Do you have any question about *Jihad* ???

Hello Islam:
Perhaps I have missed something in this thread, but could you answer the following questions for me:

1) Why and How do the wahabiist (sp) fit into the concept of Jihad? Are they some sort of holy warriors?

2) Why are the wahabbist and Madras (sp) schools teaching fantical suicide bombing techniques to young people in the middle east? These schools are state sponsored in Both Saudi Arabia and Palestine....if my facts are correct?

3) Why do peole who are Both of the Semetic tribes.....Palestinians Arabs and Jews...not get along?

If I have missed something in your previous reponses on this thread, my apologies....otherwise I look forward to your response!

Isreal's Occupation

How to turn Palestine State into a Prison.

All borders controlled by Isreal
- Palestine state surrounded by Isreali's troops.
- Isreal controlls seaports, airports, airspace and "security zones"
- Isreal regulates all entry/exit, trade.

Palestinian areas disconnected
- Isreal annexes settlements blocks.
- Isreal retains strategiy highway segments - controlling the movement of people and goods.
- 370.000 Isreali's remain on confiscated Palestinian land.

Natural resources stripped
- Isreai keeps control of aquifers, diverts water for itself.
- Isreali "Long-term Lease" on Jordan valley farmland.

East Jerusalem encircled by Isreal
- Palestinian economic Heart cut off from West Bank.
- No Palestinian sovereignity over religious and cultural centers.
- 200.000 Palestinian East Jerusalemites surrounded by Isreali settelements.

Gaza becoms a Large Prison
- Million impoverished Palestinian confirmed to 60% to tiny Gaza - 6000 Isreali settlers is other 40%.

Isreali's Occupation places 3 million Palestinians Under Siege.

Settler population doubled since "Oslo Peace Process" in 1993
- 400.000 settlers in West Bank, Gaza and East Jerusalem.
- 2850 Palestinian homes demolished.
- 10.000 Palestinian made homeless.

Palestinians confined to Enclaves
- West Bank carved into 200 disconected "islands".
- Separated by Isreali settlements, highways, checkpoints.

250 miles of Isreali Bypass Highway
- Free movement for Isreali settlers and soldiers.
- Barriers to Palestinian movement, city growth.
- Can be closed to Palestine traffic indefinetly.

Palestinian land expropriated and agriculture destroyed
- 72% of West Bank declated Israeli "State Land".
- 50.000 acres seized.
- 150.000 olive trees and fruit uprooted.

"Closure" imposed on occupied territories
- No Palestinian crossing between Gaza and West Bank.
- Jerusalem off-limits to Most Palestinians!
- Unemployment rate 50% in the West Bank, 80% in Gaza.

"Greater Jerusalem" explansion plans
- Isreal controlls the economic heart of the West Bank and renders a Palestinian state non-viable
- Palestinian sections lack city services - all growth constrained, house demolitions ongoing.


Under occupation Isrealis Prosper - Palestinians Despair


"Over the year Isreal had cultivated a self-serving myth that ours was an Enlightened Occupation. Our self image as a Humane society and histoys eternal victim Blinded us to what was going on in the territories...
What I discovered was that a West Bank Palestinian could not BUILD, START A BUSINESS, WORK, STUDY, PURCHASE LAND, GROW, PRODUCE, TAKE A WALK AT NIGHT, ENTER ISREAL, GO ABROAD, VISIT HIS FAMILY IN GAZA OR JORDAN without a PERMIT! About a third of the Palestinian population has been detained or imprisoned by Isreal. And the Entire Palestinian population has been Grossly Humiliated by us."

Uri Savir, Isreals Chief Negotiator in the Oslo process 1998


"Isreals supposed offer to withdraw from 95% of the West Bank will NOT create Peace, but rather a Palestinian Prison State. The issue is one of control, viability and sovereignity - not just territory.
Just as prison guard control only 5% of a prison (outer walls, cells and corridors), so too will Isreal border crossings, settlements, and bypass roads continue to control a Palestinian mini-state.
The ONLY Solution is to DISMANTLE THE MATRIX OF CONTROL COMPLETLY!"

