CBDC incoming, FEDNOW to launch in July

originally posted by: tanstaafl
It is also just 6%, which is a whole lot less than 90%. I'm mildly curious what you might consider 'slow'... but since you're just gaslighting...

Slow as in not in broad adoption after many years.

Stating it like that without acknowledging that ApplePay had extraordinarily monumental advantages as compared to Lightning with the combination of:

Not my fault you brought them into the conversation and are now shifting the goal posts. They have practically no market traction which is the same as it was for the past several years.

Preferred? It is the only option. That is the nature of a monopoly.

MPoC isn't a monopoly nor is it exclusive to Apple. Your lack of knowledge on the subject is pretty sad.

originally posted by: tanstaafl
Simply pointing out the obvious advantages that one had is not shifting anything, it is being factual.

You, on the other hand, are engaging in blatant gaslighting by pretending that comparisons of the two could be even remotely on par without consideration given to the massive advantages that ApplePay had.

You wouldn't be 'gaslit' if you didn't make the flawed initial comparison, no one but you compared Apple to that crap Lightning platform. Not my problem you didn't realize it was a bad idea.

Yep... and time will tell.

Yup. Any day now. Any day.

Wow, you're right, my bad, I misspoke, but I'm sure you'll make a much bigger deal than it was, seeing as I was actually talking about the underlying platform.

The 'underlying platform'? What are you on about? PCI SSC standards are open to everyone, it isn't a monopoly.

With Apple's manufacturing now based in China, anything to do with Apple will have the CPP in the background. I don't see the developers of ApplyPay saying no when the CPP wants a copy of its data. When it comes to digital surveillance technology China is ahead of the pack.

One chance to stop it all going this way is how different nations are building different systems for its local environment. At the end though its all going to be pretty similar stuff, having the capacity and capability to make any sense of it is a huge job. AI bots will do a lot of the grunt work.

Then we got all kinds of asinine regulations and conditions just a push button away. Still have a lot of nations not involved yet, on the sidelines watching for now.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus
a reply to: tanstaafl
You wouldn't be 'gaslit' if you didn't make the flawed initial comparison,

You're confused. In order for me to be 'gaslit', I'd have had to fall for your attempts at gaslighting. Obviously I didn't.

no one but you compared Apple to that crap Lightning platform.

True at least in this thread...

Not my problem you didn't realize it was a bad idea.

It only appears to be a bad idea to those who refuse to acknowledge reality.

The reality is, it was actually very significant specifically because of the massive advantages enjoyed by ApplePay.

Yup. Any day now. Any day.

At least there is actually a far greater chance it will actually happen than a realization of the hopes and dreams of some that there will be criminal convictions for the bad orange man, although it does look like said people have a little dose of hopium headed their way on Tuesday due to impending charges and even an arrest next week (Trump himself said Tuesday). This should be very entertaining watching their efforts backfire spectacularly as they always do, as this will likely result in Trump winning in a massive landslide next year.

The 'underlying platform'? What are you on about? PCI SSC standards are open to everyone, it isn't a monopoly.

Ok, wow, ya really got me there. I guess I could have used a better word, maybe instead of underlying 'platform', I should have said underlying 'regulatory scheme' - although that may not be the best word/term either.

Regardless, since the nature of this new standard means it will in essence become a defacto monopoly by virtue of the fact that virtually if not all payment systems will be required to adhere to it by all commercial entities (banks and card brands/providers) in order to engage in the processing of commercial payments.

originally posted by: tanstaafl
Ok, wow, ya really got me there. I guess I could have used a better word, maybe instead of underlying 'platform', I should have said underlying 'regulatory scheme' - although that may not be the best word/term either.

You used the wrong word because you have no idea what you're talking about.

Regardless, since the nature of this new standard means it will in essence become a defacto monopoly by virtue of the fact that virtually if not all payment systems will be required to adhere to it by all commercial entities (banks and card brands/providers) in order to engage in the processing of commercial payments.

Well, I guess if crap Lightning wanted to participate in the standard they could have opted to provide feedback awhile back when it was requested. But it would appear that they don't want people using MPoC with their niche platform since they didn't provide feedback.

