If kids can’t get a break on college loans NEITHER should Pension plans

originally posted by: DontTreadOnMe
a reply to: Edumakated

Truth be told, I think Social Security [retired] and Social Security Disability should be two separate pots of money.
And it would be nice if raiding SS was no longer allowed.

I wish I could have invested my pension individually.
Pretty damn sure I could have done a lot better with my own financial adviser.

I agree. Social security should not be able to be reallocated to other spending. The truth is that there is no money in social security now. It all IOUs. Disability should be it's own separate thing.

Another issue is that the actuary tables are off because people are living much longer. Social security worked in the beginning because most people died before they could really drain the coffers. Now it is common place to live to be 80+. It simply isn't setup for people to draw on for 20+ years relative to their contributions.

I am unclear on how this became a debate about Social Security, but the idea of taxpayers funding debt imposed after the commitment was made seems relevant.

Social Security was budgetary. There were never millions (and billions) of dollars in existence when the commitment was made... It was theorized as being leveraged against an income tax allotment to provide for the future of those contributing. It was a win-win for the banking community because it engendered more debt (we borrow the whole amount.)

Problem is, as with any bank related 'investment' now that the time is coming when massive payouts must happen as was planned all along the bank resist payment (just like insurance company's do, imagine that.) None of this was a surprise - don't let their apologists fool you. The failure was not in the Social Security commitment, it was in trusting the political class to abide by the commitment and not exploit it for partisan gains.

The only difficulty is that the 'political' class found reasons to comingle the "funds" with other debt obligations. Social Security was supposed to be sacrosanct. It was a "contract" with the taxpayers. They mismanaged it... I wonder which lobbyists were involved in the dismantling of that promise... and do the politicians even care, as they decide what to spend next (and which sponsors should get to exploit the expense.)

99% of unions are worth nothing, all they do is increase dues, spending tons on politics, price themselves out of work and waste pension money.

This should not happen and should be struck down in the courts or it should go through the house and let people stand on their beliefs.

a reply to: Irishhaf

It's a "right of assembly" kind of thing. People join unions and support them. The Union exists only because it has members. There are no unions of one.

I would have thought that union members are the final word in matters of union profiteering, corruption, and abuse... but most unions keep moving ahead as they have all along.

I think unions only exist because so many employers are abusive, exploitative, and have so much power of the employees that they engendered it. As long as employers believe that people should be "grateful" for employment, this behavior will continue. As long as it does, unions have a place and will keep forming.

(Why is it easier to employ people overseas in sweat houses and death shops? Maybe because they ARE grateful for any employment... very grateful.)

Pension plans are iearned income and not investments. Not paying a pension is theft. Someone need to be in jail.

a reply to: Maxmars

People are in unions because they sell what a union used to be not what they are now.

I was in one for a while, till I started paying attention to what they actually did for me (nothing), then they agreed to a dress code change without giving us a chance to voice our thoughts, and they spent copious amounts of money on causes and politicians I am against.

I did say 99% for example BNSF pension is fully funded and they cant touch it, so some are still useful and do help the workers most dont. (UAW, airline pilot strikes in the 80s) as two big examples.

originally posted by: Irishhaf
a reply to: Maxmars

People are in unions because they sell what a union used to be not what they are now.

I blame imagery proposed and propagated by the media, but that would be another thread.

originally posted by: JAGStorm

All the same things said about the College loan forgiveness can be said for this.

-I don’t benefit from this
-I didn’t choose to work here
-My state isn’t responsible
-It is their problem if their fund was responsible
-I didn’t vote for this
-Pensioners should have known this was a possibility and planned better and not put all their eggs in one basket
-Pensioners should have been more savvy with their finances and have seen this has happened to other retirement plans.
-If there is a problem with the plan/financials the pensioners should take it up with the program and not expect Americans to BAIL them out.
-This isn’t a problem that happened overnight, it was predicted and could have been prevented


See how that works? But it doesn’t work that way. When it comes to some people they get “rescued” when it comes to others, you’re just out of luck.

I’m old enough to see the game. I’m old enough to know the whole college loan forgiveness was a probably a giant sham to get young people into even more debt to be debt slaves for the rest of their lives. Nothing is FREE, remember that. The only way you can escape this is to not play the game!

Don't confuse pensions with IRA's. Pensions are managed by the state or federal government and they are responsible for keeping the pension system running. Pensioners don't get to decide how the pension is managed and there are no investment decisions that pensioners get to make. It's just a paycheck for being old. As a social safety net there is no vote to be made and all the comparisons you are drawing are invalid.

People who take out a loan are responsible for paying it back. It's a contract. Student loans in particular are even more rigidly enforced because they require a second signature from a parent or guardian who is also responsible for paying back the loan if the student fails to do so.

The pension system on the other hand is funded by working age taxpayers. We pay into it our entire lives and expect it to be there when we retire.

Forget apples to oranges you're comparing apples to rocket ships.

This isn't just about rising debt it's also about inflationary bubbles.

Higher education in the USA should not cost as much as it currently does. That people go into debt FOR LIFE just to get a piece of paper that gives them a chance at a decent job is asinine to the extreme. What needs to happen is we collectively need to stop going to college.

As soon as we stop taking out loans and stop paying these ridiculous prices, the bubble will pop and reforms will follow.

The same needs to happen to healthcare, housing, and the auto industry just to name a few.

The USA is the land of ponzi schemes. It's about damn time the whole house of cards came crashing down.