Jeff Halper, Isrealis Committe Against House Demolitions

[edit on 10/4/05 by Souljah]

Originally posted by Islam
This is just aquick reply for you "Obfuscate"

You are either out of any religious knowledge or simply you wanted to waise your time and thus you post your worthless post.

The same verses are mentioned in Bible and Torah but in different style.

So are you going to laugh on the bible and Torah too.

Yes Christians worship Satan just as much as Islam's do.

Im not sure what Torah is. I never said the bible was not as immoral as the Quran.

But thanks for the worthless reply. Thanks for not answering any of my quotes trying to justify the morality.




[edit on 10-4-2005 by Obfuscate]

Continue with the "Refugee Problem"
The Palestinian Refugees are the only group from the WWII era that was not absorbed into the countries of their residence.
During and following WWII massive population shifts occurred throughout the world. Yet the Palestinians, the only group from that era, remain to this day as refugees and second hand citizens in Egypt, Syria, Jordan and Lebanon. They are not absorbed into their respective countries of residence as a strategic decision to keep the Arab-Israeli conflict alive. Had the Arabs absorbed them into their countries their plight would have been insignificant, but in the name of Arab pride and hatred of the Jews Arab countries keep their Palestinian brothers suffering for almost 60 years.

Support and supply international terrorist groups to fight Israel
Arab states have supported and financed Terrorist organizations to kill civilians for the crimes of being Jewish even before the founsing of Israel. The PLO, Hamas, Islamic Jihad, Hezbullah all receive nice sums of money to finance terrorist operations against non-combatants. All these organizations have been supplied and financed by Saudi Arabia, Syria, Iraq and Iran.

create a lobby in the UN to condemn Israel for every defensive action taken
The UN through the 70s 80s and 90s consistently condemned Israel for ridiculous reasons - For example - Attacking the Iraqi nuclear facility in 1981, making peace with Egypt, for opening a tunnel in Jerusalem that "endangered the Al aqtza Mosque (even though it passed nowhere near the mosque) in which violence broke out (initiated by Palestinians of course). These were automatic condemnations of Arab/Muslim/Third-world countries who had a majority in the general assembly of the UN.

There was never once have a UN resolution been given against Palestinian Terrorism as heinous as they were.

Sign commitments and never follow them through
The PLO signed the OSLO accords with Israel and consistently renegged on their commitments. This ranged from commitments such as fighting terrorism, refrain from incitement, refrain from engaging in terrorist action, extradite terrorists. The list is large and plentiful but these are the primary breaches of the agreements.

Engage in Terrorism alongside with a Peace-process
The PLO was left in charge of over 95% of the Palestinian population following Israel's withdraw from the Westbank cities following OSLO 2 and WYE. Throughout the OSLO time period 1993 though tp 1996 negotiations went alongside terrorism while Yassir Arafat claimed he could not do anything against it - This was in spite of the fact that he had a >30,000 man strong police force which sported the highest police to civilian ratio in the world. After 2000 when the second intifadeh broke out, it was evident that Arafat was behind the terrorist attacks and even financed the most violent of the time the Al-Aqtza Martyr's brigade. This was always part of the phased destruction of Israel.

Tempt Israel to scrap their nuclear bombs
Promise Israel that no other middle eastern country will develop nuclear weapons if it would disarm itself from its nuclear arsenal. Of course clandestine development by Arab/Muslim coutnries would continue. This would effectively negate all deterence Israel has against its Arab neighbors and would invite future attacks.

Force Israel to withdrawn to its pre-1967 lines
Effectively, this would make splitting Israel into two since it would be 11 miles long in its narrowest location around the area of Netanya and Another by Kfar Sava. With modern weaponry Israel would be powerless against foreign attack. Of course the Palestinians would have to commit to arm themselves only with defensive weapons but then again their record on keeping their commitments is not good at all.

