Do you have any question about *Jihad* ???

Originally posted by Dallas

Not for me to say. But if I could say.. Get the Hell off this thread and while your at it - off the machine ats..
But that's only my thoughts.

Dallas

I think thats rather ignorant....But thats only my thoughts....

Originally posted by vincere7
Yeah like Richard Reid, who likes to stuff explosives in his shoes? This is not fantasy land. There are screwed up people out there who will kill ya for $500.00 or for a fanatical fantasy, or a real legitimate reason. That will never change. It's a hostile world we live in, always has been.

oh come on, can you really blow up a plane with your shoe?
id like to see it done.

anyway fear is the root of hate, thinking that the whole world is out to get you so you beter kill them all first just in case is not the way forward.
i think almost always people do things for a reason, and terrorists only do it out of fear, that can be the only reason.

[edit on 28-4-2005 by AdamJ]

Reid was seated at the right side window seat on row 29, which is located just aft of the wing's trailing edge. This location placed the bomb close to the pressurized outer skin of the airplane. If the force of the explosion ruptured the aluminum skin, (10 ounces of C4 would do just that) total loss of the airplane, all 197 passengers and crew aboard the Trans-Atlantic flight would have been the result. Just as we had seen on the Pan Am jetliner

In fact Abdul Hakim Murad was attempting the same thing except using liquid nitroglycerin. Once the liquid was assembled with two small, 9-volt batteries and concealed in their shoes, the bombs were to be hidden under aircraft seats. Fortunately they never got the chance.

His cohorts did detonate one of their bombs underneath a seat in a Manila movie theater on Dec. 1, 1994. Ten days later, another small bomb was planted in the life jacket pouch beneath a seat occupied by a Japanese businessman on a Philippines Airlines. The bomb detonated on the second leg of the flight, killing the businessman and injuring 10 others but causing only minor structural damage to the aircraft. (10 ounces of C4 would do much greater damage than 10 injuries and a 'small' hole).

Also don't foget 1988, Pan Am Flight 103, when a plastic explosive planted in a Toshiba radio hidden in an unaccompanied suitcase blew up over Lockerbie, Scotland, killing all 259 people aboard.

Yes shoe sbombs placed correctly will destroy a plane.

Since exploring the peacefulness of Islam, lets share Abdul Hakim Murad's comments,

"This is . . . the best thing. I enjoy it," Murad admitted to a Pakistani interrogator last year when asked why he wanted to kill so many Americans, according to a transcript read in court on Thursday. He went on to explain that "the United States is the first country in this world making trouble for . . . Muslims and for our people." He said that is why he was prepared to help put 12 bombs on U.S. aircraft that would blow up over the ocean in a two-day reign of terror meant to provoke an end to U.S. support for Israel. (Smith, J. 1996. New Devices May Foil Airline Security.)

Then there is Ahmed Yousef. Yousef is already known for his alleged role as the principal buyer of materials used in the 1994 bombing of the World Trade Center. Less well-known are the details of his alleged plot to join Murad, and Shah in blowing up a dozen U.S. jumbo jetliners carrying 4,000 people in January 1995, a plan code-named "Bojinga."

"At the heart of each device was a timer built by rewiring a commonly available Casio digital watch, which could be connected to a stabilized form of liquid nitroglycerin stored in a bottle ostensibly filled with contact lens solution. The stabilizer for the nitroglycerin looked like cotton, and Murad told interrogators that 'nobody can think that it's . . . explosive.'"

Murad said that even if the liquid nitroglycerin is put "in the X-ray, you will never" detect it, which several U.S. airplane security experts say is true. Even newer screening devices that can see through clothes would have difficulty ferreting out such a substance, according to these experts." (Smith, J. 1996. New Devices May Foil Airline Security.)


Dear Islam,

You certainly claim to believe in a peaceful Islam, however, this is just your opinion. Abdul Hakim Murad woud disagree with you about your beliefs in Islam, as would Richard Reid, and hundreds of others who have blown themselves and small children to bits. These 'martyrs' are seen as living in bliss according to the Qu'ran (whether you say so or not) and their families are quite rewarded for the atrocities.

Although you may say Abdul Hakim Murad is not a true Muslim, or that speaks for the Muslim world - I'm sure he would say the same about you.

