Well look at what we have here! COVID was most likely a lab leak WSJ

a reply to: carewemust

Clearly in a nation like China, which fears absolutely zero pushback for any policy it implements, relying on their 'good will' to conduct business is a problem. China could easily turn the TESLA plant there into a tragic undertaking with little to no effort.

I suppose it is a matter of relying on the supposition that Mr. Musk values that business operation more than he values appearing to be their 'plaything.' But then, appearances can be deceiving, and China is not actually beyond needing 'good business' operating in their country... but no doubt they have plans within plans, as the Master Herbert wrote, and I wouldn't be too surprised if a "new" Chinese EV business arose from their midst...

a reply to: Asmodeus3

I've always proposed it was a lab engineered bio weapon. Years before you even signed up here, I was advancing that suspicion.

I also believe

Anti-vax hysteria is a CCP disinformation plot

What better way to increase the effect of their bioweapon than to convince people the remedy is unsafe when it is in fact safe?

It also distracts from their lab engineered bio weapon. Why focus on the meat when you can obsess over the fluff? Anti-vax is mass hysteria, period.

If you push unproven anti-vax nonsense, you are helping the CCP. Anti-vax is the redherring of our age, and so-far the greatest hoax of the century.

originally posted by: JBurns
a reply to: Asmodeus3

I've always proposed it was a lab engineered bio weapon. Years before you even signed up here, I was advancing that suspicion.

I also believe

Anti-vax hysteria is a CCP disinformation plot

What better way to increase the effect of their bioweapon than to convince people the remedy is unsafe when it is in fact safe?

It also distracts from their lab engineered bio weapon. Why focus on the meat when you can obsess over the fluff? Anti-vax is mass hysteria, period.

If you push unproven anti-vax nonsense, you are helping the CCP. Anti-vax is the redherring of our age, and so-far the greatest hoax of the century.

I will ask you again the same question:

What makes you think the vaccine junk was any good when the system itself supported the natural origin of the virus, claims about herd immunity, natural immunity, PCR testing, saving granny..., fatality rates, and safe and effective vaccines. Everything the system claimed was wrong.

The safe and effective was part of the narrative just as the natural origin of the virus was part of the narrative.

Everything that has emanated from the establishment was quite wrong. They argued that the virus has a natural origin. It looks like it doesn't have a natural origin. They argued about herd immunity. Which is impossible to achieve. They argued about saving granny which was preposterous. They were trying to give the idea that SARS-CoV-2 has a similar fatality rate to the Spanish flu. Completely wrong as we know.

They are still arguing that their junk products are safe and effective. Why most other claims were wrong and this one is correct??

a reply to: Asmodeus3

when the system itself supported the natural origin of the virus, claims about herd immunity, natural immunity, PCR testing, saving granny..., fatality rates, and safe and effective vaccines. Everything the system claimed was wrong.

I don't think Pfizer took a stance one way or the other. Can you prove your claim otherwise? I doubt Pfizer was ever in a position to develop intelligence and figure out where it came from. Nor was it their job. Their job was to create a vaccine, which they did miraculously in record time under Trump's WARP SPEED program.

Trump should've been slamming his miracle vaccine home in the 2020 campaign. But all these misinformed types somehow turned it into an attack. And yet, anti-vaxxers still think they aren't just being used as a tool for the CCP agenda. Some. How.

Again, natural immunity is not valid, as it only occurs after you are infected. Natural immunity doesn't protect you from the flu, the common cold or any number of deadly diseases. Smallpox, Ebola, Hanta, Lassa, what have you. Vaccines are far superior to anything "natural"

originally posted by: JBurns
a reply to: Asmodeus3

when the system itself supported the natural origin of the virus, claims about herd immunity, natural immunity, PCR testing, saving granny..., fatality rates, and safe and effective vaccines. Everything the system claimed was wrong.

I don't think Pfizer took a stance one way or the other. Can you prove your claim otherwise? I doubt Pfizer was ever in a position to develop intelligence and figure out where it came from. Nor was it their job. Their job was to create a vaccine, which they did miraculously in record time under Trump's WARP SPEED program.

Trump should've been slamming his miracle vaccine home in the 2020 campaign. But all these misinformed types somehow turned it into an attack. And yet, anti-vaxxers still think they aren't just being used as a tool for the CCP agenda. Some. How.

Again, natural immunity is not valid, as it only occurs after you are infected. Natural immunity doesn't protect you from the flu, the common cold or any number of deadly diseases. Smallpox, Ebola, Hanta, Lassa, what have you. Vaccines are far superior to anything "natural"

You seem to ignore the literature big time for once more. I have nothing to prove. The onus is to those who have made all these claims that turned out to be wrong. Your understanding about natural immunity is very poor and in line with what you have claimed in other threads.

