I know that everyday I wake up, there will NOT be mass casualties from the vaccine

a reply to: fringeofthefringe

Can you imagine 3 different companies developing a new vaccine in a year? I'm not talking specifically about the Covid vaccine, I'm just talking in general.

This was my big red flag in this whole ordeal. Vaccines take years to develop because there are clinical phase trials that need to be carried out. There are 4 phases and each of them usually take 1 year plus. But 3 companies somehow did the same research in a year? How is this possible? It's not.

a reply to: quintessentone

Thanks quintessentone, this is a perfect summary. We are learning, pulling in new data and drawing new conclusions from it. I'm open to the general thesis of the anti-vax claims, I am also open to the MFG/gov claims although suspect the reality falls somewhere in between

I love being wrong. Its a chance to fix a mistake. I was already wrong once, vehemently opposing the vaccines initially. But no evidence ever came to light (to my knowledge) showing any sort of serious risk from the shots so I changed my own mind to match the new data

I taught my girls to never be so proud that you refuse to own up to a mistake. Instead of fixing it we repeat it. I am doing my best not to be guilty of that here. And despite the hard feelings toward me by a few folks here I am genuinely interested in debating this topic

This is ATS, we are frankly better than that. I know I can do better, it was probably wrong of me to approach the topic so defiantly. I just didn't know how many more "clot shot clock ticking timebomb" threads I could look at without seeing hard evidence. I let that frustration get the better of me

a reply to: litterbaux

Litter, respectfully, how much time does bureaucracy and needlessly slow processes add to these? If something was directed by the chief executive to put all focus on developing, testing and evaluating the products I can see it being achievable.

How many total candidates were there? 3 were approved, but how many were denied?

originally posted by: JBurns
a reply to: underpass61

The virus, for all groups, is more deadly and dangerous than the vaccine. If your risk of serious illness from COVID is 0.01% that is still a higher risk than serious side effects from the vaccine.

You are the one lying. But, to yourself. About these vaccines.

These are again figures that have derived from nowhere but they have come out of your head as usual. The claims you are making are unsubstantiated and you make the wrong conclusions based on the wrong information and the wrong interpretation of matters.

But I believe you said

We don't have to defend anything. Our's is the default position supported by mainstream professionals and 80% or more of the population. You have to change the status-quo, via credible facts and figures, which you have totally failed at doing.

The status quo is unchanged. You aren't actually convincing anyone of anything other than the frailty and fragility of anti-vax true believers.

So as it seems in the absence of evidence you want your unsubstantiated claims to be taken as Gospel.

It has been pointed out to you that your estimations and numbers are completely incorrect. I think it's time to realise this.

You claimed 13 million doses have been administered worldwide and then you went on a safari from one mistake to another. Insisting you were correct and doubting common sense, i e that 5.5 billion people have been vaccinated in the world.

You tried to find the rate of adverse reactions by dividing the reported cases registered in Florida by the total number of shots given worldwide (!) without even thinking how wrong it this. And then you came up with the wrong conclusions...

You completely disregarded the number of asymptomatic individuals and those who have minor symptoms I e a very large number of cases and you ended up with a fatality rate of 1% saying that 1 in 103 who get infected die.... Another very wrong claim because you used the case fatality rate and not the infection fatality rate.

originally posted by: JBurns
a reply to: Asmodeus3

A law firm that exists solely to prosecute alleged cases of damage from the vaccine. This worse than ambulance chasers-ambulance chasers don't build a following and convince thousands of people to act against their own interests.

From the substack to the continual totally unsubstantiated claims, those seeking a paycheck forgot one thing: you will not be given a vaccine without your expressed consent. You are required to read an entire form stating the potential side effects, risks and such. You won't be given a shot unless you specifically acknowledge the risks.

Own up to your decisions. Do not blame others.

You seem not to be able to realise that Pfizer has engaged again in the usual practices of fraud and criminal deception as well as falsification of data. But I understand you are engaging in vaccine apologetics and defending of the pharmaceuticals.

It may bother you but it is worth seeing what the US District Court in Texas said and the conclusions made.

The US District Court of Texas ordered FDA to release documents of clinical trials of the Covid-19 shots after getting sued by attorneys at Siri & Glimstad. The documents revealed Pfizer classifying adverse events as non-related to the vaccine

So Pfizer for once more deceived the public and engaged in deception and fraud. Nothing new here. Presenting and classifying the adverse effects from the mRNA products as non-related to the vaccine. It might be climate change after all...

