HIV not causing AIDS

The documentary " House Of Numbers " talk`s also about the HIV test .





Person can be for example diagnosted HIV positive in USA, but take few steps to Canada and have HIV negative , not to mention all the other funny stuff....

And since nobody has ever showed that HIV causes AIDS ....

originally posted by: Asmodeus3

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: Asmodeus3

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: Kenzo
a reply to: ScepticScot


The threat of a global Aids epidemic is over, say experts


So let`s see....are you going to repeat that ridiculous accusation also with daily mail writer ?

Please show where that article supports your claim in this thread that AIDS is not caused by HIV then we can see who is being ridiculous.

Who has proven that HIV causes AIDS?

That's the first question to be answered before going in depth in this.

You are directing the question to the other member but I am asking you to do first things first...

Is this the third or fourth paper I have provided on how HIV attacks t-cells?

bmcbiol.biomedcentral.com...

That's not the same as telling me who has proved causation of AIDS by HIV.

What is his/her name? Do you have an idea? Because it's pretty strange that you don't know the scientist(s) given that you say you know a lot about the syndrome. Going around and making desperate attempts to find some articles about models of causation isn't the same as pointing to who gets credit for proving HIV causes AIDS.

Studies showing how it happens aren't good enough because you havent for a celeb scientist name to hang on to?

What a strange view of hiw science works.

originally posted by: Asmodeus3

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: Kenzo
a reply to: ScepticScot

This discussion , which startet later in this topic was that the virus is not dangerous to heterosexual women, then we started debate about it, then at some point we point to you experts saying it. We give you sources, but you just keep on this ridiculous denying that nobody is expert or saying truth, then you attack also journalist . What are you smoking ?

Yes this was the expert.

Heterosexual transmission of HIV – Nancy Padian, PhD
HIV is unquestionably transmitted through heterosexual intercourse. Indeed, heterosexual intercourse is now responsible for 70-80% of all HIV transmissions worldwide (2). The current likelihood of male to female infection after a single exposure to HIV is 0.01-0.32% (2, 3), and the current likelihood of female to male infection after a single exposure is 0.01-0.1% (2). These estimates are mostly derived from studies in the developed world. However, a man or a woman can become HIV-positive after just one sexual contact. In developing countries, particularly those in sub-Saharan Africa, several factors (co-infection with other sexually transmitted diseases, circumcision practices, poor acceptance of condoms, patterns of sexual partner selection, locally circulating viral subtypes, high viral loads among those who are infected, etc.) can increase the likelihood of heterosexual transmission to 20% or even higher (4). Evidence that specifically documents the heterosexual transmission of HIV comes from studies of HIV-discordant couples (i.e., couples in a stable, monogamous relationship where one partner is infected and the other is not); over time, HIV transmission occurs (5). Other studies have traced the transmission of HIV through networks of sexual partners (6-9). Additional evidence comes from intervention studies that, for example, promote condom use or encourage reductions in the numbers of sexual partners: the documented success of these interventions is because they prevent the sexual transmission of HIV (1,10,11).

In short, the evidence for the sexual transmission of HIV is well documented, conclusive, and based on the standard, uncontroversial methods and practices of medical science. Individuals who cite the 1997 Padian et al. publication (1) or data from other studies by our research group in an attempt to substantiate the myth that HIV is not transmitted sexually are ill informed, at best. Their misuse of these results is misleading, irresponsible, and potentially injurious to the public

Not saying what you claim.

It is good however that you have moved from your ridiculous claim that HIV doesn't cause AIDS.

This is another strawman.

I haven't made any claim myself.

If you think that HIV causes AIDS on its own then you should be able to tell me who proved that HIV causes AIDS and not asserted as a fact.

Kary Mullis, the Nobel Prize winner for the invention of PCR was looking for many years and still couldn't find who gets credit for the casuation of AIDS by HIV. Actually he said that there is nothing into it.
He came to the conclusion that there is not enough evidence to prove causation just as many others.

That was a reply to the OP of this thread. You seem to be struggling to follow the thread.

originally posted by: Kenzo
a reply to: ScepticScot

Then please say where is say that , you are again twisting everything. That study and the other experts show that the risk to certain groups are extremely low, and the importance to bring it to this discussion is obviously because it is in conflict with the official AIDS narrative. I have not sayed anything that i would have changed my position from OP .

Yes, precisely!

The AIDS narrative and the doom and gloom scenarios have been refuted long time ago. They were absurd and ludicrous to start with.