Originally posted by devilwasp

I think thats rather ignorant....But thats only my thoughts....

i actually find it a bit more ignorant for someone to try to apologize for what Osama and others like him are doing, but at the same time trying to portray Jihad as if it was something good....or as if Osama and his crew are not using the small Jihad correctly....

It would be the same as if someone would try to bring up the good things about genocide, and just because some people are using it for evil means doesn't mean genocide is bad.

That's the way i see it, and as i can see there is still no response to my first question, what happens when someone tries to preach any other religion in an Islamic country, and more so in a country that is ruled by Sharia, or Islamic law.



[edit on 29-4-2005 by Muaddib]

Originally posted by vincere7

Dear Islam,

You certainly claim to believe in a peaceful Islam, however, this is just your opinion. Abdul Hakim Murad woud disagree with you about your beliefs in Islam, as would Richard Reid, and hundreds of others who have blown themselves and small children to bits. These 'martyrs' are seen as living in bliss according to the Qu'ran (whether you say so or not) and their families are quite rewarded for the atrocities.

Although you may say Abdul Hakim Murad is not a true Muslim, or that speaks for the Muslim world - I'm sure he would say the same about you.

That's because when radical muslims blow themselves up in the cause of Allah/Jihad they are not truly committing suicide, they are dying as warriors supposedly. Committing suicide with no reason is what is forbidden by Islam, but no when infidels are dying.

I also have no idea why Islam is saying that no wars are being fought by many radicals , when in fact there are several wars being fought by radicals against Christians and other religious and ethnic groups at this moment.

[edit on 29-4-2005 by Muaddib]

i think i need to clarify what i was trying to say in the following quote.

It would be the same as if someone would try to bring up the good things about genocide, and just because some people are using it for evil means doesn't mean genocide is bad.

It should read:

It would be the same as if someone would try to bring up, what this person would call the virtues of genocide, and if this person would argue that just because some people are using, or used genocide for evil means, doesn't mean genocide is bad.

[edit on 29-4-2005 by Muaddib]

not only is JIHAD not understood ,and improperly [ on porpose ? ] translated [ to decieve those who don't know better ! ]

so is ALLAHU AKBAR....the so-called translation of the latter , that us westerners are taught is skewed. [ just imagine, that a politician is explaining the meaning to you...aha..now you see the forked tongue ? ]

ALLAH KADIR = God is great , not the aforementioned phrase that every westerner thinks it means

even wikipedia is not all that clear about it, but does show the variations of meaning ;

en.wikipedia.org...


I got my translation from an egyptian now living in israel . [ beats the heck out of a CNN translation ]



I left out my translation on porpose...

Originally posted by toasted
ALLAH KADIR = God is great , not the aforementioned phrase that every westerner thinks it means

Allah akbar= allah is "big" which indirectly means great (big in his powers...)

Originally posted by Islam

The Smallest Jihad

It is to struggle by weapons your enemy.
Proof that It is the smallest: Prophet Muhammad said when he came back from a war: ((We came back from the smallest Jihad to the Biggest Jihad. The Jihad of the hawa (wrong desire) and nafs (the quarrel self).

Your smallest Jihad makes the strongest caos all over the world. Did you ever think about that?

Originally posted by Muaddib
..............
That's the way i see it, and as i can see there is still no response to my first question, what happens when someone tries to preach any other religion in an Islamic country, and more so in a country that is ruled by Sharia, or Islamic law.
[edit on 29-4-2005 by Muaddib]

I agree with what you say Muaddib-that justifying jihad is similar to justifying genocide; that is completely true I have read Islam's posts and his futile attempt to justify jihad . What kind of 'path' to god is through killing others no matter what others may have done to you?? Thats just ludicrous, demonic and satanic at best, maybe they could explain it as emotional anguish or some such crap but passing it off as religion is just a pathetic sham.
About your question Muaddib, what happens when you preach another religion in an Islamic country??- Simple if you are in a country like Saudi Arabia you would be first beaten up by the people on the road or any body who in passing gets their hands on you and later handed over to the authorities; any religious attire you are wearing will be ripped off you and burnt/destroyed infront of you, next you will be handed over to the religious police AKA 'muttawah' where they beat you continuously and lock you up in a 3feet by 4feet cell with not enough room even to lay flat on your back, next depending on your "worth"[this is measured as country, religion, social status, diplomatic connections if any etc.(An American Christian would not be treated as the same as an say Tibetan Buddhist)] they either extradite you to your respective country or detain you forever(i.e. force you to convert to Islam or kill you slowly by starvation!).
No this is not some exaggerated tale but this is what will actually happen, I know this for a fact as I've stayed in that cursed land for 5 full years.


