Did Hynek & Vallée Play a Part in Driving Paul Bennewitz Insane?

In Vallee's "Forbidden Science 4: The Spring Hill Chronicles, basically his journal from 1990-2000 he'd met twice with bennewitz at Pb's home (IIRC in 1990)

by then Pb was already considerably paranoid. He showed Vallee pictures that did not strike Vallee as anything indicative of alien craft. It did appear that originally Pb had accessed legitimate transmissions from Kirkland. Hynek's involvement was that he was pressured to give Pb the new computer from the AF it's purpose was to change the original signals from Kirkland into random phrases from "the aliens". The AF was allegedly "helping" bennewitz.

That was the guise anyway.
The computer was given to Hynek "as is" no mention or indication who did the programing. As Vallee's journal is a tight day by day accounting of his activities I'm not seeing where he had time to mess with it.

It's a little disturbing to assert Vallee was involved actively participating in disinformation. Through all of his writing he expresses great dismay at the travesty of the UFO circus, false information, myth believed as fact. It's also disturbing
bennewitz is NOT given his due as a inventor of tech via Thunder Scientific, instead remembered as just a paranoid patsy of ufology.

I'll apologize now, the book's out in the car in the rain. I'll come back to correct this in the AM if needed with direct quotes & page numbers.

Disclaimer:
I'm NOT a Vallee groupie. I am very vocal in my disgust of "why are we still listening to ANY of the usual suspects regarding ufo/uap's? Just old white guys still playing old white guy games". best case scenario we'll outlive the Putoff's, Green's, Alexanders, Doty's, Greers an possibly FINALLY make some progress with their replacements.
Not a fan either of dissing Vallee on his own exploration of the "Phenomena". Fugal's doing it, blind frog ranch is doing
it we all do it as well or we wouldn't be in this thread.

a reply to: Caver78


Thanks for the reminder! I read that book but do not recall Vallee talking to PB-- likely, I just forgot it. But a lot is there. Often though, I sort of speed read and might have missed it.

It’s on pages 50-51, 52, 59, and on pg. 63 Vallee records PB at one point tells him he thought Leo Sprinkle was a CIA agent! And walked around with guns on his hip when they met again for another Myrna Hansen session. That’s why I imagine later he got another hypnotist to deal with Hansen.

A footnote on pg. 52 Vallee speaks of the Hynek PB contact over that computer and says PB thought that the aliens modified the computer so he could communicate with them.

Vallee says the pictures PB showed him didn't look like ufos at all to him.

This, according to JV, happened in 1990.

a reply to: Caver78

...It's a little disturbing to assert Vallee was involved actively participating in disinformation. Through all of his writing he expresses great dismay at the travesty of the UFO circus, false information, myth believed as fact....

Yes, it's nothing more than hearsay. These assertions come from one man, Bill Moore. Who readily admitted to becoming an asset of the US intelligence services. All in his own attempts to peel away a layer or two of UFO secrecy. Instead, he revealed the tricks and deception employed against a private citizen.

Even if Vallee and Hynek were briefly involved, they could have little foresight as to events that would follow. However, Vallee was involved on negotiations with MUFON on behalf of BAASS ino2009. Where the 'sponsor' (the US government) was not revealed to MUFON. He mixes in the circles Bill Moore did. I don't think Hynek or Vallee were ever interested in anything more than getting to the bottom of a profound mystery. But once you choose to play their game, you open yourself up to being played yourself.

... It's also disturbing bennewitz is NOT given his due as a inventor of tech via Thunder Scientific, instead remembered as just a paranoid patsy of ufology.

Sadly, Paul was already showing signs of mental deterioration before the Air Force were even involved. If he'd have received the proper care at the right time, it all could have been a different story. But the paranoia of Uncle Sam fuelled the paranoia of Paul Bennewitz.

a reply to: mirageman

But once you choose to play their game, you open yourself up to being played yourself.

