CBDC incoming, FEDNOW to launch in July

originally posted by: tanstaafl

originally posted by: ScepticScot
a reply to: tanstaafl

Happy to be shown to be wrong but as far as I am aware Starbucks does not accept bitcoin, at least not directly.

You have to transfer it to local currency via an app.

You can google it as easy as me - search on "pay for my starbucks with bitcoin"...

And yes, just like if you want to use ApplePay - which still pays in dollars/cents - you have to pay with an app, but it is just as simple, easy and painless as ApplePay, and it pays from your bitcoin.

Not really the same. If I pay with a banking app it pays for something priced in a currency with that currency.

This requires the conversion of bitcoin into local currency. Starbucks in particular also seems to require this is done in advance onto the Starbucks app.

If that is out of date happy to be shown otherwise.

originally posted by: JinMI
a reply to: tanstaafl

Which is not settled on the ledger immediately. Due to TPS and blocksize.

Unless you can show where transactions are failing/rolling back for some reason, this is irrelevant. And it is irrelevant. Because transactions are not failing/rolling back. It works, it costs fractions of a penny per transaction. It is getting better every day.

Might as well be the same as FEDNow

FedNow is just a payment processing system. I honestly don't know enough about either to tell you if they are analogous or not...

and still doesnt address the centralization issue of energy and mining.

Centralization issue? What does the energy and mining aspects have to do with centralization?

The bitcoin network is completely decentralized. If you disagree... then spit it out man!

As for the energy requirements, the bitcoin networks electricity usage is actually not only not a problem, but it can actually 'save the world' according to Kevin O'Leary.

originally posted by: ScepticScot
a reply to: tanstaafl
Not really the same. If I pay with a banking app it pays for something priced in a currency with that currency.

It is no different than ApplePay.

This requires the conversion of bitcoin into local currency. Starbucks in particular also seems to require this is done in advance onto the Starbucks app.

That is one way. There are others.

originally posted by: tanstaafl

originally posted by: ScepticScot
a reply to: tanstaafl
Not really the same. If I pay with a banking app it pays for something priced in a currency with that currency.

It is no different than ApplePay.

This requires the conversion of bitcoin into local currency. Starbucks in particular also seems to require this is done in advance onto the Starbucks app.

That is one way. There are others.

Your link seems to confirm what I said.

Starbucks – Top-up Your Loyalty Card to Buy Starbucks Coffee
Next up on our list of where to spend Bitcoin is Starbucks. Now, we should note that the world’s largest coffee chain – which now stands at nearly 35,000 stores globally, does not directly accept Bitcoin at its cash registers. You can, however, use Bitcoin to top up a Bakkt account.

Starbucks takes Bakkt, they do not take Lightning.

Scot beat me to it.

originally posted by: tanstaafl

originally posted by: ScepticScot
a reply to: tanstaafl
Not really the same. If I pay with a banking app it pays for something priced in a currency with that currency.

It is no different than ApplePay.

This requires the conversion of bitcoin into local currency. Starbucks in particular also seems to require this is done in advance onto the Starbucks app.

That is one way. There are others.

Sorry missed the first part.

I'm an android guy but as far as I am aware apple pay works the same as the Google version and links to a bank account.

Not the same as converting crypto to local currency.

originally posted by: tanstaafl
It is no different than ApplePay.

The fact that you think ApplePay and some niche Bitcoin Layer 2 are analogous shows you don't understand the payments industry in the slightest.

originally posted by: ScepticScot
a reply to: tanstaafl/quote]
You can quibble all you want, but can you or can you not pay for your Starbucks with your bitcoin?

Whether or not you have to use an app is irrelevant. If you want to use Apple Pay, you have to use an App.

Regardless, it is getting better and better and it is only a matter of time before they start accepting lightning directly.

I'm looking forward to Elon's launch of his new 'PayPal Killer' X payment processing system...

edit on 16-3-2023 by tanstaafl because: (no reason given)

Well no you can convert bitcoin to buy starbucks.

