'Violent Scenes' Outside Merseyside Hotel Housing Asylum Seekers

a reply to: ufoorbhunter dont doubt there's a significant portion of society that don't want to work and exploit the benefits system but what about the ones who do. What about greedy employers who take advantage of immigration by redrawing work contracts with terrible pay and conditions so the existing workforce is forced to go elsewhere so they can employ immigrant labour at half the cost. I know that's happened in my locality several times. You should have the right as a citizen to a job with decent pay and conditions, so you can find a place to live, support yourself and raise a family. Many of those immigrants will happily live in cramped conditions, on zero hour contracts and no holiday or sick pay because they're desperate and in a transient position. It's unfair to point to them as an example a British citizen should emulate and expect no more than. It's like going back to the days of the dark satanic mills before the unions worked for decent pay and conditions. It's grossly unfair to say it's because the British are too lazy to work some are but not all, and all the more surprising that it's a trope of the left, who were -at least once upon a time - on the side of the worker and his rights.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: bastion

Take us out or away from the ECHR and the Tories would have a "Stephen Smith" type incident happening every day of the week by my guess.

www.walesonline.co.uk...

no mcDonalds in the uk?

Question...

How is it possible to house "every" migrant who crosses the channel yet its not possible to house the people living rough on the streets?

I watched an interesting video before about NYC homeless solutions. Basically they get a budget each year to "solve" the problem, except if they did solve it then they wouldnt receive the money any more.

a reply to: sarahvital

What the feck are you talking about?

If that's some piss poor attempt at levity, its sadly misplaced.

The Man in question suffered from severe health problems and is now dead.

Denied crucial benefits when they were most needed, and deemed fit for work, despite only weighing just 6 stone.

Let down and failed by the authorities and the system repeatedly.

Seek help would be my advice if you think making cracks like that are in any way funny.

a reply to: fastzombie

You make good points Fastzombie and yes every effort to help genuine cases of folk who want to go out and get a job, pay their taxes, contribute to society should be made. Anyone can get in a mess being a human being on this planet and often it's just bad luck, being born in the wrong place, etc.

Yet.................. There is a section of our population that has effectively gone for the free ride ticket and expects the rest of society to pay for their lifestyles. Fake disabled type for example. Then the partner becomes the carer. Then £60 a day for a 'bath allowandce' assistance. Free cars! Free houses! Reduced council taxes assuming they still pay that one. Loads of benefits for them too, a cash bonanza!

Lots of people go down the benefits route from age 16 and never have any desire to pay their own way in life.

I'm sorry if you don't like it but I'd have them exported to Australia like the good old days, or Ghana etc. If you don't contribute to society and do your own fair share, then why the hell should I be paying my taxes to subsidise this stain on our nation. Give me an immigrant any time who want to make something of their life and rid our state of the work shy locals any day. Something needs to be done for sure their reckoning will come as most financial contributors to this country have had enough.

ETA, regarding the wage suppression you mention, well the biggest crime was the introduction of minimum wage. That regulated an effective national wage across the board. I've met women who were pretty well off and did work as a hobby, they didn't need to work yet did so on a very basic wage below what we'd consider minimum wage, yet they loved it as it got them out of the house and they enjoyed the banter of a work place. The minimum wage finished so many factories off, this group now is kept out of work even when they were willing to work for very little. Their social life suffered for this, their factories were exported to Asia. Higher paid workers too have been modelled into the minimum wage area. You are probably right regarding some employers taking immigrants to reduce the packages offered to locals, yet truth be told and I know this for sure, British youth now no longer want to do an honest days work. I know people who only want Poles, etc as they work hard, don't feel like they are 'lowering themselves' by doing jobs many Brit's turn their snouts up at, will do graft without chatting or looking at their phones every few minutes, know that the foreigners have a decent respect for their boss and very few will pull a fast one and put in an iffy legal claim for white finger, or a bad back and get taken through the legal system. Employers like the immigrants, they do the the job

a reply to: ufoorbhunterI'm not fundamentally disagreeing with what you say, with maybe the exception of minimum wage, outlying examples aside I believe in having some kind of recognition and protection about how much an honest days work should be worth. I've seen enough just in the street I live in that dole wallahs are a thing. We could certainly do with a massive and critical overhaul of how we approach benefits, who's actually entitled to them and for what reason. That would however have the progressive left protesting on principle but....I just get concerned that immigrants do the work Brits are to lazy to do is often employed as a not very critically examined trope to justify immigration per se, or to maybe put the boot in on British society as the more progressively minded are wont to do. I'm personally for immigration but not without realistic and sensible controls in place to offset any negative impacts. That stems from having a healthy self interest as a British citizen, not rooted in foaming racism as some would like to portay it. Like many issues these days, there is an emotional knee jerk reaction to moralise the discussion and frame it as moral left vs the immoral right. Which just hijacks and hope of reasonable discussion. I'm not invested in either wing, they are equally flawed. I prefer a more politically moderate and centrist approach.

a reply to: fastzombie

What's a Dole Wallah?

a reply to: ufoorbhunterSomeone who relyies on benefits and not working as a lifestyle choice.

a reply to: fastzombie

Thanks for the clarification fastzombie

a reply to: Grenade

I grew up in a similar situation, I've seen what turns people around and I've seen what didn't.

