Russia Ukraine Update Thread - part 3

originally posted by: ufoorbhunter
a reply to: paraphi


So when does it become the UK's business when Russia starts invading and conquering countries to their west, after they have taken Germany and France and are getting too close to the UK? By then you might not be able to stop them if they had all those resources behind their empire.

The Russian's aren't going to attempt to invade Britain, that's just crazy! We have nukes anyway as a deterrent, never going to happen. This is all about Ukraine and a proxy war perpetrated by Britain and its allies to incorporate this part of Europe into NATO. The evidence is mounting all the time that this whole fiasco in the east has been formented through the usual Colour Revolution along with taking control of ukraine's armed forces, training them in the UK, arming them with our weapons, all the way to controlling the war of attrition against Russian natives to this region and the discrimination that goes with it post the coup in 2014. Proxy War pure and simple.

originally posted by: ufoorbhunter
The Russian's aren't going to attempt to invade Britain, that's just crazy! We have nukes anyway as a deterrent, never going to happen.

Are nukes really a deterrent to a madman like Putin who might actually use them?

Well at least his state run media wants the world to believe he would use them, and they have talked about wiping out the entire UK with a very small number of nukes. Sure UK could nuke Moscow and St Petersburg, the major cities, but Russia has lots of land that would still be viable after a nuclear exchange, the UK doesn't. Not that I think that will ever happen, but the reason it won't happen is because leaders don't have the same isolationist attitudes as you and don't want to let Putin get as far as Hitler did in his expansion.

I don't think European countries were trying to destabilize Russia before 2014, some of them had a good thing going with cheap energy coming from Russia, so I don't know why you seem to think that.

a reply to: Arbitrageur

European countries in general weren't trying to destabilize Russia and had a good relationship going on. Britain on the other hand has been at it virtually non stop since the mid 19th century. All we need to realise is Russia has its sphere of influence, Russian's have their sense of pride, by constantly trying to bait them we now have Russia pushing back. I just can't believe it's taken until now for Moscow to attempt to push back using military means. Russia is fighting an increasing aggressive and expansionist NATO now seen to be injecting special forces into a war arena that is quite simply non of NATO's business. The West has taken the piss with Russia post 1991 in so many ways, we knew on here that you can only push Moscow so far without some reaction. No good can come of any of this meddling in an inter Slav mafia war that will sort itself out just like our failed intervention in the land of the Arabs and Afghans. No good can come of it and it's non of our business

a reply to: ufoorbhunter


Are you really from UK ? You really sound more like brainwashed Russian .

a reply to: paraphi

you dont send special forces in to just train people
they are there for a reason and thats to do jobs that other forces just cant do

special forces MACVSOG didnt goto Vietnam just to train people , they went out and got # done
you dont need a significantly large number of people who are specially trained to get # done
history tells us so.

a reply to: sapien82

You’re hilarious. US Green Berets pretty much only train natives.

a reply to: SgtEsquire

special forces that were sent under MACVSOG did more than just train natives in Vietnam
they ran ops in Cambodia , Laos and Vietnam , they did recon missions they blew # up
they fought the Vietnamese all across the country and over the borders.

its in Lynne Black's book Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, and John "Stryker" Myers book Across the fence, read them if you dont believe me





Here is Ken Bowra
speaking about his time in MACVSOG

a reply to: sapien82

Special Ops people conduct many different missions, not all combat.

They were in combat in Vietnam along with regular U.S. forces, no surprise there.

IF they are present in Ukraine, that does not mean they have engaged Russian forces in combat.

Cheers

a reply to: F2d5thCavv2

Yeh that is most likely true , even if they were in combat it will most likely be classified for at least another 20-30 years just like every single MACVSOG mission in Vietnam.

I wouldnt be surprised to find out thats where these across the border ammo dump and fuel dump explosions are a result of

a reply to: sapien82

Or Russia could present undeniable evidence they fought US (or UK) special ops people in areas on or behind the Russian front lines.

I suspect they're trying to avoid direct engagements. Too much risk for too little gain.

ETA. The explosions could result from several causes. It doesn't take special ops people to blow up an ammo dump when one guy firing incendiary ammunition from his assault rifle can do the job.

Cheers

a reply to: F2d5thCavv2

or some negligent solider on duty accidentally setting the place ablaze

but aye I agree it doesnt often take special forces

thing about special forces though , if they go in without ID like MACVSOG were told to
no identifying signs of nationality or military so how can the enemy identify you
to them you could just be a mercenary to maintain plausible deniability
so how would Russia even prove it so if they killed a few special ops guys from either UK or US

a reply to: sapien82

Yes, by the nature of special ops, there is often ambiguity.

I doubt though, that they're directly engaging in this war, because of the risk:reward relationship I mentioned. If the US or UK wanted to accept that kind of risk, there are far more strategic targets in Russia to disable than tactical fuel and ammo dumps.

Cheers

originally posted by: Arbitrageur

I don't think European countries were trying to destabilize Russia before 2014, some of them had a good thing going with cheap energy coming from Russia, so I don't know why you seem to think that.

The term destabilized is used over and over to explain Russian aggression. It's just another excuse of a long list of "reasons" why Russia invaded a number of countries since Putin been in office. The reality is that the fall of the USSR took Russia from the No 2 or 3 spot to about what Texas is in GOP and Putin wants Russia back on the world stage and to do that he need Ukraine and a few other older USSR countries back under his control.

