Forgiving the Unrepentant

a reply to: TDDAgain

It doesn't come from the heart. It comes from the mind, and the mind is something that can be changed, if one has the will to change. You may believe 2+2=5 until logic and reasoning makes truth be known to you.

If anyone has a reason to resent, it would be me, in that my siblings and I grew up in the most hostile environment, created by my parents, and I could have resentment and anger in my heart for them, but I don't. I realized they did the best they knew to do and didn't realize the environment they were causing us to grow up in. Even so, I still love both of my parents.


My father, especially, gave more than sufficient reason to hate him, but I don't.

a reply to: Antisocialist
The mind can be changed but it takes more than simple logic derived from the mind to forgive.

Because if it was like that people incapable of even simple logic would not be capable to forgive at all.

One might construe logic reasons to forgive, that does not say the person is ready to forgive. True forgiveness. There's two sides to this coin.


In other words, you are saying it is just logic to forgive my rapist. I am saying you are wrong. Because it takes more than acknowledging the person is sick or whatever. It actually takes more than that decision. One has to be ready for it and it's not something universally granted because of logic. And I have gone this path and forgiven. That does not mean I do think the person that did it is now okay, friends with me, a better person or someone I would like to hangout with.

There's two sides to this coin.

a reply to: TDDAgain

No, there is not 2 sides to the coin. Years ago, my brother came down to my house and propped his drunk ass up against my highway fence, spewing obscenities, at the top of his lungs, at me for 30 minutes. In his mind, he thought he was justified in doing that and resented the fact that I called the county sheriff and had him arrested.
To this day, he still holds resentment and hatred in his heart for my having him arrested, not realizing that it was his actions that caused his arrest.
For me, I have long forgiven him for what he did that late night and have nothing but empathy for him in knowing he truly does not realize his actions that night were the reasons for his arrest.

And truth be known, sad but true, he has resented me from the day I was born. I am 1 1/2 years younger than him. Sibling Rivalry!

Thing is, because I have forgiven him, his anger and hatred for me is his problem, and his problem only. Not mine.

a reply to: zosimov

Any thoughts on forgiving the unrepentant?

I'm not sure who's job it is to have any real thoughts on that.

Otherwise, in terms of any thoughts I might have on the personal struggles you are having with repentance and forgiveness as expressed above, I think that you had better hang tite on any important decision making before dispensing your special beneficent forgiveness upon the unrepentant (...

Dadgummit! The darn thing ate half my post.

...

a reply to: zosimov

If you can't forgive and forget, forget giving and accept it's how it is?

If people can't own their wrongs then let them, it's almost like they want to own nothing and be happy about it.

If people refuse to do the brain work on rights then why expect them to do so on the wrongs?

There's a strange irony to it all when I think about it. Repentance requires an understanding of the wrongs, victims shouldn't be working out both sides of a conflict on behalf of ignorance. I wonder if the ignorance is based on acceptance anyways...

Forgive yourself for doing their job for them.

I appreciate and have learned from every single response on this thread!

Thanks to everyone your thoughtful contributions and replies.

a reply to: zosimov

This is a very valid point, and especially considering that the nightmare is still in full force for some

One usually wakes up from a nightmare to realize , it was just an induced bad dream .

a reply to: zosimov

I've had a really hard time with all this. Never once did I fear or feel coerced but I felt an insane anger over people choosing the propaganda over humanity and rationale. Especially those close to me for whom there will forever be a gap in my heart. Not that I can't forgive and love them but it isn't the same. I cannot trust them with my heart any more. It just is.

Someone on ATS had it as a tag line "covid wasn't a pandemic, it was an IQ test" or something to that effect) and it really sunk in, after it gave me a good laugh. I came to realize I had done my best with the mind I have and those who chose to persecute us have also done their best with the minds they have.

I'd prefer my mind over theirs any day.

a reply to: Antisocialist

I disagree clearly and we both have different opinions and different experiences.

