If kids can’t get a break on college loans NEITHER should Pension plans

www.illinoispolicy.org...

BIDEN PROMISES NEARLY $36 BILLION FOR NATIONAL PENSION BAILOUTS

The Biden administration promised nearly $36 billion to stabilize pension plans for Teamsters nationwide after forecasts predicted the system’s default by 2026. Union members would have seen their retirement benefits slashed by 60% if the system defaulted.

The proposed “hold harmless” pension reform developed by the Illinois Policy Institute would tie all pension cost-of-living adjustments to inflation rather than a fixed rate of annual growth, saving more than $50 billion by 2045. It would also increase required government contributions to fund 100% of promised pensions rather than the current 90% target.

All the same things said about the College loan forgiveness can be said for this.

-I don’t benefit from this
-I didn’t choose to work here
-My state isn’t responsible
-It is their problem if their fund was responsible
-I didn’t vote for this
-Pensioners should have known this was a possibility and planned better and not put all their eggs in one basket
-Pensioners should have been more savvy with their finances and have seen this has happened to other retirement plans.
-If there is a problem with the plan/financials the pensioners should take it up with the program and not expect Americans to BAIL them out.
-This isn’t a problem that happened overnight, it was predicted and could have been prevented


See how that works? But it doesn’t work that way. When it comes to some people they get “rescued” when it comes to others, you’re just out of luck.

I’m old enough to see the game. I’m old enough to know the whole college loan forgiveness was a probably a giant sham to get young people into even more debt to be debt slaves for the rest of their lives. Nothing is FREE, remember that. The only way you can escape this is to not play the game!

If it were me, NOBODY would be getting bailed out, not the Banks, not the College Students, not the Pensioners.
We are rewarding irresponsibility over and over in this country and wonder why we have such problems and division. This is not a liberal thing either, I’ve seen it happen on both side pretty regularly.

IF we ARE going to bail people out, we need to spread that equally, give the young people a bone too. Just my 2 cents.

Pension plans shouldn't get squat. Half the states are broke due to overly generous pension obligations. The plans have been mismanaged.

originally posted by: Edumakated
Pension plans shouldn't get squat. Half the states are broke due to overly generous pension obligations. The plans have been mismanaged.

They were talking about this 15 years ago! You are telling me in 15 years they couldn’t come up with anything?
Crazy!

a reply to: JAGStorm

People have lost a ton of money on their 401ks. Where is their bailout? I see on Twitter that Brandon is saying the unions are the smartest well trained that the U.S. has. The rest o us are just mud to him. That 36 billion is just a start I am thinking.

This is all due to union pension funds being mismanaged, along with the cities being mismanaged. They are/were dipping into pension funds. It reminds me of what was done to social security. Do you think they are going to bail that out? Taking what wasn't theirs to take.

Once again the U.S. taxpayer to the rescue. Using our tax money to buy votes.

originally posted by: JAGStorm
www.illinoispolicy.org...

BIDEN PROMISES NEARLY $36 BILLION FOR NATIONAL PENSION BAILOUTS

The Biden administration promised nearly $36 billion to stabilize pension plans for Teamsters nationwide after forecasts predicted the system’s default by 2026. Union members would have seen their retirement benefits slashed by 60% if the system defaulted.

The proposed “hold harmless” pension reform developed by the Illinois Policy Institute would tie all pension cost-of-living adjustments to inflation rather than a fixed rate of annual growth, saving more than $50 billion by 2045. It would also increase required government contributions to fund 100% of promised pensions rather than the current 90% target.

All the same things said about the College loan forgiveness can be said for this.

-I don’t benefit from this
-I didn’t choose to work here
-My state isn’t responsible
-It is their problem if their fund was responsible
-I didn’t vote for this
-Pensioners should have known this was a possibility and planned better and not put all their eggs in one basket
-Pensioners should have been more savvy with their finances and have seen this has happened to other retirement plans.
-If there is a problem with the plan/financials the pensioners should take it up with the program and not expect Americans to BAIL them out.
-This isn’t a problem that happened overnight, it was predicted and could have been prevented


See how that works? But it doesn’t work that way. When it comes to some people they get “rescued” when it comes to others, you’re just out of luck.

I’m old enough to see the game. I’m old enough to know the whole college loan forgiveness was a probably a giant sham to get young people into even more debt to be debt slaves for the rest of their lives. Nothing is FREE, remember that. The only way you can escape this is to not play the game!

If it were me, NOBODY would be getting bailed out, not the Banks, not the College Students, not the Pensioners.
We are rewarding irresponsibility over and over in this country and wonder why we have such problems and division. This is not a liberal thing either, I’ve seen it happen on both side pretty regularly.

IF we ARE going to bail people out, we need to spread that equally, give the young people a bone too. Just my 2 cents.

Huge difference between a pension that was worked for and a loan we took out on purpose.

If you can't see that I dunno what to tell you -- these are not the same thing at all.

a reply to: SRPrime

They both require a bailout by the U.S. taxpayer.

a reply to: SRPrime

Huge difference between a pension that was worked for and a loan we took out on purpose.

If you can't see that I dunno what to tell you -- these are not the same thing at all.

It becomes all the same when money is taken from me without my permission in order to pay these things.

Bank Bailout
PPP "loans"
Student Debt Forgiveness
Pension Funding...

Heck throw in a fund for starving strippers if you want, if they are taking my tax dollars it is ALL the same thing!

originally posted by: Edumakated
Pension plans shouldn't get squat. Half the states are broke due to overly generous pension obligations. The plans have been mismanaged.