Let me remind you what these claims are

You claimed 13 million doses have been administered worldwide and then you went on a safari, going from one mistake to another. Insisting you were correct and doubting common sense, i e that 5.5 billion people have been vaccinated in the world.

You tried to find the rate of adverse reactions by dividing the reported cases registered in Florida by the total number of shots given worldwide without even thinking how wrong it this. And then you came up with the wrong conclusions

You completely disregarded the number of asymptomatic individuals and those who have minor symptoms I e a very large number of cases and you ended up with a fatality rate of 1% saying that 1 in 103 who get infected die.... Another very wrong claim because you used the case fatality rate and not the infection fatality rate.

You arguments about the safety and effectiveness of the vaccines are equally wrong and have no merits. It's a reflection of the fact you are engaging in vaccine apologetics and denialism of reality.

originally posted by: Maximus0111
This morning I looked and didn't see this posted. This article was put up this morning 2/26/2023 at 7:00 AM. Finally, they are saying that COVID was most likely caused by a lab leak in China.

Lab Leak Most Likely Origin of COVID

It is almost impossible to know the truth here because there is no transparency with Chinese officials/science labs nor was the initial investigation open to outside investigators. The reasoning behind why it is thought to be a lab leak is credible but so is the fact that we are all now global and people are travelling anywhere and everywhere. The fact is we still don't have proof of anything.

originally posted by: JBurns

Again, natural immunity is not valid, as it only occurs after you are infected. Natural immunity doesn't protect you from the flu, the common cold or any number of deadly diseases. Smallpox, Ebola, Hanta, Lassa, what have you. Vaccines are far superior to anything "natural"

Really, stop and think about this for a moment. If infection doesn't result in immunity, how will a vaccine that works by mimicking an actual infection result in immunity? You realise this is the very basis by which vaccines work?

It's commonly known that infection in general results in far broader immunity than vaccines. It allows for a full immune response (the mucosa, upper airways etc).

It might be fair enough to take a vaccine (a real one that actually works) to prevent infection, but not if you've already been infected.

Listen to little teflon Tony telling it like it is (or was - pre covid).

Q. "Should she get the flu vaccine (after getting over the flu)?

A. "Well no, she doesn't need it because the most potent vaccination is getting infected yourself."

originally posted by: Maxmars
a reply to: carewemust

Clearly in a nation like China, which fears absolutely zero pushback for any policy it implements, relying on their 'good will' to conduct business is a problem. China could easily turn the TESLA plant there into a tragic undertaking with little to no effort.

I suppose it is a matter of relying on the supposition that Mr. Musk values that business operation more than he values appearing to be their 'plaything.' But then, appearances can be deceiving, and China is not actually beyond needing 'good business' operating in their country... but no doubt they have plans within plans, as the Master Herbert wrote, and I wouldn't be too surprised if a "new" Chinese EV business arose from their midst...

They've already got EV's and the way they progress, will be better than Tesla soon (if not already). They're basically still a prototype being sold as a finished product anyway.

Tesla makes money via a carbon credits scam, not on EV's.

originally posted by: Maxmars
a reply to: carewemust

Clearly in a nation like China, which fears absolutely zero pushback for any policy it implements, relying on their 'good will' to conduct business is a problem. China could easily turn the TESLA plant there into a tragic undertaking with little to no effort.

I suppose it is a matter of relying on the supposition that Mr. Musk values that business operation more than he values appearing to be their 'plaything.' But then, appearances can be deceiving, and China is not actually beyond needing 'good business' operating in their country... but no doubt they have plans within plans, as the Master Herbert wrote, and I wouldn't be too surprised if a "new" Chinese EV business arose from their midst...

Since China steals so much technology, it wouldn't surprise me either, if they forced Elon out of the country and started an Electric Vehicle car line that emulates Teslas.

It's pretty bold though for China to tell Elon that if he keeps describing how Covid-19 and the Wuhan Lab and Anthony Fauci are all affiliated, the country will shut him down.

a reply to: Maximus0111

originally posted by: Quintilian

originally posted by: JBurns

Again, natural immunity is not valid, as it only occurs after you are infected. Natural immunity doesn't protect you from the flu, the common cold or any number of deadly diseases. Smallpox, Ebola, Hanta, Lassa, what have you. Vaccines are far superior to anything "natural"

Really, stop and think about this for a moment. If infection doesn't result in immunity, how will a vaccine that works by mimicking an actual infection result in immunity? You realise this is the very basis by which vaccines work?