The Padian study together has shown clearly how wrong was the narrative and their gloom and doom scenarios.

The final nail in the coffin came from Dr James Chin

The vast majority of the world's population is at no measurable risk of HIV infection

Anything else is just denialism of reality and facts. It resembles very much the Covid narrative.

a reply to: Kenzo

www.badscience.net...

a reply to: ScepticScot



Tell us , who has proved causation of AIDS by HIV

It`s time you tell that , we been asking it here for some time, yet you wont comply .

originally posted by: Kenzo
a reply to: ScepticScot



Tell us , who has proved causation of AIDS by HIV

It`s time you tell that , we been asking it here for some time, yet you wont comply .

See multiple answers already given.

a reply to: ScepticScot

Opinion from medical doctor , must be quite mainstream doctor and " wants " to back up mainstream narrative , what a surprice eh..


One doctor against the people in the film .

a reply to: ScepticScot


No, you have not given yet who and when .

originally posted by: Kenzo
a reply to: ScepticScot

Opinion from medical doctor , must be quite mainstream doctor and " wants " to back up mainstream narrative , what a surprice eh..


One doctor against the people in the film .

The overwhelming majority of doctors and scientists against the people in the film.

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: Asmodeus3

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: Asmodeus3

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: Kenzo
a reply to: ScepticScot


The threat of a global Aids epidemic is over, say experts


So let`s see....are you going to repeat that ridiculous accusation also with daily mail writer ?

Please show where that article supports your claim in this thread that AIDS is not caused by HIV then we can see who is being ridiculous.

Who has proven that HIV causes AIDS?

That's the first question to be answered before going in depth in this.

You are directing the question to the other member but I am asking you to do first things first...

Is this the third or fourth paper I have provided on how HIV attacks t-cells?

bmcbiol.biomedcentral.com...

That's not the same as telling me who has proved causation of AIDS by HIV.

What is his/her name? Do you have an idea? Because it's pretty strange that you don't know the scientist(s) given that you say you know a lot about the syndrome. Going around and making desperate attempts to find some articles about models of causation isn't the same as pointing to who gets credit for proving HIV causes AIDS.

Studies showing how it happens aren't good enough because you havent for a celeb scientist name to hang on to?

What a strange view of hiw science works.

Studies showing proposed models of pathogenesis are far from being facts. The fact that there could be many of these models shows there is no proof of how HIV kills allegedly T-helper cells.

The Inability of anyone (as the challenge is to anyone out there) to tell me who has proved that HIV causes AIDS shows precisely what Mullis was saying back in the 80s, 90s, and throughout his life until his death.

So my question to you again who I have asked several times: Who has proved that HIV causes AIDS?

Because I happen to know who got the Nobel Prize for discovering the virus, Luc Montagnier and Francoise-Barre Sinoussi.

Your turn now to show how much you know.

originally posted by: Kenzo
a reply to: ScepticScot



Tell us , who has proved causation of AIDS by HIV

It`s time you tell that , we been asking it here for some time, yet you wont comply .

Because he can't get the answer in the Google search. Sometimes Google isn't a good friend sometimes it is.

But the question remains.

And the burden of proof is not on you to prove that HIV doesn't cause AIDS but for those who have claimed it does.

originally posted by: Kenzo
a reply to: ScepticScot


No, you have not given yet who and when .

The nobel was awarded the discovery of the virus.

There are then countless studies developing the understanding of how the virus affects human immune system.

I have linked to several studies that cover some of the history and studies.

a reply to: Asmodeus3


That´s how i too see this also.

originally posted by: Asmodeus3

originally posted by: Kenzo
a reply to: ScepticScot



Tell us , who has proved causation of AIDS by HIV

It`s time you tell that , we been asking it here for some time, yet you wont comply .

Because he can't get the answer in the Google search. Sometimes Google isn't a good friend sometimes it is.

But the question remains.

And the burden of proof is not on you to prove that HIV doesn't cause AIDS but for those who have claimed it does.

Which has been done repeatedly for decades.

The extraordinary claim is that it doesn't.

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: Asmodeus3

originally posted by: Kenzo
a reply to: ScepticScot



Tell us , who has proved causation of AIDS by HIV

It`s time you tell that , we been asking it here for some time, yet you wont comply .

Because he can't get the answer in the Google search. Sometimes Google isn't a good friend sometimes it is.

But the question remains.

And the burden of proof is not on you to prove that HIV doesn't cause AIDS but for those who have claimed it does.

Which has been done repeatedly for decades.