[edit on 29-4-2005 by IAF101]

Originally posted by AdamJ
oh come on, can you really blow up a plane with your shoe?
id like to see it done.
[edit on 28-4-2005 by AdamJ]

Rather than wanting to see it done maybe you should go and look up something called pressurization of a plane, also look at the amount of force generated due to the explosion of 1gm of Ammonium nitrate, nitroglycerine, etc.
Heck you can make napalm with kerosene and Styrofoam!!. I won't say how but making high explosives is very very easy. Blowing up the side of a plane especially near the wing where all the fuel is stored is not damaging enough in your opinion to destroy the plane??
Having confessed your ignorance I think with some research should help you 'Deny Ignorance'


[edit on 29-4-2005 by IAF101]

Islam IS a very peaceful religion!



















If your a muslim..

Dear Blood Thorn:

1. I am Arabic and I speak Arabic and I didn’t hear of Burka, I think it is in Moroccan accent but I am sure it is not a formal Arabic.
2. Hijab is forced to wear only in Saudi Arabia and Iran and if you are Arabic you will know that.
.3 As I say again, if a sheikh says something that contradict clear Islamic teaching, then his saying will be dumped in the nearest garbage.

________________________________________


Dear Muaddib:

So if a person seeks protection and to hear the word of Allah, he is safe, meaning if he decides to accept islam. Isn't this exactly what some clerics were telling Osama that he should have given the US a chance to repent and accept Islam before he attacked?

Read the verse again paitently: “And if anyone of the Mushrikoon (polytheists, idolaters, pagans, disbelievers in the Oneness of Allah) seeks your protection then grant him protection, so that he may hear the Word of Allah (the Qur'an), and then escort him to where he can be secure, that is because they are men who know not.” [9:5]

Allah says “so that he may HEAR the Word of Allah “ NOT (so that he will BELIEVE in the word of Allah )

BTW, you did not anwser my previous question, about what happens when someone from another religion goes to an Islamic country to preach another religion instead of Islam.

That is Ok.

Proves is that

1. many Muslim countries that stayed under the Islamic government for centuries still have the churches, priests, etc.

2. In Syrian channel for example, there is a Christian programs in Sunday on the main channel. No sheikh is opposing that because that is the Christians’ rights as innocent citizens although they make less than 10% of Syrian people!

____________________________

Dear AdamJ:

Thank you for your passing by this thread.

And I hope as you hope too.
And may Allah bless noble British and noble Americans and guide Bush and Bleir and their followers.



___________________________________________

Dear Dallas:

Allah says in the Quran: “And the slaves of the Most Beneficent (Allah) are those who walk on the earth in humility and sedateness, and when the foolish address them (with bad words) they say Peace!.” [25:36]
Thus, PEACE!
__________________________________
Dear vincere7:

The hateness of Islam and Muslims is rooted in your heart and I don’t think this is a way to live.

You have to put on mind that there are 1.5 Billion Muslims and the followers of BinLaden are few thousands. So in which scale you can judge the 1.5 Billions because of some dirty rats hiding in Tora Bora ??????????

Again I invite you to read and know what ISLAM says about terrorism
iiie.net...

And again, if BinLaden and his worshippers are considered as leaders to Muslims, then WHY no Muslim out of tens of Millions in Europe and USA are following that fake god BinLaden command ????

Why the explosions are in Saudi Arabia, Egypt, and recently in Iraq ????????
__________________________________________
Dear Toasted:

Thank you for your valuble information.
Allahu Akbar.
Allah = Allah
-u = A short vowel suffix that added to the first noun in Arabic sentence.
Akbar = The biggest. The adjective is “Kabeer” and the biggest is “Akbar”. That is as “Kareem” which mean generous and the most generous is “Akram”.
Thus, Allahu Akbar = Allah Greatest = Allah is the Greatest
_________________________________________

What kind of 'path' to god is through killing others no matter what others may have done to you?? Thats just ludicrous, demonic and satanic at best, maybe they could explain it as emotional anguish or some such crap but passing it off as religion is just a pathetic sham.