This all has nothing to do with Russia worried about EU or America doing some first strike or invasion. As you suggested everyone wants Russia to just be a good neighbor and sell their energy etc, but then Russia would not be in the position they once were on the world stage.

originally posted by: sapien82
you dont send special forces in to just train people

I am reliably informed that you can, and do. Training is not just around how to shoot, but could be around e.g. working covertly, using special kit, or simply coaching to build knowledge and competence.

Either way, the numbers are not great, so probably a niche role.

originally posted by: F2d5thCavv2
a reply to: sapien82

Yes, by the nature of special ops, there is often ambiguity.

I doubt though, that they're directly engaging in this war, because of the risk:reward relationship I mentioned. If the US or UK wanted to accept that kind of risk, there are far more strategic targets in Russia to disable than tactical fuel and ammo dumps.

Cheers

I dunno. More than a few people have wondered if the sharp increase in train derailments might be sabotage. Whose to say the Russians don't have covert ops going on in our country as well?

a reply to: AndyFromMichigan

Underinvestment over many years.

Reliability and safety of outdated equipment is also a concern.

www.railpassengers.org...

originally posted by: Kenzo
a reply to: ufoorbhunter


Are you really from UK ? You really sound more like brainwashed Russian .

Yes born and bred in the sinking ship otherwise known as the UK. We've got massive problems here in the UK with homeless people everywhere, infrastructure literally falling apart the roads are barely useable pot holes everywhere that never get repaired, massive healthcare problems, a Police force that can barely operate, crime rampant, a population that is struggling to make ends meet due to the cost of living crisis leading to crippling strikes in every sector bringing the nation to a standstill. We need to help our own rather than paying for a proxy war in Eastern Europe. If you guys want to take Russia on go for it, do it yourselves, fight for your borders, fund the weaponry, but please understand that the average man in the street over here wants absolutely no part in this proxy war. We are safe on our island fortress, in addition we are armed to the teeth with Trident, we have no reason to fear any nation. Ukraine is just the latest nonsense following the nonsense with the Arabs and Afghans. Non of our business whatsoever and the best thing we can do is ship out and stay out of this inter Slav mafia war.

a reply to: ufoorbhunter

Who is talking about taking Russia on?

You don't speak for the "average man in the street".

By the way, I used the A303, M3, M25 and A20 last weekend.

Got there and back just fine, thanks.

Quite usable.

a reply to: ufoorbhunter

Burying your head in the sand only results in you getting well and truly shafted up the rear.

Appeasement doesn't work.

In this day and age it would be impossible for the UK to be self-sufficient even if we were to right all the many things that are wrong here.
Isolationism doesn't work.

The average man in the street?
There's probably more support for Ukraine than any other conflict I've known in my fast approaching 58 years being born, bred and living here.

Putin thought his troops were going to march through the Ukraine unopposed. If they had it would only have been a matter of time before his ego driven desire for a Greater Russia and personal glory would have led to even more land grabs.
At what point would YOU say enough is enough?

It's partly due to the support Ukraine has received from NATO and other friendly nations that has prevented that.
And I can guarantee it'll be some time before Russia ever invades another country again.

As for the UK and its own problems; sure, there's plenty and we should be addressing core issues and root causes....but that's a different discussion altogether.

I am surprised no one has brought this forward yet, or if I missed it, my apologies for the double post. It probably deserves a thread but again, my time is kinda restricted so I can't do it justice.

ISW report for April 9th

ISW is publishing a special edition campaign assessment today, April 9. This report discusses Russia’s religious repressions throughout occupied Ukraine since the start of the Russian full-scale invasion of Ukraine on February 24, 2022. Russia continues to weaponize religion in an effort to discredit Ukraine in the international arena and is using information operations about religion to advance military objectives despite itself committing gross violations of religious freedom in occupied Ukraine. Russia may use the upcoming Orthodox Easter holiday on April 16 in an effort to delay Ukrainian counteroffensives by calling for a ceasefire out of respect for the Orthodox religion despite the fact that Russia has shown no such respect for religion in areas its forces occupy. Russian religious persecutions are likely also part of an ongoing Russian cultural genocide and ethnic cleansing campaign aimed at extirpating the idea of an independent Ukrainian nationality or Ukrainian Orthodox Church.

Although it isn't something I focus on regularly, I do try and keep an eye on it because you get a lot of LOUD noise from Russian supporters about the religious persecution being done towards the Russian Church in Ukraine. It's a holy war according to a few of the mouth pieces on Russian TV. Well, it looks like they are correct. I've heard of a few of these incidents but most are even new to me. This one caught my attention particularly...

www.slavicsac.com...

According to the agencies, Russian soldiers appeared in the church during the service, which was captured on video during the church's online broadcast. The video itself has already been removed from the Internet, but Release International publishes footage of the past raid.

“They broke into the church premises when the parishioners were singing the hymn, stopped the service, registered the names of all those present and detained several ministers,” writes one observer.

Need a translator for the link.

One thing I do like about ISW is they give you links to just about everything they discuss. Both Russian and Ukrianian stuff as well as international stuff that relates to the war. What I have reservations about is the fact that their board looks like a who's who of "retired" intelligence/military. I mean Petreaus is there and he's the usual mouthpiece of the group in the media. But in saying that, throughout this war, I have found them to be fairly unbiased and the stuff they report checks out through multiple sources from multiple sides. I can't really expect much more than that. Like the old saying goes: They tell it like it is and let the facts speak for themselves