The situation is a lot different than the 80s 90s or 00s. Also the handouts of the past never gave a conductive experience to the kids being brought up in a world of dross.

There’s plenty of work out there for those people willing to find it.

There can be. Attitude is everything in the workplace and most "down and out" people carry a crap one. We've discerned that age is just a number when it comes to scroungers and I'm sure that we could come to an agreement that the state of mind alters potentials and outlooks...

So you tell me how idiots are supposed to escape their circumstances when they have never had any kind of scale to compare to?

Since age 17 I’ve never taken a penny from the government and either privately rented or bought my home.

Good for you, genuinely.

I've already mentioned the state of British economics, might be worth looking into subsidies here and who actually gets benefits in the 21st century.

We're on a downward trend when it comes to public assistance being a necessity. Now I'd much prefer opportunity being the way out for people but often enough their eyes are too dull to see. How do you open their eyes?

How were yours?

a reply to: ufoorbhunter

People are people.

What do we do with the immigrants "workshy cocksucking" kids? Trade them for more decent folk too?

I guess I was trying to understand just what you were trying to say.

Yeah anyone with the ability to travel for work are going to find greater chance at prosperity. People travel and people breed and there's always a chance the offspring will be ones you want to trade off.

When it comes down to it do those immigrants hold the same values as you? Or is it all literally down to how much £ they can push out?

I'm not the one judging the variables, I apologise for considering our past conversations and what I perceived as your outlook on topics like this.

a reply to: RAY1990

What do we do with the work shy kids?

Nothing. Ray nothing will change. It's all out of our control. Nothing will change. Lazy people will continue to sit on their arses and immigrants will continue to arrive to do the work the lazy should be doing.

Everything is out of our hands. TPTB control this island. We can do nothing. It's just a question of carrying on working and funding the lazy good for nothing layabouts through our taxes, or joining them and becoming one of them jumping on the gravy train.

Nothing is going to change.

a reply to: gortex

how on earth i wonder,...

in a land where they live on $1 a day,... WITH NO EMPLOYMENT

HOW EVER DID THEY GET $10,000.00 EACH,
TO PAY THEIR SMUGGLERS?

especially those so-called minors, with adult teeth

i cannot even save $10 grand with decent job
to go visit africa

and if WE were paid a living wage , we WOULD HAVE MORE CHILDREN
eliminating the need for unemployable migrants

SO SOMETHING JUST AINT RIGHT

a reply to: ufoorbhunter

The trend is more people will qualify for assistance...

People are dependant on economics, we all need money to eat. Reads funny doesn't it? That's probably because it needn't be true.

But it is.

Just like people's dependence on others, like teachers or youth services when it really begins to go tits up.

What do we do with the work shy kids?

Raise them, ideally into young gentlemen and ladies... One can dream. We could start with the basics though, cheesy lines like "charity starts at home" are true. If we want things to change we're going to have to change.

Stop looking to government to fix every aspect of society because all that happens is a shift of responsibility that doesn't compute over time. Seems people become more dependant whilst becoming confused about the actual issues at hand.

We're raising successive generations of dependant blame shifters. You should know by know I'm always going to ask this question...

Who raised them?

The conundrum of our collective future will be solved in the minds of individuals, not in the houses of parliament, not in Whitehall and certainly not in some weird WEF or occultist meeting.

originally posted by: RAY1990
a reply to: ufoorbhunter


Stop looking to government to fix every aspect of society because all that happens is a shift of responsibility that doesn't compute over time. Seems people become more dependant whilst becoming confused about the actual issues at hand.

We're raising successive generations of dependant blame shifters.

Pretty decent post there Ray and if you go into politics you'll get my vote for sure

I came across an opinion recently that while a little extreme and conspiratorial, I'm starting to wonder about. The benefits system is being used as a means of demographic control, that is the welfare system is like the devouring mother archetype keeping their offspring afraid, unconfident and dependent, keep them culturally helpless so they're easily molded and manipulated. Very much a neo-marxist approach. Mixed feelings about it, because what's the endgame in all this? A workless society? But I have to wonder.