Question about Jihad

Hi Islam and welcome. I have a question. Are you telling me that if I tell my children, my nieces and nephews that we are not of this faith and therefore they are not to take it up or follow the beliefs of your faith that I am preventing people from being informed about Islam and therefore it is Ok to kill me? (not saying you personally) I am not trying to offend anyone just trying to figure out where the proverbial (or possibly literal) line may be.

NO diffidently.
I am talking about the government NOT about the ordinary people.
If the government is NOT allowing Muslims to pray and do their religious duty THEN it is Ok to fight it.

But if there let say a Christian group that want to prevent people from being a Muslim THEN that is their right as it is our right to let people away from other than Islam.

I see this statement as equaling the crusades and most people would agree that the people involved got it wrong.

I am also wondering in this day and age with the internet and books and libraries, people can learn about anything they choose to and therefore it would seem that when the statement was made it was valid but not necessarily so in the 21st century. Information is everywhere.

You are right.
But still there might be a government that will block the internet access to Islamic website.
That is NOT existing right now.

I have the following 2 questions. Are Muslims trying to convert the world to their faith? If a person learns of Allah and refuses to convert, what then?
Thank you so much for educating me on this. It is a subject we hear about daily and yet have very little knowledge of.

1. Yes, Muslims as any other religious people try to convert the world to Islam. That is our right as Christians have the right and as the Jews have the right etc.
2. If a person learns of Allah and refuses to convert, THEN read what Allah said in the Quran:

“So if they (nonMuslims) submit then indeed they follow the right way; and if they turn back, then upon you is only the delivery of the message and Allah sees the servants.” [003.020]

“Say: "Obey Allah, and obey the Messenger: but if ye turn away, he is only responsible for the duty placed on him and ye for that placed on you. If ye obey him, ye shall be on right guidance. The Messenger's duty is only to preach the clear (Message).” [024.054]

There are many other verses that has the same meaning if you want I will give it to you.

And it is important also to read this verse:

“There is no compulsion in religion; truly the right way has become clearly distinct from error; therefore, whoever disbelieves in the Shaitan and believes in Allah he indeed has laid hold on the firmest handle, which shall not break off, and Allah is Hearing, Knowing.” [002.256]

Any more question, you are welcome.

____________________________


DEAR vincere7

I read what bible say about Isiah and God.
And I would like to give this a s a gift to “Ofuscate” who is collecting the verses of punishment in the Quran forgetting that all religious books have something like that.

But you know, in the whole Quran there is no expression about a “bloody god” like what you’ve mentioned.

Here is the whole Quran. Read it if you don’t believe me.
kuftaro.org...

________________________________

Judah:

Stop please.
Do you want me to repeat the same things that I repeated it before????

I am giving you proves and facts from the international news, encyclopedias and you are just mumbling to defense your cute leader Sharon.

You want to convince me that the tens of massacres are a fake.
You want to convince me that the tens of thousands of who killed are a fake.
You want to convince me that there are no Palestinian refugees and I am from Syria- Damascus and I know each camp where is located!!!
You want to convince me that the 200 Nuclear Bombs are useless and a proof or peaceful!!!!
You want to convince me that what every day happen in the news is a myth.
www.cnn.com...

Who do you think you are talking to??? To a person who is living in Saturn or Mars???
Do you think that people will believe you and deny what all media say.

Any how, this post is about questions about Jihad. It is not about Palestinian-Israeli conflict. You can open this dialogue in a new post.

Hello Islam:
Perhaps I have missed something in this thread, but could you answer the following questions for me:

1) Why and How do the wahabiist (sp) fit into the concept of Jihad? Are they some sort of holy warriors?

2) Why are the wahabbist and Madras (sp) schools teaching fantical suicide bombing techniques to young people in the middle east? These schools are state sponsored in Both Saudi Arabia and Palestine....if my facts are correct?

3) Why do peole who are Both of the Semetic tribes.....Palestinians Arabs and Jews...not get along?

If I have missed something in your previous reponses on this thread, my apologies....otherwise I look forward to your response!