Deat IAF 11
Would you please PROOF what you say ???
Would you please PROOF what you say ???
Would you please PROOF what you say ???

This is the whole Quran. Search and I challenge you to find that Allah say ((( 'path' to god is through killing others no matter what others may have done to you ])))
quran.nu...
Don’t let your hateness to Islam lead you to say something that has no proof except the lie media.

And again READ WHAT ISLAM SAY ABOUT TERRORISM
iiie.net...

It is really an irony to say what you just said!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
_________________________________________

Dear C0le

Thank you for your passing by.
God Bless you.

Islam, i am not claiming that there are no moderate Muslims, but you are ignoring what is actually happening in many Islamic countries and what is happening to the other minority religious groups.

Here are some examples of what is happening.

JOS, Nigeria (Compass) -- Nigeria came into the international limelight in the year 2000 as the country began a full year of democratic government following prolonged military rule. It also saw the rise of Islamic fundamentalism as several northern Nigerian states have moved to implement Islamic (sharia) law. The resulting Christian-Muslim conflicts have threatened to permanently divide Africa's most populous nation.

But the Islamic fundamentalist phenomenon did not emerge in Nigeria's religious landscape overnight.

Excerpted from.
www.worthynews.com...

The above is from Nigeria, let's see what is happening in Sudan...

Jihad in Sudan? What Jihad in Sudan?
by Robert Spencer
Posted Jul 29, 2004

Just in time to mark the tenth anniversary of the Rwandan genocide that it largely ignored, the human rights community is beginning to take notice of the genocide in Sudan. As welcome as this is, and as refreshing as it is that the New York Times and Washington Post have done extensive reporting on Darfur in recent weeks, few have noted that the tragedy of Darfur is actually the second Sudanese genocide of our age. The first killed over two million African Christians and animists in southern Sudan.

They may be forgiven for being slow on the uptake; after all, Darfur marks the third genocide in Africa that Kofi Annan is declining to notice: Rwanda, Sudan I and now Sudan II. Over 100,000 people have been killed in Darfur. By autumn the number of those who have been displaced or impoverished, or whose lives have been destroyed by the war in other ways, will most likely exceed three million. Yet Annan declared that he cannot consider it "genocide or ethnic cleansing yet."

There is another word that Annan has never uttered in connection with Sudan. For a decade Khartoum has waged what the regime itself calls a jihad against Christians and tribalists in the South. A 1992 fatwa issued by a group of pro-Khartoum Sudanese imams declared: "An insurgent who was previously a Muslim is now an apostate and a non-Muslim is a non-believer standing as a bulwark against the spread of Islam, and Islam has granted the freedom of killing both of them." This allowed for the murder of Christians and animists in the south; now it has been turned against the Muslims of Darfur, whose Islam doesn't measure up to Khartoum's hardline standards.

Excerpted from.
www.humaneventsonline.com...


Let's see some other sites where islamic sheikhs proclaim almost the same things you proclaim, and let's see some of the things they say.

This is the first thing that the Sheikh in this site claims, which is pretty much in accord to what you are saying.

After the testimony of Oneness of Allah swt and the Messengership of Muhammad (pbuh), with firm belief and True Faith, one has to perform the acts of worship as ordained by Islam. Among the obligatory acts of worship are offering the Salat (prayers), observing the Saum (fasts), paying the Zakat and performing the Hajj (pilgrimage to Makka). Besides these acts of worship, a Muslim is directed to abstain from evil deeds and to perform good deeds, so that he may achieve success in the Hereafter, as well as, in the life of this world.



But, as regards the reward and blessing, there is one deed which is very great in comparison to all the acts of worship and all the good deeds-and that is Jihad !



Jihad is regarded as the best thing, one can offer voluntarily. It is superior to nonobligatory prayers, fasting, Zakat, Umra and Hajj as mentioned in the Qur'an and the Ahadith of the Prophet(pbuh). The benefits of Jihad are of great extent and large in scope, while its effects are far-reaching and wide-spreading as regards Islam and the Muslims. For an individualMuslim, Jihad includes all acts of worship and all aspects of belief- thus bringing him greatest reward and vast blessings; and for the Muslim nation, Jihad provides all kinds of successes in respect of prosperity and dignity, victory and glory-thus bringing magnificence and splendour.