The extraordinary claim is that it doesn't.

You see that there is an issue here.

You can't talk about extraordinary claims when the claim that HIV causes AIDS is not attributed to anyone yet, after almost 40 years since the virus was discovered, and for which you couldn't find a scientist or a number of scientists who proved causation and were recognised for their contributions.

If you take a further look, and I am sure you can use Google in this case, you would see that HIV is not a new virus but it's likely among humans for hundreds of years and coexisted peacefully with humans without causing much. And so do most retroviruses if not all.


To remind you that the co-discoverer of HIV, Dr Gallo wanted to look for retroviruses and blame them for everything.

Take a look at this

He discovered HL23V, the first ever leukemia causing virus. Lots of work and publications on this particular one analysis the mechanism of causing cancers. It was later proved that HL23V didn't exist(!) at all and it was contamination from materials from 3 different monkey viruses

He then discovered HTLV1 who he also blamed for leukemia and lymphoma as someone would have expected. It turned out that the virus allegedly causes the above blood cancers in...2%-5% of the cases of individuals infected with HTLV1 and doesn't cause cancer in the 95%-98% of the cases of individuals infected with HTLV1....Not much exists in the casuation of these cancers by this virus apart from a hypothesis for a 2% of the cases....

And he didn't stop there as he tried to link another retrovirus, this time HIV, with immune deficiencies. Not just a link but made a hypothesis of causation of such a complex syndrome by just one retrovirus

originally posted by: Asmodeus3

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: Asmodeus3

originally posted by: Kenzo
a reply to: ScepticScot



Tell us , who has proved causation of AIDS by HIV

It`s time you tell that , we been asking it here for some time, yet you wont comply .

Because he can't get the answer in the Google search. Sometimes Google isn't a good friend sometimes it is.

But the question remains.

And the burden of proof is not on you to prove that HIV doesn't cause AIDS but for those who have claimed it does.

Which has been done repeatedly for decades.

The extraordinary claim is that it doesn't.

You see that there is an issue here.

You can't talk about extraordinary claims when the claim that HIV causes AIDS is not attributed to anyone yet, after almost 40 years since the virus was discovered, and for which you couldn't find a scientist or a number of scientists who proved causation and were awarded for their contributions.

If you take a further look, and I am sure you can use Google in this case, you would see that HIV is not a new virus but it's likely among humans for hundreds of years and coexisted peacefully with humans without causing much. And so do most retroviruses.


To remind you that the co-discoverer of HIV, Dr Gallo wanted to look for retroviruses and blame them for everything.

Take a look at this

He discovered HL23V, the first ever leukemia causing virus. Lots of work on this one. It was later proved that HL23V didn't exist at all and it was contamination from materials from 3 different monkey viruses

He then discovered HTLV1 who he then blamed for leukemia and lymphoma as someone would have expected. It turned out that the virus allegedly causes the above blood cancers in...2%-5% of the cases of individuals infected by HTLV1 and doesn't cause cancer in the 95%-98% of the cases of individuals infected with HTLV1....Not much exists in the casuation of these cancers by this virus apart from a hypothesis.

And he didn't stop there as he tried to link another retrovirus, this time HIV, with immune deficiencies. Not just a link but made a hypothesis of causation of such a complex syndrome by just one retrovirus

I have provided numerous links for research showing HIV causes AIDS.

There are thousands of researchers who have contributed to our knowledge of HIV. If you want a name go with Davud Klatzman or pick a name from any of the links I have provided.

HIV causing AIDS is almost universally accepted by medical professionals and researchers and based on decades of research.

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: Asmodeus3

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: Asmodeus3

originally posted by: Kenzo
a reply to: ScepticScot



Tell us , who has proved causation of AIDS by HIV

It`s time you tell that , we been asking it here for some time, yet you wont comply .

Because he can't get the answer in the Google search. Sometimes Google isn't a good friend sometimes it is.

But the question remains.

And the burden of proof is not on you to prove that HIV doesn't cause AIDS but for those who have claimed it does.

Which has been done repeatedly for decades.

The extraordinary claim is that it doesn't.

You see that there is an issue here.

You can't talk about extraordinary claims when the claim that HIV causes AIDS is not attributed to anyone yet, after almost 40 years since the virus was discovered, and for which you couldn't find a scientist or a number of scientists who proved causation and were awarded for their contributions.

If you take a further look, and I am sure you can use Google in this case, you would see that HIV is not a new virus but it's likely among humans for hundreds of years and coexisted peacefully with humans without causing much. And so do most retroviruses.