Your other arguments are not correct either as there was no informed consent. Rather than intimidation, pressure, coercion, and even threats from dismissal by employers in case you wouldn't get inject with the junk by Pfizer and Moderna.

a reply to: JBurns

You say you lined to be wrong. That's great as you have been wrong about everything you have said si far. Every single number, statistic, and analysis you made has been wrong. And every conclusion of yours has been wrong.

You claimed 13 million doses have been administered worldwide and then you went on a safari, going from one mistake to another. Insisting you were correct and doubting common sense, i e that 5.5 billion people have been vaccinated in the world.

You tried to find the rate of adverse reactions by dividing the reported cases registered in Florida by the total number of shots given worldwide without even thinking how wrong it this. And then you came up with the wrong conclusions

You completely disregarded the number of asymptomatic individuals and those who have minor symptoms I e a very large number of cases and you ended up with a fatality rate of 1% saying that 1 in 103 who get infected die.... Another very wrong claim because you used the case fatality rate and not the infection fatality rate.

You arguments about the safety and effectiveness of the vaccines are equally wrong and have no merits. It's a reflection of the fact you are engaging in vaccine apologetics and denialism of reality.

a reply to: JBurns

Good thread - still waiting to be turned into a magnet, get vaccine AIDS or for the predicted 60 million dead from the vaccine to occur last year.

There's only the under 12 age group where the risk of adverse vaccine effects outweighs benefit in protection to mitigate covid risk (apart from those with co-morbidities).

It's a strange cult of scaremongering where people are having to falsely attribute deaths to the vaccine and taking scientific papers out of context/only reading abstract to keep up the nonsense or deflect from all the other predictions that failed and have no scientiic basis.

originally posted by: JBurns
a reply to: putnam6

To have natural immunity one must first be infected by the virus. The danger of the virus vastly outweighs the danger of the vaccine.

Natural immunity will not prevent infection unless you are first infected.

You don't have to take it and you don't have to approve of the vaccination schedule.

And you are right they were rushed -a few years ago now. Those interceding years have provided ample time to rule out all of the initial claims made by the hardcore anti-vaxxers.

Among noteable early anti-vaxxers are Nancy Pelosi and Kamala Harris.

First of all, can you explain to me again how natural immunity works? so you are telling me if I got COVID I wouldn't need to be vaccinated? WOW, I'm even more for getting vaccinated now. Natural immunity hmmm who knew, never heard those 2 words in my whole life, and it certainly hasn't been mentioned on ATS these last 2 years or I would have remembered it I'm sure

And you're right we didn't have lockdowns and mandates and there was no pressure at all the get vaccinated and boosted at any time throughout COVID.

You are also correct, 2 plus years is certainly plenty of time to determine the long-term effects of the vaccines why I can think of any pharmaceutical that has been recalled after 2 years of use.

Thank you for this enlightening discussion, Ive withstood getting vaccinated since the beginning, but gosh darn it, your down-to-earth explanations and easy demeanor. I think I'll get vaxxed on Monday, though I don't know how I made it this far

I am technically in an at-risk category, right now in my age group almost 2 whole persons (1.8 actually) out of 100,000 are still being hospitalized for COVID. Oh dear those are terrible odds now that I think about it. In my county, 210 people a day are diagnosed with COVID in a county of 1.06 million people it's only a matter of time before COVID comes to a knocking on my door

I usually think clearer than this, perhaps I have COVID brain fog or even Long COVID, so I guess I need to first be tested for COVID, right? Did they ever find a reliable test?

Then if I have COVID I need to wait 6 months since I have natural immunity and then get the shot? Then I need to get boosted every 6 months?

so many questions

originally posted by: quintessentone

originally posted by: BiffTannen

originally posted by: olaru12
When a new more virulent virus hits the streets, the anti vaxers will be standing in line for the jab.
Covid was just the beginning.....

COVID is the mechanism
Vax is the objective

We are under attack from the virus life on Earth and Earth is very unhealthy.

It's amazing homo sapiens have been around for 100,000 years, with all kinds of bugs, viruses, and diseases.

Now when was the first vaccine developed? I know they were exposing people to smallpox as early as the 1400s but that's not really a vaccine. Then we had cowpox which prevented smallpox circa 1796.

Yep in these 620 years, medical science has figured it all out.

originally posted by: putnam6

originally posted by: quintessentone

originally posted by: BiffTannen

originally posted by: olaru12
When a new more virulent virus hits the streets, the anti vaxers will be standing in line for the jab.
Covid was just the beginning.....