Now, let's continue reading and see what else the Sheikh has to say about Jihad.....

JIHAD IN THE QUR'AN AND SUNNA
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Praise be to Allah swt Who has ordained Al-Jihad (the holy fighting in Allah's Cause):



1. With the heart (intentions or feelings),



2. With the hand (weapons, etc.),



3. With the tongue (speeches, etc., in the Cause of Allah)



Allah has rewarded the one who performs it with lofty dwellings in the Gardens (of Paradise).



I testify that there is none who has the right to be worshipped but Allah (swt) Alone and He has no partners (with Him). I (also) testify that Muhammad (pbuh) is His slave and His Messenger, the one sent by Allah Law as a mercy for the 'Alameen (mankind and jinns); the one commanded by Allah (swt) to fight against AlMushrikun[l] (and all those who ascribe partners with Allah). He fought for Allah's Cause with all his power and ability-may Allah's Peace and Blessings be upon him, upon his followers and upon his companions who believed in him, and honoured him, helped him and followed the light (the Qur'an) and his .AsSunna (the legal ways, orders, acts of worship, statements, etc.) which was revealed to him...those who emigrated and fought in the Cause of Allah with their wealth and their lives, they were the supreme conquerors and the masters.



[1l Al-Mushrikun (polytheists, pagans, idolaters, and disbelievers in the Oneness of Allah and in His Messenger Muhammad (pbuh)

Excerpted from.
www.islamworld.net...


What this Sheikh is proclaiming is pretty much the same thing which began the first Muslim Jihad to spread Islam by the sword in the 7th century AD, and which latter became the reason for the Christian's own crusades to fight against what we now call radical Muslims back in the 700s up to the 1200s AD.

I don't see anything good coming from the small Jihad as you are trying to claim here. I see it merely as a way to disguise genocide agaisnt other religions, and to bring in one way or another Islam to the world.

BTW, to see from what website I was able to find the above website, here is the main page of the website. There are quite a few links there...

islamic-world.net...

Let's see some of the other actions caused by Jihad...

Egyptian Islamic Jihad
[Categories: Islamic terrorist organizations, Islamist groups]

The Egyptian Islamic Jihad (EIJ), also called the Islamic Jihad and the Jihad Group, is an Quick Facts about: Egypt
A republic in northeastern Africa known as the United Arab Republic until 1971; site of an ancient civilization that flourished from 2600 to 30 BCEgyptian Quick Facts about: Islam
The monotheistic religion of Muslims founded in Arabia in the 7th century and based on the teachings of Muhammad as laid down in the KoranIslamic group active since the late Quick Facts about: 1970s
The decade from 1970 to 19791970s with origins in the Quick Facts about: Muslim Brotherhood
Quick Summary not found for this subjectMuslim Brotherhood. It suffered setbacks as a result of numerous arrests of operatives worldwide, most recently in Quick Facts about: Lebanon
An Asian republic at east end of MediterraneanLebanon and Quick Facts about: Yemen
A republic on the southwestern shores of the Arabian Peninsula on the Indian Ocean; formed in 1990Yemen. The organization's primary goals are to overthrow the Egyptian Government and replace it with an Islamic state and to attack Quick Facts about: United States
North American republic containing 50 states - 48 conterminous states in North America plus Alaska in northwest North America and the Hawaiian Islands in the Pacific Ocean; achieved independence in 1776United States and Quick Facts about: Israel
Jewish republic in southwestern Asia at eastern end of Mediterranean; formerly part of PalestineIsraeli interests in Egypt and abroad.