1) Wahhabies are a new “Islamic” direct started in 1820 when Muhammad Bin Abdulwahhab in Saudi Arabia say that many Muslims are not monotheists. But rather they are polytheists!!! He proved that because Muslims used to visit the graves of pious people.

Thus, he declared a war against any one who do that. He committed many massacres and crimes that spreaded till southern Syria when he committed a big massacre in Horan village.

He and his followers based their “Crime Jihad” to couple of Quran’ verses that they didn’t understand it.

The most verse that they based their crimes on is “and fight the Pagans all together as they fight you all together. But know that Allah is with those who restrain themselves.” [009.036]

Firstl of all, this verse is saying to fight all pagans as they fight us. But they are not fighting us then, don’t fight them.

Second, this verse was sent on Muhammad when ALL PEGAN Arabs decided to occupy Medina and kill all Muslims.But even though, prophet Muhammad didn’t fight them. Instead, he and his companions dig a huge dig around Medina and thus the Pegan Arabs couldn’t enter Medina.

Third, if this verse means that we should kill all pegans or polotheists whenever we see thme, then why NO Islamic scholar said that in the whole history except that Bin Abdulwahhab?

Forth, what proof more that this verse is for special circumstances is that Allah say in the Quran:

“Allah does not forbid you respecting those who have not made war against you on account of (your) religion, and have not driven you forth from your homes, that you show them kindness and deal with them justly; surely Allah loves the doers of justice.” [060.008]

He says also,

““There is no compulsion in religion; truly the right way has become clearly distinct from error; therefore, whoever disbelieves in the Shaitan and believes in Allah he indeed has laid hold on the firmest handle, which shall not break off, and Allah is Hearing, Knowing.” [002.256]

He says also,

““And if one of the idolaters seek protection from you, grant him protection till he hears the word of Allah, then make him attain his place of safety; this is because they are a people who do not know.” [009.006]


2) I think that because of the huge pressure that they are facing from Israel and their enemies, they went to that wrong way. In other word, Paalestinians want to go back to their stolen land, but the enemy (Israel) has all the power including (200 nuclear bombs) and Palestiniand have nothing at all except their souls and spirits and thus they commit these suicide bombing.

3) Well, not only Palestinian-Israeli conflict is not solved. There are many other places like Sudan, Nepal Chechnya, Kashmir, etc.
But if you look to the number of those who killed from Israelis and Palestinians, you will see that the number of Palestinians is multiplied hundreds of times.
That will drive us to a question.

WHO is the MORE terrorist??? The one who commit suicide bombing to kill couple of people who are occupying his land and kicking his family out.
OR those who have 200 nuclear bombs and who committed tens of massacres against the owners of the land???????????

I was happy to answer your voluble questions.

________________________


May Allah bless you Soluja

The time is come for the all world to know who are the terrorists.

Finally, what is the sin of this Muslims woman who is crying over the body of her husband and son that was buried under the dust of Israeli massacres in Sabra and Shatila

www.awda-dawa.com...

Her sins are:
1. She is a Muslim
2. She was born in Palestine
3. She want to go back to her land that was stolen
____________________

Dear Ofuscate:

God has to make punishment for those who are not doing right.

Why any government has the right to punish the wrong doers and God has not that right ???



[edit on 10-4-2005 by Islam]

Since when is not beleiving in Allah evil? Why should people who dont have faith in Allah be punished? Why does Allah send people to hell for not beleiving in him? And this is the kind of lunacy you beleive in and support?

Go back to the MIddle East to live in the third world hellhole that Allah has so graciously given your people.

I lost my nerves from some people

Originally posted by Obfuscate
Go back to the MIddle East to live in the third world hellhole that Allah has so graciously given your people.

So much for Denying Ignorance.

Ok, can we please have less of this:

Originally posted by Obfuscate
Go back to the MIddle East to live in the third world hellhole that Allah has so graciously given your people.

and this:

Originally posted by Souljah
So much for Denying Ignorance.

If you haven't anything constructive to add to this thread, please, don't add anything.