Additionally, this standard has nothing to do monopolizing anything. No one is forced to use a mobile device to pay, it's optional. Commerical payments can be processed in various other ways besides MPoC.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus
a reply to: tanstaafl
You used the wrong word because you have no idea what you're talking about.

You are of course free to believe whater makes you feel better about yourself, even when it is wrong.

Have fun...

Well, I guess if crap Lightning wanted to participate in the standard they could have opted to provide feedback awhile back when it was requested.

Who is 'they', who requested feedback from this mysterious 'they', and why should 'they' provide feedback for some 100% proprietary protocol that they have zero control over?

But it would appear that they don't want people using MPoC with their niche platform since they didn't provide feedback.

What does the fact that 'they' didn't provide any feedback have to do with whether or not totally independent people choose to implement said protocol in some future product?

Additionally, this standard has nothing to do monopolizing anything.

If one wants to play, one must implement said protocol - that, my friend, is a monopoly.

No one is forced to use a mobile device to pay, it's optional.

True...

Commerical payments can be processed in various other ways besides MPoC.

From a phone or using a card?

Of course there is cash, and I've even encountered a few stores whose owners were knowledgeable about gold and silver and would let me pay in silver at parity, but what other methods of payment are available that are not subject to the monopoly that is the PCI standards for processing electronic payments?

a reply to: tanstaafl

If you are paying for things in gold/silver you're an idiot. Use the toilet paper fiat currency, the US dollar.

With the injection of 500 billion dollars into the busted banks, inflation will be "sticky". Try to buy some I-bonds at treasury direct, you can't. The buy portion of the website has been down for a week.

This video has an explenation of how it will be rolled out.

originally posted by: litterbaux
a reply to: tanstaafl

If you are paying for things in gold/silver you're an idiot.

It was over 15 years ago, and I basically was just having some fun and using it as an opportunity to educate people, but... why would it make me an idiot? Do tell...

Use the toilet paper fiat currency, the US dollar.

I usually do.

As for the end of crypto, the fact is, 99.9+% of 'crypto' are just pump-n-dump unregistered security #coins, and once the coming regulations hit - probably soon after the Ripple/XRP case is resolved - they will pretty much all go the way of the Dodo... all but bitcoin of course, since it actually is the only one that doesn't even remotely fit the definition of a security, and it is the only one that the federal regulators have specifically stated as such.

originally posted by: tanstaafl
Who is 'they', who requested feedback from this mysterious 'they', and why should 'they' provide feedback for some 100% proprietary protocol that they have zero control over?

PCI, try to follow along, I've mentioned them several times. And it's not 'proprietary' nor do the repsondee's have 'zero control'. FFS, you have absolutely no idea how any of this functions.

What does the fact that 'they' didn't provide any feedback have to do with whether or not totally independent people choose to implement said protocol in some future product?

Because it is a mutually agreed upon industry standard. It doesn't form in a vacuum. Again, holy **** you are ignorant of how this works.

If one wants to play, one must implement said protocol - that, my friend, is a monopoly.

Like whining that you don't like something when you had an opportunity to influence that something but chose not to.

From a phone or using a card?

I already explained what MPoC was in this thread, try reading and paying attention.

Of course there is cash, and I've even encountered a few stores whose owners were knowledgeable about gold and silver and would let me pay in silver at parity, but what other methods of payment are available that are not subject to the monopoly that is the PCI standards for processing electronic payments?

PCI isn't a monopoly and even someone from niche and little used platforms like Lightning can join.

originally posted by: JinMI
a reply to: tanstaafl

Except its not truly decentralized.

There are well over 17,000 nodes running now, and growing very fast. Anyone can run a node (like bitcoin, it is permissionless).

By all means, explain and prove your claim that the Lightning Network is not trul decentralized.

and its still not instant.

The only thing we've ever had that was truly instant was cash. Again, every single electronic payment method in existence has a settlement layer and takes more time that the transaction itself.

If it works reliably, then why not use the new fangled Fednow system?

Because of who owns it, and the fact that you must get their permission?

Im not arguing against you BTW, Im arguing that BTC surely isnt the end all, be all.

And again, I'm not and never have said it is perfect either... it is just the best by far that we have ever come up with that actually has the potential to free us from the tyranny of the banksters.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus
a reply to: tanstaafl

6% of trillions is a **** ton of transactions and dollars.