ActivitiesThe organization specializes in armed attacks against high-level Egyptian Government personnel, including cabinet ministers, and car-bombings against official US and Egyptian facilities. The original Jihad was responsible for the assassination in 1981 of Egyptian President Quick Facts about: Anwar Sadat
Egyptian statesman who (as president of Egypt) negotiated a peace treaty with Menachem Begin (then prime minister of Israel) (1918-1981)Anwar Sadat. It also claimed responsibility for the attempted assassinations of Interior Minister Hassan al-Alfi in August 1993 and Prime Minister Atef Sedky in November 1993. Egyptian Jihad and rival armed group Jemaah Islamiya launched a wave of violence against Egypt's secular government in 1992, a campaign they only abandoned at the end of the decade. Nearly 1300 people died in the unrest, including policemen, and
government officials, foreign tourists and Egyptian Christians. It is responsible for the Egyptian Embassy bombing in Quick Facts about: Islamabad
The capital of Pakistan in the north on a plateau; the site was chosen in 1959Islamabad, Quick Facts about: Pakistan
A Muslim republic that occupies the heartland of ancient south Asian civilization in the Indus River valley; formerly part of India; achieved independence from the United Kingdom in 1947Pakistan in 1995; in 1998, a planned attack against the US Embassy in Quick Facts about: Albania
A republic in southeastern Europe on the Adriatic coast of the Balkan PeninsulaAlbania was thwarted.

Excerpted from.
www.absoluteastronomy.com...


Let's see some of the other actions done by Jihadist in the name of Allah.

October 14, 2004
Exodus of Iraqi Christians in full flood as targeted killings grow
We have covered the persecution of Iraqi Christians for many months, as jihadists continue to exert their influence and reassert the depredations of dhimmitude. From The Independent, with thanks to Kemaste:

It was midnight in Baghdad, not a time to be out in this place of violence. But the workers from the Baghdad Hunting Club had almost made it back home through the deserted streets when the tyres of their Kia minibus were shredded by a burst of gunfire.
The shots had come from a black Opel saloon which had tracked them from the club - a prestigious haunt of Iraq's new rich - after finishing the late shift. Four men, their faces covered by keffiyehs, slid open the door of the minibus and sprayed the occupants with Kalashnikov fire.

Their targets, seven Christians, were killed almost instantly. Two others were injured but survived. The dead were all breadwinners for their families in the close-knit Christian community in the suburb of al-Doura. These families now want to leave Iraq, joining the exodus of thousands of their co-religionists since the war.

Excerpted from.
www.jihadwatch.org...

This was happening in Iraq even when Saddam was in power, back then it was Saddam's plan to either coerce or force into exile the Assyrian Christian minorities which are the original people who lived in Iraq and parts of Iran. I have presented links about this in past threads.

Whenever someone claims that Jihad does not mean the spread of islam by force i just have to remember the first thing that the newly converted Muslims did in the 7th Century AD, and even what is happening right now in many places around the world. There are many conflicts in the world and radical Muslims are at the forefront of many of these conflicts and wars. it is not just a few thousands that think like Osama and are doing what Muhammed did back in the middle ages, even now millions of radicals are fighting like we were still in the middle ages.

I found the following site in which a history of Jihad is given and how it was that the first Jihad began.

This early jihad became the seed of greater ones to follow (Watt, 108-9):

This transformation of the nomadic razzia has wider implications than are apparent from the English translations used. The word translated "strive" is jahada, and the corresponding verbal noun is jihad or "striving" which came in the course of time to have the technical meaning of "holy war." The change from the razzia to the jihad may seem to be no more than a change of name, the giving of an aura of religion to what was essentially the same activity. Yet this is not so. There was a change in the activity which came to be of the utmost importance as time went on. A razzia was the action of a tribe against another tribe. Even if two tribes were very friendly, their friendship might cool, and in a few years a razzia might be possible. Jihad, however, was the action of a religious community against non-members of the community, and the community was expanding. If members of the pagan tribes raided by the Muslims professed Islam, they at once became exempt from further Muslim raids. Consequently, as the Islamic community grew, the raiding propensities of the Muslims had to be directed ever further outwards. It was this "religious" character of the jihad which channelled the energies of the Arabs in such a way that in less than a century they had created an empire which stretched from the Atlantic and the Pyrenees in the West to the Oxus and the Punjab in the East. It seems certain that without the conception of the jihad that expansion would not have happened. (emphasis added)
During these raids, which had nothing to do with self-defense, the first arrow was shot, the first blood shed, and the first man killed in the name of Islam (Ibn Ishaq, 416-425).

It was common in those days for poets to compose songs celebrating the achievements and victories of the tribe. These poets were thought to be possessed with spiritual power, and their verse was taken quite seriously by other tribes as well as their own.

