you are defending a system that encourages this.

The actual problem starts at importing more than will be consumed.
it all boils down to maximize profit,
It's all garnered towards the consumer, the full shelf at any time is what benefits profit, and provokes all the waste, but in our love of freedom we expect to buy anything anytime anywhere.

It's also known that a full shelf encourages you to buy more.
It's all for profit... If they could, they'd sell you the rotten apple.
again it's the elected government that deems it fit to add regulations to protect you from food poisoning instead of others dying of malnutrition.... They could as well regulate how much is available.

a reply to: Terpene

Defending it? Hardly.

I hate overregulation. I was not aware that providing an explanation constituted an approval

a reply to: ketsuko

Jesus is a Capitalist and God's has made the atheistic communist serve others to serve themselves and they simply can't stand this.

Selfish, greedy... lazy, wouldn't last very long in a native hypothetical community let alone the many failed communes they have attempted.

They simply can make it work without God.

originally posted by: ketsuko
It has already been pointed out that Christ taught in terms of personal property. If the expectation is a society absent this, his teachings would cease to have cultural meaning and relevance.

Are you actually saying that people in the Soviet Union didn't know what private property was, because they government didn't allow it?... Strange way of seeing things. Then, Christ spoke about each person's individual salvation, not about the salvation of society as a whole. Remember, not many will make it to heaven ("NARROW IS THE GATE"). Your argument here is non sequitur.

originally posted by: ketsuko
It has also been pointed out that several prominent Biblical men, Godly men, were also either wealthy in their own right, made wealthy by God, or even saved by Christ without being required to surrender all their wealth.

So Matthew 19:21, the way Jesus lived as described in acts, and the fact of Jesus explaining (to all his followers) that selling all their goods and giving it all to the needed was the way to be perfect, was all written down in the bible in vain, "just because", it didn't mean a thing?... So the way to be a good Christian is to don't pay attention to what Jesus said, but interpreting whatever you want by reading things in the Old Testament? Yeez... that's a great way to cheat the commandments friend! Easy ticket to heaven!

originally posted by: ketsuko
Additionally, Christ had to live a perfect life u der the Law which would have required Him to make offerings. If you have nothing of your own, you have nothing to offer and cannot be spotless.

Jesus is GOD, for Christians. He was already perfect. He came down to earth, in human form, to teach and show humans how to be perfect themselves and achieve salvation. Then, why would you assume that his followers had nothing to offer? Only dispossessed people would follow Jesus?... And, even in the case that someone had actually nothing, that person would be already accomplishing that particular commandment, so there is nothing wrong there.

originally posted by: Butterfinger

It sums up this entire shot show of a thread quite nicely.

I disagree, a few people have directly commented to the OP's points and in those cases the OP and supporters ignore those posts, so I don't know what the OP is looking for other than to wide brush some personal viewpoint and push it as truth without really injecting any further dialog past the same OP lines over and over.

As example the OP posted..

And Jesus said: “If you want to be perfect, go and sell all your possessions and give the money to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.” (Matthew 19:21)

What the OP failed to mention or reply to is this passage was Jesus talking to just one rich man that put his wealth before God and asked him for advice in what was he missing in a life he saw as perfection with God, and so the OP just wide brushed it as if it was Jesus telling the world what to do. Kind of changes the whole context leaving out

Jesus said unto him, If thou wouldest be perfect

The reality is the OP is making ridiculous claims based on his non-Christian beliefs as to how Christians should live. I also don't think the OP even believes their own words and is just trying to stir up something along the lines of just trolling. As I said already, people just want to build a logic loop to get people stuck in, then they can snort laugh their way to suggesting religion is stupid or something along those lines.

Here is the OP's logic loop in a nutshell... Jesus says a true Christian must give up all wealth, personal items, property etc to be one with God, so any Christian that doesn't do that is failing...

OK great, move along...

a reply to: ltrz2025

Jesus had to live a perfect life in order to be the lamb of God and that means fulfilling Mosaic Law which requires offerings.

The only reason He was able to conquer death and shoulder the sins of the world is because He was spotless Himself. This was foreshadowed in the account of Abraham, both with the patriarch being willing sacrifice his precious only son and in God sending a perfect, spotless lamb to save Isaac at the last second.

originally posted by: Xtrozero
A few people have directly commented to the OP's points and in those cases the OP and supporters ignore those posts, so I don't know what the OP is looking for other than to wide brush some personal viewpoint and push it as truth without really injecting any further dialog past the same OP lines over and over.

THIS IS A LIE. Everybody is coming almost always with the same questions, which I'm answering over and over. I answered the point you make to four or five people already, at least. Sorry if I cannot answer 400 times the same freaking question. I'm not an octopus.

originally posted by: Xtrozero
What the OP failed to mention or replay to is this passage was Jesus talking to just one rich man that put his wealth before God and asked him for advice in what was he missing in a life he saw as perfection with God, and so the OP just wide brushed it as if it was Jesus telling the world what to do. Kind of changes the whole context leaving out

It's true that in Matthew 19:21, Jesus is talking to a rich man. But it is also true that, after speaking to the rich man, Jesus turns around and tells his followers that THIS COMMANDMENT IS TO EVERYBODY who wanted eternal life, to which everyone act shocked and scared. Here is the extended version, Matthew 19:21-30:

21 Jesus answered, “If you want to be perfect, then go and sell all that you own. Give the money to the poor, and you will have riches in heaven. Then come and follow me!”