It may be an easy process but that's still different from paying directly

a reply to: tanstaafl

Unless you can show where transactions are failing/rolling back for some reason, this is irrelevant. And it is irrelevant. Because transactions are not failing/rolling back. It works, it costs fractions of a penny per transaction. It is getting better every day.

Pass/failing of transactions isnt a logical bar. Now how about thouroghput wit volume? We know how high transaction fees get with volume. Far outpacing the cost of the transaction.

FedNow is just a payment processing system. I honestly don't know enough about either to tell you if they are analogous or not...

On paper they are similar when you apply L2 schema. Big difference is the actual asset applied to each of course.

Centralization issue? What does the energy and mining aspects have to do with centralization?

The bitcoin network is completely decentralized. If you disagree... then spit it out man!

What does energy and mining have to do with the centralization of the entire infrastrucure? Simple, ASICS are produced where? Rely on whos power grid?

It is not completely decentralized based on the above. However its not really a matter of simple binary, is/is not. It is more decentralized than any fiat for example but not decentralized enough to not be manipulated by a countries power grid, govt policy or production of the required hardware.

a reply to: tanstaafl

It doesn't matter. It works. It is lightning fast. It is extremely reliable. It is extremely resilient. There may be some minor issues. It is constantly being upgraded and made better. It is being used thousands of times a day if not more.

But the whole point of crypto is eliminating as much counter party risk as possible.

The same goes for interacting with exchanges like Coinbase more than an on-ramp and off ramp. Not your keys, not your wallet.

a reply to: JinMI

Another thing it won't be able to do is integrate with ISO:18013 mDL standards for age verified purchases which many retailers are going to move to for POS transactions in the very near future.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

POS = point of sale

POS = proof of stake.


Acronym conflict!!!

DIDs are going to be a thing, either with a crypto or a government solution. Im really not fond of the idea, nevertheless, its being pushed.

a reply to: JinMI

Sorry, Point of Sale.

MPOC (Mobile Payments on Cots (Consumer off the Shelf)) devices combined with ISO:20022 and 18013 is the future. It means your payment device, most likely your phone, will be able to complete instant payments combined with age verification (when needed) that go on to settle instantly in the scheme for the merchant/financial institution. There is a demand for this, not some minor platform who's monthly transactions barely amount to Visa's entire fraud budget.

originally posted by: ScepticScot
a reply to: tanstaafl
I'm an android guy but as far as I am aware apple pay works the same as the Google version and links to a bank account.

Not the same as converting crypto to local currency.

What matters is what matters.

Can someone use bitcoin to buy Starbucks? The answer is yes, and it is very easy.

If you want to complain about the fact that the bitcoin has to be converted first because Starbucks doesn't yet take bitcoin payment directly, that is fine, and true, but irrelevant to whether or not you can a) walk into Starbucks, b) buy some of their disgusting waaaaay overpriced sludge they call coffee, and c) walk out, having spent some sats.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

There is a demand for this, not some minor platform who's monthly transactions barely amount to Visa's entire fraud budget.

There always has been demand for it.

That was a big selling point for cryto before all the hype trains started...and ran off a cliff.

Along with actually owning the asset of exchange versus a "token" representative of an asset which is just digitalized fiat.

originally posted by: JinMI
a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

POS = point of sale

POS = proof of stake.

Ummm... you forgot the biggest one...

POS - piece of #

a reply to: tanstaafl

Well, if you can make the argument for piece of chit being in the ISO requirements, Im all ears!

originally posted by: JinMI
There always has been demand for it.

The demand is not even in the same stratosphere as conventional payments. None of our clients, and they are all Fortune 500's, want to discuss crypto as part of a requirement for their desired future state. They do not see it as a game changer.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

Of course.

Its a matter of perspective and need.

Amazon doesnt really care when my hundred bucks actually clears.

Now my plumber, he definately cares.