After the early raid in which the first arrow was shot, the following verses were composed by the shooter (Ibn Ishaq, 418):

Has the news reached the apostle of God
That I protected my companions with my arrows?
By them I defended their vanguard
In rough ground and plain.
No archer who shoots an arrow at the enemy
Will be counted before me, O apostle of God.
'Twas because thy religion is true
Thou hast brought what is just and truthful.
By it the believers are saved
And unbelievers recompensed at the last.
Clearly we have passed from the raid as an ecomonic expedient to the raid as striking a blow for the new faith.

Excerpted from.
www.peacewithrealism.org...



[edit on 1-5-2005 by Muaddib]

Originally posted by islam

What kind of 'path' to god is through killing others no matter what others may have done to you?? Thats just ludicrous, demonic and satanic at best, maybe they could explain it as emotional anguish or some such crap but passing it off as religion is just a pathetic sham.

Deat IAF 101
Would you please PROOF what you say ???

This is the whole Quran. Search and I challenge you to find that Allah say ((( 'path' to god is through killing others no matter what others may have done to you ])))

First, Do you like Apples??
Jihad in the Quran
1.
Surah 61:4 "Truly Allah loves those who fight in His Cause in battle array, as if they were a solid cemented structure,"
2.
Surah 2:190-193 "Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you but do not transgress limits...And slay them wherever ye catch them. And turn them out from where they have turned you out; for persecution is worse than slaughter; But fight them not at the sacred Mosque unless they first fight you there; But if they fight you, slay them. Such is the reward of those who reject faith. But if they cease, Allah is oft-forgiving, Most Merciful. And fight them on until there is no more persecution. And the religion becomes Allah's. But if they cease, Let there be no hostility except to those who practice oppression"
3.
Surah 9:38-39 "O ye who believe! What is the matter with you, that, when ye are asked to go forth in the cause of Allah, ye cling heavily to the earth? Do ye prefer the life of this world to the Hereafter? But little is the comfort of this life, as compared with the Hereafter. Unless ye go forth, He will punish you with a grievous penalty, and put others in your place; but Him ye would not harm in the least. For Allah hath power over all things. Unless ye go forth, He will punish you with a grievous penalty, and put others in your place; but Him ye would not harm in the least. For Allah hath power over all things,"
4.
Surah 8:59-70 "Their state is like that of the people of Pharaoh, and of those before them who treated their Lord's signs as lies. We therefore destroy them in their sins, and We drowned the people of Pharaoh; for they were all doers of wrong. The worst beasts truly in the sight of God are the thankless who will not believe; They with whom thou hast leagued, and who are ever breaking their league, and who fear not God! If thou take them in war, then, by the example of their fate, scatter those who shall follow them - that they may be warned: Or if thou fear treachery from any people, throw back their treaty to them as thou fairly mayest, for God loveth not the treacherous. And think not that the infidels shall escape Us! The shall not weaken God....O Prophet! stir up the faithful to the fight. Twenty of you who stand firm shall vanquish two hundred: and if there be an hundred of you they shall vanquish a thousand of the infidels, for they are a people devoid of understanding....No prophet hath been enabled to take captives until he had made great slaughter in the earth. Ye desire the passing fruitions of this world, but God desireth the next life for you. And God is mighty and wise.
5.
Sura 9:5 "And when the sacred months are passed, kill those who join other gods with God wherever ye shall find them; and seize them, besiege them, and lay wait for them with every kind of ambush: but if they shall convert, and observe prayer, and pay the obligatory alms, then let them go their way, for God is gracious, merciful.
6.
Sura 9:12 "But if, after alliance made, they break their oaths and revile your religion, then do battle with the ring-leaders of infidelity - for no oaths are binding with them - that they may desist. What! will ye not fight against those Meccans who have broken their oaths and aimed to expel your Apostle, and attacked you first? Will ye dread them? God is more worthy of your fear, if ye are believers! So make war on them: By your hands will God chastise them, and will put them to shame, and will give you victory over them, and will heal the bosoms of a people who believe;"
7.
Sura 9:30 "Make war upon such of those to whom the Scriptures have been given as believe not in God, or in the Last Day, and who forbid not that which God and His Apostle have forbidden, and who profess not the profession of the truth, until they pay tribute out of hand, and they be humbled. The Jews say, "Ezra is a son of God"; and the Christians say, "The Messiah is a son of God." Such the sayings in their mouths! They resemble the saying of the infidels of old! God do battle with them! How are they misguided? They take their teachers, and their monks, and the Messiah, son of Mary, for lords besides God, though bidden to worship one God only. There is no God but He! Far from His glory be what they associate with Him! Fain would they put out God's light with their mouths: but God only desireth to perfect His light, albeit the infidels abhor it. He it is who hath sent His Apostle with the guidance and a religion of the truth, that He may make it victorious over every other religion, albeit they who assign partners to God be averse from it.
8.
Sura 61:9 -He it is Who has sent His Messenger (Muhammad ) with guidance and the religion of truth (Islamic Monotheism) to make it victorious over all (other) religions even though the mushrikun (polytheists, pagans, idolaters, and disbelievers in the Oneness of Allah and in His Messenger Muhammed) hate (it).
Also see Sura 61 and Sura 4....
This is just in the Quran, I can show you such agression in the Hadith too.
By the way your site was very helpfull! Also check this out:www.contenderministries.org...