To remind you that the co-discoverer of HIV, Dr Gallo wanted to look for retroviruses and blame them for everything.

Take a look at this

He discovered HL23V, the first ever leukemia causing virus. Lots of work on this one. It was later proved that HL23V didn't exist at all and it was contamination from materials from 3 different monkey viruses

He then discovered HTLV1 who he then blamed for leukemia and lymphoma as someone would have expected. It turned out that the virus allegedly causes the above blood cancers in...2%-5% of the cases of individuals infected by HTLV1 and doesn't cause cancer in the 95%-98% of the cases of individuals infected with HTLV1....Not much exists in the casuation of these cancers by this virus apart from a hypothesis.

And he didn't stop there as he tried to link another retrovirus, this time HIV, with immune deficiencies. Not just a link but made a hypothesis of causation of such a complex syndrome by just one retrovirus

I have provided numerous links for research showing HIV causes AIDS.

There are thousands of researchers who have contributed to our knowledge of HIV. If you want a name go with Davud Klatzman or pick a name from any of the links I have provided.

HIV causing AIDS is almost universally accepted by medical professionals and researchers and based on decades of research.

You have provided some links with the proposed mechanisms of pathogenesis based on the assumption that HIV causes AIDS. That's far from proving causation.

The person you are naming isn't the one who proved causation of AIDS by HIV. If such person existed we would have known him by now.

There are decades on research on this virus. Nobody says the opposite.



1) But there were several years of research and dedication on HL23V discovered by Gallo that turned out not to exist!

2) There are decades of research on HTLV1 discovered by Gallo and allegedly causing leukemia/lymphoma expect in the 98% of the cases... No much evidence that causes anything in the rest 2% of the cases.

3) And there decades of research on HIV and HIV pathogenesis which was co-discovered by Gallo where still we don't know who has proved that HIV causes AIDS, what is the mechanism of pathogenesis, and why it takes several years or decades from infection to the onset of AIDS.


In the meantime all predictions emanating by the AIDS establishment have failed. We are now 8 billion on the planet and up from 4.5 billion in the mid 80s. Entire populations were not decimated by HIV & AIDS and heterosexual AIDS didn't materialise. People still have plenty of sex and nobody even bothers to think about HIV as

The vast majority of the world's population is at no measurable risk of HIV infection

Dr James Chin
Head of Global Surveillance WHO




From the Independent Article earlier provided by Kenzo.

A quarter of a century after the outbreak of Aids, the World Health Organisation (WHO) has accepted that the threat of a global heterosexual pandemic has disappeared.

[

a reply to: Kenzo

www.schwartzreport.net...

A quarter of a century after the outbreak of Aids, the World Health Organisation (WHO) has accepted that the threat of a global heterosexual pandemic has disappeared. In the first official admission that the universal prevention strategy promoted by the major Aids organisations may have been misdirected, Kevin de Cock, the head of the WHO’s department of HIV/Aids said there will be no generalised epidemic of Aids in the heterosexual population outside Africa

Dr De Cock, an epidemiologist who has spent much of his career leading the battle against the disease, said understanding of the threat posed by the virus had changed. Whereas once it was seen as a risk to populations everywhere, it was now recognised that, outside sub-Saharan Africa, it was confined to high-risk groups including men who have sex with men, injecting drug users, and sex workers and their clients. Dr De Cock said: ‘It is very unlikely there will be a heterosexual epidemic in other countries'

I don't think there was any risk to the heterosexual populations to start with. It was asserted as a fact but there was no evidence at all to support such a claim. It scared a whole generation to death and it emanated by a morally bankrupt and corrupt AIDS industry that did see all its predictions fail.

AIDS in most of the world has been confined to the original risk groups. Intravenous drug users and a subset of male homosexuals. Those who don't belong to the above two groups have miniscule chances of infected with HIV and develop AIDS.

The climate of hysteria and paranoia in the 80s did resemble the climate of hysteria and paranoia we have witnessed over Covid in the last 3 years.

a reply to: Kenzo

Some thought you would like to entertain (probably)

'Up to today there is actually no single scientifically really convincing evidence for the existence of HIV. Not even once such a retrovirus has been isolated and purified by the methods of classical virology." (Letter to Suddeutsche Zeitung) 2000

Dr. Heinz Ludwig Sanger, Emeritus Professor of Molecular Biology and Virology, Max-Planck-Institutes for Biochemistry, Munchen.