COVID is the mechanism
Vax is the objective

We are under attack from the virus life on Earth and Earth is very unhealthy.

It's amazing homo sapiens have been around for 100,000 years, with all kinds of bugs, viruses, and diseases.

Now when was the first vaccine developed? I know they were exposing people to smallpox as early as the 1400s but that's not really a vaccine. Then we had cowpox which prevented smallpox circa 1796.

Yep in these 620 years, medical science has figured it all out.

The member you have been replying to has brought the virus Armageddon into consideration believing that the human race will probably disappear if we are hit with a 'deadly virus'. He has portrayed SARS-CoV-2 as deadly and he has claimed that if you are lucky you will survive, not taking into account that the global average infection fatality rate before any medical interventions and natural immunity was around 0.15% estimated by John Ioannidis from Stanford i.e giving a survival rate of 99.85%

After three years of exposure the infection fatality rate is as low of even lower than that of the flu.

In addition the never has made a range of arguments that have no basis in anything we know. Claimed that Covid-19 is a virus that has come from SARS-CoV-2. Then upgraded the claim that Covid-19 is a chimeric virus coming from SARS-CoV-2 and another unspecified pathogen....

originally posted by: Peeple
To me the issue is that ordinary vaccines immunize you against the disease, it's undisputed fact these vaccines don't do that.
Instead the claim is it leads to milder symptoms, which doesn't necessarily have to be a result of the vaccine, since that could also be the normal development through the mutations of the virus.
So I would argue that it's possible with or without vaccine we would be exactly where we're at now, except without having spent billions and no adverse reactions to the vaccine at all.

As per usual quick, efficient, and completely accurate.

Didn't WHO or the CDC fiddle with the previous official definition of a vaccine, making it where the COVID-19 treatment trinity fit the new vaccine definition?

originally posted by: bastion
a reply to: JBurns

Good thread - still waiting to be turned into a magnet, get vaccine AIDS or for the predicted 60 million dead from the vaccine to occur last year.

There's only the under 12 age group where the risk of adverse vaccine effects outweighs benefit in protection to mitigate covid risk (apart from those with co-morbidities).

It's a strange cult of scaremongering where people are having to falsely attribute deaths to the vaccine and taking scientific papers out of context/only reading abstract to keep up the nonsense or deflect from all the other predictions that failed and have no scientiic basis.

The other thread was even better as the OP engaged and is still engaging in this thread with a range of debunked arguments.

He claimed 13 million doses have been administered worldwide and then he went on a safari, going from one mistake to another. Insisting he was correct and doubting common sense, i e that 5.5 billion people have been vaccinated in the world.

He then tried to find the rate of adverse reactions by dividing the reported cases registered in Florida by the total number of shots given worldwide without even thinking how wrong it this. And then you came up with the wrong conclusions

He completely disregarded the number of asymptomatic individuals and those who have minor symptoms I e a very large number of cases and you ended up with a fatality rate of 1% saying that 1 in 103 who get infected die.

All arguments, numbers, statistics, and analysis, are completely wrong.

You trying about magnets and 5G is just a big strawman.

I didn't see you commenting by the way on the wide range of these refuted arguments. Or you are selective in your replies as you seem to be... Engaging in vaccine apologetics and defending of the pharmaceuticals...

a reply to: Asmodeus3

Gee whiz another ad hom false accusation about vaccine apologetics and defendng pharma when i've already explained to you my work in exposing bad pharma and working in stats for that field for a decade or so. Qu'elle suprise.

It's not a strawman when claims of magnets, 5G and VAIDS have been promoted and posted on here regularly in the last few years. It's what happened in reality.

I didn't reply to the other thread as I haven't read it and if I had I'd be accused of the usual ad homs of shiling for pharma or posting too much on such threads and being a super duper vaccine apologist and defending of pharma instead of anyone adressing the posts.

originally posted by: Asmodeus3

originally posted by: putnam6

originally posted by: quintessentone

originally posted by: BiffTannen

originally posted by: olaru12
When a new more virulent virus hits the streets, the anti vaxers will be standing in line for the jab.
Covid was just the beginning.....

COVID is the mechanism
Vax is the objective

We are under attack from the virus life on Earth and Earth is very unhealthy.

It's amazing homo sapiens have been around for 100,000 years, with all kinds of bugs, viruses, and diseases.

Now when was the first vaccine developed? I know they were exposing people to smallpox as early as the 1400s but that's not really a vaccine. Then we had cowpox which prevented smallpox circa 1796.