It's commonly known that infection in general results in far broader immunity than vaccines. It allows for a full immune response (the mucosa, upper airways etc).

It might be fair enough to take a vaccine (a real one that actually works) to prevent infection, but not if you've already been infected.

Listen to little teflon Tony telling it like it is (or was - pre covid).

Q. "Should she get the flu vaccine (after getting over the flu)?

A. "Well no, she doesn't need it because the most potent vaccination is getting infected yourself."

I don't think the member understands what a vaccine is and what it does. It looks like the lack of basic information creates a magic world where such medical treatment becomes a magic elixir...

Earlier he has claimed 13 million doses have been given worldwide which is completely false. Then he tried to estimate the fatality rate coming up with a number 1 in 103 which is completely false as he didn't take into account the number of asymptomatic individuals and those with minor symptoms that never get tested. He then tried to find the rate of adverse reactions by dividing the reported cases registered in Florida by the total number of shots given worldwide (!) without even thinking how wrong it this.

a reply to: Asmodeus3
I misread completely.... ignore my reply

Where Covid-19 virus originated from is still a mystery and definitely not a biological weapon:

No intelligence agency has said they believe the coronavirus that caused COVID-19 was released intentionally. The unclassified 2021 summary was clear on this point, saying: “We judge the virus was not developed as a biological weapon.”

www.pbs.org...

FLASHBACK September 14, 2021

China’s most famous defector to America warned US intelligence agencies of coronavirus in 2019

David Asher, the State Department official who spearheaded a task force into the origins of COVID-19, said the opportunity presented by Wei’s warning was like “stopping 9/11 before it happened.” Asher said the US government had other crucial pieces of early-warning evidence in late 2019 but it failed to connect the dots. He said the US government first had intelligence about Wuhan Institute of Virology workers falling sick with COVID-like symptoms in late 2019 – a year before he discovered it during his investigation into the origins of the virus for the State Department. By then, 1.7 million people worldwide had died from COVID-19.

Asher said he was shocked when he found out “we actually could have had foreknowledge” of the coronavirus.

“We could have known in November of 2019, that there was a disaster occurring inside Wuhan — inside their most important biological facilities related to coronavirus research,” he said.

originally posted by: quintessentone
Where Covid-19 virus originated from is still a mystery and definitely not a biological weapon:

No intelligence agency has said they believe the coronavirus that caused COVID-19 was released intentionally. The unclassified 2021 summary was clear on this point, saying: “We judge the virus was not developed as a biological weapon.”

www.pbs.org...

Yeah, you can rely on that. US intelligence wouldn't lie. Nor would the people interpreting said intelligence lol.

It's obviously a result of US bioweapons research. No matter how it got loose. You really buy that claptrap about them modifying viruses like this for the good of humanity ?

originally posted by: Quintilian

originally posted by: quintessentone
Where Covid-19 virus originated from is still a mystery and definitely not a biological weapon:

No intelligence agency has said they believe the coronavirus that caused COVID-19 was released intentionally. The unclassified 2021 summary was clear on this point, saying: “We judge the virus was not developed as a biological weapon.”

www.pbs.org...

Yeah, you can rely on that. US intelligence wouldn't lie. Nor would the people interpreting said intelligence lol.

It's obviously a result of US bioweapons research. No matter how it got loose. You really buy that claptrap about them modifying viruses like this for the good of humanity ?

If you do the research you will find that it wasn't just the US government working in labs on pathogens.

originally posted by: quintessentone
Where Covid-19 virus originated from is still a mystery and definitely not a biological weapon:

No intelligence agency has said they believe the coronavirus that caused COVID-19 was released intentionally. The unclassified 2021 summary was clear on this point, saying: “We judge the virus was not developed as a biological weapon.”

www.pbs.org...

Because of? The link you have provided?? So what if no intelligence agency has said anything yet?? They are neither reliable nor credible so to rely on them or the link isn't that wise.

From all information around and from the thread I have made someone ago featuring one of the very few publications on this matter, it looks like SARS-CoV-2 is not a result of zoonosis.

You see that I use SARS-CoV-2 and not Covid-19.

You all know that it was detected in the waste water of Barcelona in March of 2019, right?

www.ub.edu...

originally posted by: HanSolo791
a reply to: Maximus0111

They must be desperate if they are using this card.

a reply to: Maximus0111

There is not evidence to support this. Its a deepstate propaganda narrative. My guess is now it probably came from a lab in Ukraine and was made to look like it came from China. Why the sudden narrative change.. Has it got anything to do with China deciding to help Ukraine..