Thank you in advance for your cooperation.

Jack


[edit on 10/4/05 by JAK]

Originally posted by Obfuscate
Since when is not beleiving in Allah evil? Why should people who dont have faith in Allah be punished? Why does Allah send people to hell for not beleiving in him? And this is the kind of lunacy you beleive in and support?

Go back to the MIddle East to live in the third world hellhole that Allah has so graciously given your people.

Allah said:

"And the servants of the Beneficent Allah are they who walk on the earth in humbleness, and when the ignorant address them, they say: Peace. " [025.063]

Thus >>> PEACE!

So JAK maybe we should have less of the threads standing up for a certain religion. If they have a religious conspiracy they should contribute to the religion conspiracy forum.

And Islam, no the Quran contradicts itself over and over. It says Peace and then it says no peace, then it says peace, then it says no peace. Please stop defending it. I can read. I can draw my own conclusion. And you cannot rebutall this.

You are weak.

[edit on 10-4-2005 by Obfuscate]

Originally posted by Obfuscate
Since when is not beleiving in Allah evil? Why should people who dont have faith in Allah be punished? Why does Allah send people to hell for not beleiving in him? And this is the kind of lunacy you beleive in and support?

That is exactly what the bible says too, but not about Allah. It appears to be a common "theme" within religous texts.

Obfuscate, the equivalent to 'Go back home' and a reply 'Grow up' really does not further the aim of any conversation.

If this thread has got you too emotional to reply without such comments, perhaps you should take a break from it for a while.

Jack

That is exactly what the bible says too, but not about Allah. It appears to be a common "theme" within religous texts.

You are 100% right.

That is because Islam is not a new religion. Instead, Islam continues the previous revelations. hence, we believe in Moses, Jesus, Mary, Abraham, etc.

Islam has rules for every single act you want to do it.
It is a way of life that you will live as Allah (or God) want you to live.

Yeah so what? I already knew this.

You assume I do not know anything.

I want you to try and rebutall one thing I said to justify your morality in beleiving in Islam.

You cannot without first admitting you worship Satan and are below the ideal of what a human being should be. And you would have to admit that you have no respectable morals beleiving in Islam.




[edit on 10-4-2005 by Obfuscate]

OK Islam, I will oblige you and stop posting here on these issues.
I have not problem with Islam - only the political lies spread by those who associate themselves with Islam. I find no holyness in blowing up children on a bus, adults in a restaurant or old people in a passover feast. I find no Justification for lynching unarmed soldiers in the Ramallah police station after they were stopped by the Palestinian authority for accidentally going into Ramallah in their car. I find no justification of targeting children by Palestinain terrorists even if the children are settlers in West Bank or Gaza.
If Muslims support these actions (regardless of the excuses they use) they are evil and follow an evil interpretation of their religion. If they are against this action then they should be vocal and actively pursuit the terrorists in their midst and bring them to justice so that the whole world should know that Islam does not support terrorism.

Originally posted by JudahMaccabbi
OK Islam, I will oblige you and stop posting here on these issues.
I have not problem with Islam - only the political lies spread by those who associate themselves with Islam. I find no holyness in blowing up children on a bus, adults in a restaurant or old people in a passover feast. I find no Justification for lynching unarmed soldiers in the Ramallah police station after they were stopped by the Palestinian authority for accidentally going into Ramallah in their car. I find no justification of targeting children by Palestinain terrorists even if the children are settlers in West Bank or Gaza.
If Muslims support these actions (regardless of the excuses they use) they are evil and follow an evil interpretation of their religion. If they are against this action then they should be vocal and actively pursuit the terrorists in their midst and bring them to justice so that the whole world should know that Islam does not support terrorism.

I will say what you say.

I have not problem with jaudism. only the political lies spread by those who associate themselves with Jaudism.