Just a little sidebar,

How the heck can you stand staying in that state?
It pains me to even visit lately. The "fees" costs and all the added taxes remind me very quickly of why
we left.

originally posted by: Edumakated
Pension plans shouldn't get squat. Half the states are broke due to overly generous pension obligations. The plans have been mismanaged.

Agree.

Just like Detroit was left to wither on the vine during the Obama years.
Contentious bankruptcy, mainly to to Detroit being corrupt, mismanaged and not paying their bills.
Detroit came through it though....

originally posted by: SRPrime

originally posted by: JAGStorm
www.illinoispolicy.org...

Huge difference between a pension that was worked for and a loan we took out on purpose.

If you can't see that I dunno what to tell you -- these are not the same thing at all.

Exactly. This isn’t even comparing apples to oranges. It’s like comparing apples to, I don’t know, hammers.

I agree.

The government shouldn't mitigate risks with your collective gamble. They taxpayers shouldn't be on the hook for poor choices or bad luck.

I'll take it a step further and say that Social Security should be made optional. That's easier on the ears than to say "abolish it", even though the system would collapse in a year of it being made optional.

a reply to: eluryh22

Exactly. This isn’t even comparing apples to oranges. It’s like comparing apples to, I don’t know, hammers.

How is it different?
People want money from the government. They want taxpayers from other states to pay regardless if they had anything to do with it or not.
EXACTLY the same.

a reply to: SRPrime

IF the pension plans were not based on the stockmarket I would agree. However with the games that get played with it I disagree. The push for the ESG's for one, nevermind actual performance in the market. We are being forced to pay for the government intervention by that very same government.

The two situations are not comparable, except to the extent that elected and un-elected officials have totally and completely screwed people with their craptastic bureaucratic interference.

What we do in the short-term is just a bandaid. The bigger problem is that we've been turned into a nation of debtors and gamblers, rather than a nation of savers and investors.

Why on earth are we putting all our retirement funds into a risky stock market??? Why would we want those funds at any risk at all???

This shouldn't even be an issue.

originally posted by: hangedman13
a reply to: SRPrime

IF the pension plans were not based on the stockmarket I would agree. However with the games that get played with it I disagree. The push for the ESG's for one, nevermind actual performance in the market. We are being forced to pay for the government intervention by that very same government.

Even with the investment in the stockmarket it would be fine. We all know the problem in Illinois is that they have sticky fingers and over promised to people. Basic math showed it wasn't going to work, they knew this for over a DECADE.
It was their choice to not to do anything. Who are we to bail them out.

There is a lesson from failure. The only lesson we are teaching is that failure gets rewarded.

originally posted by: JAGStorm
a reply to: eluryh22

Exactly. This isn’t even comparing apples to oranges. It’s like comparing apples to, I don’t know, hammers.

How is it different?
People want money from the government. They want taxpayers from other states to pay regardless if they had anything to do with it or not.
EXACTLY the same.

When someone is part of a defined pension plan, they pay into it for x-years. They have little (if any) control over how that is invested. They would get penalized for something essentially 100% out of their control.

Someone taking a loan has complete control over how much to take out, compare different rates at times, and ultimately decide whether or not to go ahead with it. No surprises there.

That’s for starters. Now, if you’re making a general complaint about government exceeding their authority to take from one group and give to another (often arbitrarily), I’d probably agree with you more often than not. However, that is not how you framed the OP.

regardless of how you feel about the difference between the two, the issue is and remains to be, that Biden can't just sign an EO and spend billions of dollars. It has to go through congress. That's why his rich kid loan forgiveness plan didn't work. Well, it did work for Biden, he just wanted to get those midterm votes, but it didn't work for the kids thinking they could spend that loan payment on beer.

a reply to: network dude

regardless of how you feel about the difference between the two, the issue is and remains to be, that Biden can't just sign an EO and spend billions of dollars. It has to go through congress. That's why his rich kid loan forgiveness plan didn't work. Well, it did work for Biden, he just wanted to get those midterm votes, but it didn't work for the kids thinking they could spend that loan payment on beer.

I have a sneaking suspicion that some of those kids acted in haste and probably did things thinking the forgiveness was a done deal. It sucks. My husband and I have taught our kids, it's not done, until the ink is dry.

a reply to: eluryh22

When someone is part of a defined pension plan, they pay into it for x-years. They have little (if any) control over how that is invested. They would get penalized for something essentially 100% out of their control.

They need to take it up with those in control of the pension. They choose to work for that job and depend on that single income for retirement. Your retirement is never 100% out of your control, that is a fact. Diversify. This is going to be a hard lesson for those that want to rely 100% on Social Security in the future.

Someone taking a loan has complete control over how much to take out, compare different rates at times, and ultimately decide whether or not to go ahead with it. No surprises there.

I'll agree with that, at the same time, I feel these systems take advantage of young people and their lack of knowledge of finances.

Now, if you’re making a general complaint about government exceeding their authority to take from one group and give to another (often arbitrarily),
I’d probably agree with you more often than not. However, that is not how you framed the OP.

huh, I said "If it were me, NOBODY would be getting bailed out, not the Banks, not the College Students, not the Pensioners."

a reply to: JAGStorm

While I don't agree that the government should be bailing out a pension plan, these are hardly the same thing.

College students have signed a contract and have agreed to pay back their loans.

Workers have labored for years to earn their pensions.

Huge difference.

No, we should not bail out a pension plan.

No, we should not bail out students who signed a contract.