To this day, he still holds resentment and hatred in his heart for my having him arrested, not realizing that it was his actions that caused his arrest.

But for him it was betrayal, no matter if we both agree he's wrong. His perceived betrayal by you is what he can not forgive. His feeling is that you did him injustice. His heart, not his mind, is what is keeping him from forgiving you that.

This is why you can not say forgiveness is only a logic construct.

a reply to: TDDAgain

Whatever, to each their own.

Well you just brought an example that supports my viewpoint, so yeah, whatever.

And I want to add that forgiving is not only something that is for the receiving part. Forgiving someone is also healing and moving on. And you can not demand both by any means, "because logic".

a reply to: zosimov

Not until they (the government - that you loath) was bought and paid for by Capitalist Authoritarians.

a reply to: FyreByrd

We're talking about current events, not a historical commentary.

So you agree that the common good was the very last thing on the mind of covid policy makers?

“Forgive them Father, they don’t know what they’re doing”

I think this may be more applicable to the Covid debacle. Most pro-vax tyrants actually think they’re on the correct side of history. They’re So subversively convinced of the propaganda that no amount of evidence could change their mind.

If they didn’t idolize scientists and reporters as gods they would know the true God and be able to perceive the lies of the propagandists/lobbyists

How about start a, "I am vengeful, I want them all jailed Club" with like minded people.

"I am vengeful," says Canadian doctor Rodger Hodkinson. "Never forgive. Never forget, I am vengeful, I want punishment to these bastards who hurt people with COVID madness, I want vengeance, I want them all jailed, no forgive & forget"

a reply to: zosimov

I forgive them although tend to avoid being in their company any longer.

It showed me who my real friends are.

I hope they live long and happy lives and get great enjoyment suckling at the tit of government, while i totally shun them.

Have you forgotten the Lord's prayer?

Forgive our tresspasses as we forgive those who trespass against us.

Sounds pretty simple to understand.

a reply to: DISRAELI

a reply to: DeathSlayer
I cover that point in the linked thread;

Some people will answer that question by citing the example of Jesus on the Cross.
They may quote “Today you will be with me in paradise”. But those words were spoken to a man who was clearly repentant; “We are receiving the just reward for our sins” (Luke c23 vv41-43).
They may quote “Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do” (v34).
But that escape clause was available only because it was true. If the authorities had realised exactly what they were doing wrong, they would not have done it, as Paul observes; “None of the [human] rulers of this age understood this; for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory” (1 Corinthians ch2 v8).
I see no reason why it should be applicable to people who know full well what they are doing.

Again, they will quote “Forgive us our debts as we forgive our debtors” (Matthew ch6 v12), and the standard moral that we should forgive others “as he forgives us”.


But this criterion should be applied accurately. Where is it said that God forgives us without at least asking for repentance? In the parable of the “Unforgiving Servant”, it is taken for granted that forgiveness of debt follows on from a request for forgiveness.
John makes it an explicit condition; “If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins” (1 John ch1 v19).
That is the teaching of the rest of the New Testament. We are sinners, but we may turn back to God, and then we are forgiven.

You speak of repentance, only God knows, I speak of love, which covers a multitude of sins, including yours.

Are you aware of every sin committed in your life without missing one? What about sins you are not aware of? Repentance is very important but like baking, other ingredients are also needed.



a reply to: DISRAELI

My point:

We repent and call out the sin in our life asking for forgiveness in Christ's name....each and every sin you recall asking for repentance, but wait a minute....you forgot to call out ALL SIN (no one is perfect)

There is more involved in forgiveness than simply repent.

We are to walk and act like Jesus while living on this rock and I am the first to admit my sins are known in both heaven and hell and constantly fall short of God's expectations of me but he still revealed himself to me and if this great God reveals himself and his love for me than definitely he will do the same for everyone else.




a reply to: DeathSlayer