22 But when the young man heard Jesus tell him to give away his money, he was sad. He didn’t want to do this, because he was very rich. So he left.

23 Then Jesus said to his followers, “The truth is, it will be very hard for a rich person to enter God’s kingdom. 24 Yes, I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to enter God’s kingdom."

25 The followers were amazed to hear this. They asked, “Then who can be saved?”

26 Jesus looked at them and said, “This is something that people cannot do. But God can do anything.”

27 Peter said to him, “We left everything we had and followed you. So what will we have?”

28 Jesus said to them, “When the time of the new world comes, the Son of Man will sit on his great and glorious throne. And I can promise that you who followed me will sit on twelve thrones, and you will judge the twelve tribes of Israel. 29 Everyone who has left houses, brothers, sisters, father, mother, children, or farms to follow me will get much more than they left. And they will have eternal life. 30 Many people who are first now will be last in the future. And many who are last now will be first in the future.

ADDITIONALLY:
You are also deciding to DENY the fact that, as described in the passages in Acts, Jesus and his followers lived THAT VERY SAME WAY as he preaches in Matthew 19:21. Which goes to show that this commandment wasn't only for that "rich man" he was talking to, but for EVERYBODY that followed him and were looking to be perfect (go to heaven).


P.S.: Read again Matthew 19:29. Not only Jesus is asking his followers to dispose of all their personal properties, he is also asking them to abandon their own families. For the 100th time, I'm not saying I agree with this or not. I'm simply copy pasting Jesus' words. You do with it what you deem best. Not my problem.

a reply to: ltrz2025

Communism is God's will...

So surrender everything to the State?

Sounds like a plan, I wonder how many times people have been fooled by this?

Communism is Atheism.

a reply to: iamthevirus

Who said anything about giving anything to any State?.... Clearly you have not been reading the thread, or looking to use real arguments. You are clearly trying to lead this to an "off-topic" discussion, of political nature.

The post is NOT about 20th century communism, but about what Jesus commanded and the way he lived. If you are a Christian and your intention is to find excuses to not follow that, fine by me, but that's not the point of this thread. Fully agree that 20th century communism was abhorrant, but that wasn't the aim here.

a reply to: ltrz2025

Dead bodies line the path to your utopia.

Communism is a religion made for Atheists.

originally posted by: ltrz2025
The post is NOT about 20th century communism, but about what Jesus.

Could have fooled me.

I say we jump right to the endgame here...

Trumpism 101

a reply to: ltrz2025

I guess I was like you when I was younger I thought that religions had a lot to answer for
but its not really religion that is the problem its just humanity in general
we are a very strange species, religions and ideologies just seem to bring out the worst in us
even when the religions and ideologies are supposed to make us better.

Ahh well

I just think that you are perhaps pissing in the wind

a reply to: ltrz2025

isnt that what religion is all about though gods authority over all of his creations
and religious scholars having their religious doctrines adhered to they mostly all have the same conclusions
as in they tow the line just like politicians that adhere to one or the other philosophy

communism just like all the other isms is all bunch of bull#
its authority over other humans its all just a method of control
and I dont agree with it at all , even religions are all just authority and control

yeh i dont believe in antagonising others over their beliefs let them believe what they like
if they dont follow their religious doctrines to the letter thats on them
who am I to judge ?

I will however be annoyed when these people ideologues or religious types start harming others
or imposing their will on others as you say "weaponising" their religion or their ideology and forcing others to their will

life is full of contradictions and hypocrisy
but I think we cant cast modern standards or philosophy backwards in time onto people who hadnt thought of it yet
it doesnt make sense

just because they shared some of the principles doesnt make them communist
thats not how human knowledge works , as I said again we build on what came before us
im pretty sure thats how we rewrite history for those who seek to manipulate it.
Im sure its been done before by these ideologies.

a reply to: sapien82

Anything one practices is a religion if it has theistic underpinnings or not.

Capitalism, practicing an instrument or a daily routine walk is a religion.

Religion and Theism are separate entities.

One can be Theistic without a practice based in that belief.

It's a very Protestant perspective from the first secular nation in the world, the USA.

Only faith is required and this is where the Americans diverged from the Catholic perspective.

a reply to: ketsuko

The free market, that values profit over life, the one that drives all sociopaths into leading positions, that system i meant, with it's political cronies putting up a show for the sheep...

a reply to: Xtrozero

The OP's thread title is a bastardization of words and the English language is what it is.

Shill trolling at its finest.

/bravo

originally posted by: Terpene
a reply to: ketsuko

The free market, that values profit over life, the one that drives all sociopaths into leading positions, that system i meant, with it's political cronies putting up a show for the sheep...

∆Terpenes lessons in grooming 101