Now, how do you like them apples!??


[edit on 4-5-2005 by IAF101]

Originally posted by Muaddib
i actually find it a bit more ignorant for someone to try to apologize for what Osama and others like him are doing, but at the same time trying to portray Jihad as if it was something good....or as if Osama and his crew are not using the small Jihad correctly....

Why?
He may be right.
My friend's dad got back from vegas, a women over there out of the blue apologised to him that we had to send our soldiers over there but it was right.

It would be the same as if someone would try to bring up the good things about genocide, and just because some people are using it for evil means doesn't mean genocide is bad.

No thats another subject all together.

That's the way i see it, and as i can see there is still no response to my first question, what happens when someone tries to preach any other religion in an Islamic country, and more so in a country that is ruled by Sharia, or Islamic law.
[edit on 29-4-2005 by Muaddib]

What happens?
They are probably not liked by the rulers but rarely ever threatned.

Originally posted by devilwasp

Why?
He may be right.
My friend's dad got back from vegas, a women over there out of the blue apologised to him that we had to send our soldiers over there but it was right.

I have no idea what you are trying to say with the above.

Originally posted by Muaddib
It would be the same as if someone would try to bring up the good things about genocide, and just because some people are using it for evil means doesn't mean genocide is bad.

Originally posted by devilwasp
No thats another subject all together.

Oh really? so the murder of millions of people in various contries in the world by Jihad is not genocide?....

How exactly is it different?...

That's the way i see it, and as i can see there is still no response to my first question, what happens when someone tries to preach any other religion in an Islamic country, and more so in a country that is ruled by Sharia, or Islamic law.
[edit on 29-4-2005 by Muaddib]

Originally posted by devilwasp
What happens?
They are probably not liked by the rulers but rarely ever threatned.

How in the world do you know this?... I already gave some links to what is happening to Christians and other minority religious groups in islamic countries that have islamic law or Sharia.... evidence which goes completly against what you are saying.


[edit on 5-5-2005 by Muaddib]

Take your filthy backwards ass religion and shove it up your ass. I think americans should get real tough and #en slaughter 1000 muslims for every christain they kill.

Truth is all religions are bull# lies and conjecture. Not a single person who ever lived or will ever live will ever come close to the mind of god.

Islam, you say you have no idea of this crusader I speak of. Funny you dumbass they are the ones that came from europe and tried to take over the holy land in the name of christianity. You have no idea of this? Then why the hell are you here if you fail to comprehend basic history?

I still say your a fraud.

Do I care? No. I could give a rats ass.

Give war a chance - peace is an illusion - and human rights are for the weak.

Originally posted by JohnM
Take your filthy backwards ass religion and shove it up your ass. I think americans should get real tough and #en slaughter 1000 muslims for every christain they kill.

Truth is all religions are bull# lies and conjecture. Not a single person who ever lived or will ever live will ever come close to the mind of god.

Islam, you say you have no idea of this crusader I speak of. Funny you dumbass they are the ones that came from europe and tried to take over the holy land in the name of christianity. You have no idea of this? Then why the hell are you here if you fail to comprehend basic history?

I still say your a fraud.

Do I care? No. I could give a rats ass.

Give war a chance - peace is an illusion - and human rights are for the weak.

Oh my~ I see I arrived back at this thread just in time to catch the "intelligence brigade" at work! Not!