I find no holyness in having the intention of destroying Masjid Alaqsa.
I find no justification of having 200 nuclear bombs without thedenying of any country especialt USA.
I find no justification in doing tens of massacres.
I find no justification in kicking more than 900,000 Palestinians from their homeland to live in an uncomfprtable camps in Lebanon, Jordan, and Syria.
I find no justification in killing -occasionly- dozen of Muslims.
I find no justification in preventing who are younger than 40 from entering Masjid Alaqsa.

If they are against this action then they should be vocal and actively pursuit the terrorists in their midst and bring them to justice so that the whole world should know that Jaudism does not support terrorism.

Good luck

Originally posted by Islam

Originally posted by JudahMaccabbi
OK Islam, I will oblige you and stop posting here on these issues.
I have not problem with Islam - only the political lies spread by those who associate themselves with Islam. I find no holyness in blowing up children on a bus, adults in a restaurant or old people in a passover feast. I find no Justification for lynching unarmed soldiers in the Ramallah police station after they were stopped by the Palestinian authority for accidentally going into Ramallah in their car. I find no justification of targeting children by Palestinain terrorists even if the children are settlers in West Bank or Gaza.
If Muslims support these actions (regardless of the excuses they use) they are evil and follow an evil interpretation of their religion. If they are against this action then they should be vocal and actively pursuit the terrorists in their midst and bring them to justice so that the whole world should know that Islam does not support terrorism.

I will say what you say.

I have not problem with jaudism. only the political lies spread by those who associate themselves with Jaudism.

I find no holyness in having the intention of destroying Masjid Alaqsa.

Jews do not intend on destroying Masjid Alaqsa. Maybe only a very few extremist Jewish group. This is an absurd Muslim conspiracy theory.

I find no justification of having 200 nuclear bombs without thedenying of any country especialt USA.

What? Como? que? Ma? Shu?

I find no justification in doing tens of massacres.

From hundreds now it tens? When you dig in a bit deeper you will just say massacres.

I find no justification in kicking more than 900,000 Palestinians from their homeland to live in an uncomfprtable camps in Lebanon, Jordan, and Syria.

Are you still in that fantasy of Jews kicking out Palestinians? And now its MORE THAN 900,000?

I find no justification in killing -occasionly- dozen of Muslims.

but killing Jews is justified?

I find no justification in preventing who are younger than 40 from entering Masjid Alaqsa.

Really then maybe you should try to make an effort to understand - with all the difficulty entailed with that just to be honest with yourself and fair. In a state of war who are likely to be more troublesome and prone to violence? people above or below the age of 40?

Good luck

Whatever! I think that this is going nowhere. You seem not to understand or not to want to understand. Never once were you capable of saying somthing bad against Arab agressions toward Israel like there is nothing bad about it. I did say that massacres occured but on both sides. That normally shows that Arabs have something to hide when they claim to be immaculate. Nothing in war is immaculate!! When Islam hides their faults behind lame excuses it just dirties that religion.

Have a good life. I hope Syria becomes a democracy so that you can enjoy freedoms of other democracies. I hope there can be peace between both our countries. I hope that Islam reverts to being a religion of peace as you claim it is. I hope that middle east conflict in the future will refer to a soccer game between Israel and Syria for example.

Oh !

You win!

khalas! killing thousands of people and committing trns of massacres and having 200 nuclear bombs and kicking 900,000 Palestinian is PEACE, MERCY, and HOLY.

Give my sincere solutation to the head of 21 century's peace, Ariel Sharon.

Originally posted by Islam
... Islam is not a new religion. Instead, Islam continues the previous revelations. hence, we believe in Moses, Jesus, Mary, Abraham, etc.

Ah! I'm glad you see things this way. So you obviously have no issues with the Jews occupying the land of Israel. I mean, that's one of the main themes of the Pentateuch(First 5 books of the Bible). Moses was leading the children of Israel out of Egypt into the promise land. So there's got to be no doubt that this land is truly called Israel, and it belongs to the Jews.

So in my mind, the only way that the Muslims could dispute this claim is if they pick and choose the portions of the Bible that they like. So, dispute the claim that the Jews are rightfully promised the land that they live in now, but first you must deny what Abraham and Moses taught.