Roswell and Unsolved Mysteries

BTW, Ophi, the Roswell doc on Histories Greatest Mysteries, was 6 hours long. Three two-hour shows.

Does anyone have a Direct link to a full FREE pdf copy of the famous Twining Memo?

Thanks in advance

👽

a reply to: Ophiuchus1

www.nicap.org...


It's archived on Wayback Machine just in case.

originally posted by: Ectoplasm8
a reply to: mirageman
Ahhhhhhh yes Unsolved Mysteries.
I chatted with Kevin Randle and led him to my thread. Lost cause... still won't give in. But then again, there's lots of $$$ to be made. I've given up the ghost on believers.

Your thread was by far the most accomplished, intelligent and concise explanation of the entire farce - it should be stapled to the top of the UFO/Aliens forum for any waves of clueless newbies joining ATS - of whom I include myself some 5 years ago. But, of course, ufology RELIES on constant newbie replenishment.


As for Randle...

originally posted by: ConfusedBrit

originally posted by: Ectoplasm8
a reply to: mirageman
Ahhhhhhh yes Unsolved Mysteries.
I chatted with Kevin Randle and led him to my thread. Lost cause... still won't give in. But then again, there's lots of $$$ to be made. I've given up the ghost on believers.

Your thread was by far the most accomplished, intelligent and concise explanation of the entire farce - it should be stapled to the top of the UFO/Aliens forum for any waves of clueless newbies joining ATS - of whom I include myself some 5 years ago. But, of course, ufology RELIES on constant newbie replenishment.

Thanks! I thoroughly researched this case. It really comes down to several simple common sense base line observations. The Army Air Force JUST so happens to have Project Mogul launching balloon trains out of Alamogordo NM 80 miles away to the south of the supposed crash site in early June/July 1947 being made up of (SURPRISE!!) thin foil-like material, small wooden members, etc?
What an amazing coincidence!
- The exact same time frame (June/July 1947)
- The exact same area (Alamogordo, NM 90 miles)
- Method of transport (balloons w/ prevailing winds to the north)
- The exact same materials as Mogul research/service flights (foil, sticks, rubber, eyelets...)
All facts that can be backed up and proven. So where are the facts that can be backed up and proven this was an alien spacecraft??? We've only had 75+ years. Right Kevin Randle? Time to put on your thinking cap and apply some critical thinking skills.

But isn't the earlier Dennis interview from 1990?
www.youtube.com...

Roswell has a lot of second-hand and third-hand me down---yeah, my uncle saw aliens, my father saw aliens—that kind of “ proof.”

Also, many of the military officers close to Colonel Blanchard and Marcel in their golden years claimed they either saw aliens or heard of them or the saucer.

The main two claimants Dennis the embalmer, who claimed a nurse told him about the autopsy, and the number one storyteller Frank Kaufman have been debunked by even Kevin Randle, one of the original ufologists who first interviewed them and was originally somewhat credulous of their fairy tales.

So, it does have witnesses, and a few of them claimed they either saw or were told about aliens, the crash, and a craft, but closely analyzing it---just all doesn’t match up. And if one wants to get a handle on the various conflicting, matching, or way-out stories, a good amount of research has to be done.

Overall, after 40 years, memories get clouded, faded, and it’s difficult to impossible to get the truth after so many years of the event, which started to be looked at closely in the years 1978 to 1992 by many ufologists--30 to 40 years after the event.

But if Roswell wasn’t an alien ufo event, then many people have lied. And something strange has influenced these military men to concoct such fairytales, many of them changing their stories over the years.

originally posted by: Malacath
But isn't the earlier Dennis interview from 1990?
www.youtube.com...

I am not entirely sure what point you are trying to make here. Care to clarify?

originally posted by: chunder
a reply to: Ophiuchus1

Fair enough, I'm busy for a few days but will come back to it.

Ok, whilst there are dozens if the secret black project card is played it negates the bulk of them.

However, here are a few.

Fibre optic cable offers no advantages to copper for short distance comms except speed (the weight difference is negligible here, plus you then also have the weight of converters each end - which aside from the manufacturing of the cable is another technological development), there was no equipment on the balloon trains that needed to communicate or required that speed.

It also doesn't like being bent, difficult to achieve in storage / launching etc.

Classified records now available do not have any reference to any development of fibre optic technology than mainstream records depict, anywhere, let alone specifically related to the Mogul programme.

In all the debris descriptions there is nothing that sounds like fibre optic cable.