Oh...

And that 6.1% was not of 'trillions', it was 6.1% of actual iPhone Users who had Apple Pay installed on their phones when making purchases of Apple products in Apple Stores.

Here, from the fine link:

"Seven years post-launch, new PYMNTS data shows that 93.9% of consumers with Apple Pay activated on their iPhones do not use it in-store to pay for purchases.

That means only 6.1% do.

That finding is based on PYMNTS’ national study of 3,671 U.S. consumers conducted between Aug. 3-10, 2021."

See the difference?

originally posted by: tanstaafl
And that 6.1% was not of 'trillions', it was 6.1% of actual iPhone Users who had Apple Pay installed on their phones when making purchases of Apple products in Apple Stores.

I gave the Apple Pay transaction dollars previously, it's way more than crap Lightning and Scamcoin.

6% of Apple users, at 1.2billion active iPhones, produces transactions totaling trillions.

New research claims that Apple Pay has surpassed Mastercard in the dollar value of transactions annually, with its $6 trillion total meaning it's over halfway to equaling Visa.

Since its launch in 2013, Apple Pay has seen rising adoption by users, banks, and retailers, until in 2021 it accounted for 92% of all mobile wallet debit transactions.

Like I said, you don't know what you're talking about when it comes to this subject.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: tanstaafl
And that 6.1% was not of 'trillions', it was 6.1% of actual iPhone Users who had Apple Pay installed on their phones when making purchases of Apple products in Apple Stores.

I gave the Apple Pay transaction dollars previously, it's way more than crap Lightning and Scamcoin.

6% of Apple users, at 1.2billion active iPhones, produces transactions totaling trillions.

You are ignoring the fact that the 6% figure was for in-store (Apple Store) purchases by people who had Apple Pay installed on their Apple iPhones.

If they weren't using it in the Apple Store, I doubt they were using it at Starbucks.

I'll ignore the rest of your irrelevant apple-pay worship since we are talking about only the first 7 years, not how it stands today.

originally posted by: [post=26957749]tanstaafl[/post
You are ignoring the fact that the 6% figure was for in-store (Apple Store) purchases by people who had Apple Pay installed on their Apple iPhones.

LOL. OMG. AHAHAHAHA.

$6trillion is $6trillion whether it's used in an Apple Store or elsewhere and if you think all, or most of it, was from Apple Store purchases you're even more ignorant about the subject than I initially suspected.

Apple just farted out more money while I made this post than Lighting will do in a month.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: [post=26957749]tanstaafl[/post
You are ignoring the fact that the 6% figure was for in-store (Apple Store) purchases by people who had Apple Pay installed on their Apple iPhones.

$6trillion is $6trillion whether it's used in an Apple Store or elsewhere

6% of in store sales has nothing whatsoever to do with ANY dollar figure. None. Nada.

Again, the stat is, only 6% of iPhone Users who had Apple Pay instaklled on their phones used it (Apple Pay) for in-store purchases.

Where does the 6 trillion number come from?

You're either just not reading, not reading with comprehension, a liar, a moron, or just gaslighting. I'm pretty sure I know which one, but I'll let you pick - so, which is it?

originally posted by: tanstaafl
Where does the 6 trillion number come from?

You're either just not reading, not reading with comprehension, a liar, a moron, or just gaslighting. I'm pretty sure I know which one, but I'll let you pick - so, which is it?

I'd say it's you who isn't paying attention to the sources. The 6% number is their market share and the $6trillion is the amount processed annually. So, being that you needed it explained - AGAIN - which of the above are you? I'm pretty sure I know which ones.

Anyone got an XML or spreadsheet file of where this $6T is going? $1B will run one average metropolitan hospital for a year, so $6T sounds like it would cover the western medical system on the global scale.

With these kind of dollars floating around Apple, When accounting for the mining, refinement, production and development of the global telecommunications network, maybe...

a reply to: kwakakev

It's payment transactions, they move between P2B, P2P and B2B. Visa does double this, it doesn't mean it's all sitting in a bank somewhere.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

it doesn't mean it's all sitting in a bank somewhere.

Yes. Turnover is not the same as profit.