Yep in these 620 years, medical science has figured it all out.

The member you have been replying to has brought the virus Armageddon into consideration believing that the human race will probably disappear if we are hit with a 'deadly virus'. He has portrayed SARS-CoV-2 as deadly and he has claimed that if you are lucky you will survive, not taking into account that the global average infection fatality rate before any medical interventions and natural immunity was around 0.15% estimated by John Ioannidis from Stanford i.e giving a survival rate of 99.85%

After three years of exposure the infection fatality rate is as low of even lower than that of the flu.

In addition the never has made a range of arguments that have no basis in anything we know. Claimed that Covid-19 is a virus that has come from SARS-CoV-2. Then upgraded the claim that Covid-19 is a chimeric virus coming from SARS-CoV-2 and another unspecified pathogen....

Don't get me wrong I'm not anti-vaccine or even anti-COVID vaccine. I am anti mandate on a rushed vaccine that is lethal to less than 3% of those that get COVID.

a reply to: JBurns

I know that everyday I wake up, there will NOT be mass casualties from the vaccine

I guess it depends upon your definition of mass casualties

According to the Violent Crimes Act , a mass killing is defined as a killing with at least three deaths


Mother Jones defines a mass shooting when it results in three or more victims

originally posted by: bastion
a reply to: Asmodeus3

Gee whiz another ad hom false accusation about vaccine apologetics and defendng pharma when i've already explained to you my work in exposing bad pharma and working in stats for that field for a decade or so. Qu'elle suprise.

It's not a strawman when claims of magnets, 5G and VAIDS have been promoted and posted on here regularly in the last few years. It's what happened in reality.

I didn't reply to the other thread as I haven't read it and if I had I'd be accused of the usual ad homs of shiling for pharma or posting too much on such threads and being a super duper vaccine apologist and defending of pharma instead of anyone adressing the posts.

I still think you are engaging in vaccine apologetics and denialism of reality. Do you want to expose big pharma? Is that so? I haven't seen you doing any such thing other than congratulating another who is also engaging in vaccine apologetics and defending of the pharmaceuticals.

You seem to be very selective in your replies. I didn't see any criticisms coming from you in relation to number of false claims made by the OP such as the one described above

He claimed 13 million doses have been administered worldwide and then he went on a safari, going from one mistake to another. Insisting he was correct and doubting common sense, i e that 5.5 billion people have been vaccinated in the world. Which he later changed as it was easy to see with a click of a button the number of vaccinated worldwide.

He then tried to find the rate of adverse reactions by dividing the reported cases registered in Florida by the total number of shots given worldwide without even thinking how wrong it this. And then he came up with the wrong conclusions

He completely disregarded the number of asymptomatic individuals and those who have minor symptoms I e a very large number of cases and you ended up with a fatality rate of 1% saying that 1 in 103 who get infected die.

If you wanted to reply then you should have criticized the flawed arguments but you chose not to for the obvious reasons. The 5G and magnetism are big strawman arguments.

a reply to: putnam6

This must be the most failed vaccine campaign ever.

As it stands, the State of Florida has issued a major health alert in relation to the mRNA products not recommending them initially for the 18-39 age group (males) and now not recommending them for young and healthy people given the amount of harms, deaths, and the massive number of adverse reactions reported through VAERS.

The State of Idaho is trying to criminalise the administration of these products (have a look at my thread if you haven't done so)

The UK is no longer making the mRNA products available for those under the age of 50. We all know why...

And many other countries are thinking on how to go about it as the harms these junk products could cause and have caused are enormous.

It could be that they will have the same fate as the Astrazeneca vaccine which was withdrawn from most countries they have used it, including the UK which is the country of origin of the vaccine, as it harmed and killed a lot of people.

While ever more people are waking up to this overt scam, a certain group never will. At the same time, too many are still stuck in the false left vs right paradigm. Refusing to entertain the possibility of both sides collaborating in the long term elitist game. And around they go, circling the drain. Team sports.

originally posted by: Durden
While ever more people are waking up to this overt scam, a certain group never will. At the same time, too many are still stuck in the false left vs right paradigm. Refusing to entertain the possibility of both sides collaborating in the long term elitist game. And around they go. Team sports.

Does it really matter then? It's not like you or anyone is going to do anything to change it so entertain all you want...

originally posted by: Xtrozero
Does it really matter then? It's not like you or anyone is going to do anything to change it so entertain all you want...

Case in point.