I come across something very interesting from two sources: the new Kevin Randle book about Roswell and an older Roswell book by Karl Pflock published in 2001.


Background info:

The Mogul Balloon solution advocated by the government and one after long research I agree with is the most likely scenario is challenged by Randle based primarily on this obscure information:

Supposedly the particular balloon from Project Mogul that is deemed the most likely balloon from that project to have been the one scattered all across the Brazel Ranch mistaken for a crashed saucer is from what they call Flight 4 on June 4, 1947

Very simply, Randle disputes this based on one fact. A participant in the Mogul Project kept a diary, one Dr. Crayr.

In his diary, according to Randle, the diary says Dr. Crayr writes Flight 4 was canceled on June 4, 1947, because of bad weather therefore, it couldn’t have been that balloon on the Brazel ranch.

Randle gives no source for his information.

Now, going to the 2001 book by the late Kark Pflock, I went to it and searched for this diary, and sure enough, the very quote from the diary is in his book; Randle doesn’t quote from…

It's contradictory.

“June 4 Wed. Out on Tularosa range and fired charges between 00 and 06 am. No balloon flight on account of clouds. Flew regular sonobuoy mike up in cluster of balloons and had good luck on receiver on ground but poor on plane.”

Pflock claims this is a double insertion at different times of what he did on the 4th. That’s why it reflects two different actions: a cancellation and an eventual flight.

The Mogul director Moore confirms this himself by saying the flight was delayed but began later. Randle calls him deceptive, but the diary does say the flight went off eventually; therefore, according to them, flight 4 did take off that morning after the weather cleared.

Randle claims Moore is fibbing, but Pflock's book backs up Moore.

Randle doesn’t mention this as a source, says the flight was canceled, and offers no source for that, although he does refer to Plock’s book often. Pflock does mention the contradiction and even provides a contradictory quote from the diary in his book.

I respect Randle and don't mean to be critical of him, and I think overall, he has written a good and well-researched book, but why didn’t he provide a source for the statement about a cancellation?

I understand that research sometimes overlooks things.

a reply to: peaceinoutz

Randles is generally quite objective. Is it possible he overlooked the fine details? Or do you suspect he's clinging onto the hope that Roswell really was an ET event and downplaying the Mogul balloon angle by omitting inconvenient facts?

I still find it incredible despite contemporaneous news reports of the debris consisting of "sticks, paper, foil and rubber" that somehow this can be construed as proof of an ET spaceship. Well, except by superficial dismissals of it all as part of a cover-up. But that is contradicted by the Twining memo.

One book I haven't read is Backstory: Roswell: Exclusive Untold Disclosures About the 1994 Air Force Roswell Report Told By The Man Who Led The Inquiry. Which, like the Roswell Report in the 90s was written by a man who was Richard Doty's boss!!! He also declared the MJ12 documents bogus. Something Monsieur Vallee has recently revealed was the work of this guy.

a reply to: mirageman


I respect and think Randle is a credible and objective ufo researcher. That’s why I wrote

“I respect Randle and don't mean to be critical of him, and I think overall, he has written a good and well-researched book, but why didn’t he provide a source for the statement about a cancellation?”

And I understand the volumes of research; some things can get lost, missed, or forgotten about. But on the other hand, this is crucial evidence, one way or the other, that can debunk Mogul or support it.

Was he downplaying this to debunk Mogul? Maybe. But he can claim that’s how he interpreted it. My question is whether he did downplay by not giving a source of this diary entry.

As for his take on it now and before, despite his book exposing Kaufman, Glenn Denis, and Ragsdale as liars and many other doubtful claims in Roswell, he still believes overall it was an alien ufo event.
I didn’t expect him to change his views.

Mainly he believes the weight of the evidence related by military individuals and the debris leans towards an alien ufo event. Maybe stories like Col Haut’s tale that he saw dead aliens. And he lends a lot of weight to Gen Exon's statements.

BTW, he debunks MJ12 and has exposed some researchers on that.

One more thing. Interestingly, Haut was the person who recommended both Kaufman and Dennis should be talked out by ufo researchers.

Thanks for the links.

Randle also rejects the June 4th flight (if there was one) on the basis that it then took a month before Brazel reported it, yet he would have passed the spot daily. There is also the question of how long material such as that would stay relatively local to the crash site considering the topography and weather conditions i.e. it would have been blown around and scattered out of sight.

You pays your money....

a reply to: chunder

Here is the thread on ATS that deals with Project Mogul.
www.abovetopsecret.com...