This is so true

Just associating with them, you may do things like Moore did and not even think what you’re doing is bad or wrong.
You get wrapped up in friendship then your deeds or favors for them become fair-seeming to you when you do questionable things for your “friends.” which may be bad for ufology.

One thing I noticed in all of this is that many of the Ufologists Doty got to know say he was a nice guy--Oh really.

Peaceinouz & Mirageman Thanks for being kind an not running me out on a rail!

Ufology isn't my forte' especially when it goes micro picking at who said what when an who got caught lying about what.
Even back in the 70's it seemed a colossal waste of time when instead we should have been nailing down what we did have which was the more concrete, trace evidence.

Yes the trace evidence "seemingly" usually points to things we can manufacture ourselves, but that itself is a answer. Just one nobody "believes" or wanted.

Where I say "colossal waste of time" that in NO WAY is dismissive of all the hard work people like Issac Koi & John Greenwald have done. My issue with it is sure! You followed the trail, you caught someone out, end of trail.
The Doty's et al move right onto another scam/line of bs, wash rinse repeat. None of them have faced any real consequences for lying to the public it's been the opposite. They continue on TV & conferences being pimped as "authorities" in Ufology. We really need to finally just pull the plug on them & start over.

It was personally shocking to grasp that 99% of everything since 1940 has been a hoax.
Conspiracies I thought were massive were nothing more than individuals & factions doing whatever was necessary to keep the cash flowing. It was saddening to grasp the entire US military & alphabet agencies couldn't get a unified cohesive plan to screw us over put together. Frankly it makes us look incompetent.

As far as Vallee/NIDS/bigelow/MUFON Vallee was in the 90's working as a representative for large money funds investing in science tech start-ups & internet start-ups. Of course what bigelow wanted was right up his alley. Having Vallee assist with MUFON since he had the reputation of being a ufo researcher just made things easier. It doesn't make him compromised or nefarious tho. Yes Vallee ended up finally on the NIDS board of Directors however he resisted for a long time an once there found it a massive waste of time.

bigelow has been laser-focused on human consciousness for DECADES.
(read & re-read that till your eyes bleed)
He directed the bulk of his funding to that purpose NOT to UFO research. The US didn't want to collect ufo info after blue book so it was a opportune time for bigelow to purchase MUFON and become the information gatekeeper. In practical terms it served him till it didn't an he closed NIDS down divesting himself of the Sherman Ranch.

The question should be "Did bigelow learn anything from ufo reports which were in reality our own black projects as witnessed by civilians to aid his aerospace business??"

What amazes me in all of this chapter is the utter cluelessness or weakness of these ufologists.
Doty is an unreliable liar, IC deceiver, and disinformation agent, yet these ufologists, probably due to a lack of any reality in their findings, or desperation just to get information, always seem to defer to Doty, thereby giving him credibility.

The so-called anti-government ufologist Steven Greer actually put him in a documentary as if he can be believed whatever he says! Why? Because Doty actually still goes around claiming that he knows there are aliens and ufos.
Who the f___ would believe anything he says?!

Sure, it's no problem understanding the guy was doing his job and should not be demonized entirely; nevertheless, that shouldn’t make these ufologists defer to him and give him any credence and platform to spread more of his deceptions.

His job is to deceive you, lie to you, and just because he’s retired doesn’t mean he’s really retired. The IC is like the mafia. You never leave them, even in retirement.

These guys talk to him, and it amazes me that they even do that and give him the f______ time of day, let alone credibility is ridiculous and an indictment of this field of ufology.

a reply to: Caver78

Peaceinouz & Mirageman Thanks for being kind an not running me out on a rail!

Your ideas and opinions are as worthy and important as mine or anyone.

On this subject, we're all on the same level. Groping in the dark.

a reply to: peaceinoutz

"Groping in the dark" is funny.
Every time I see a witness describe "I saw this light in the sky and it moved faster than a plane!! it did things
that no airplane can do then it VANISHED!!"

Reminds me of a book on how to accurately identify raptors as a companion book for"How to identify birds" by Audubon. Its subtitle was "What's that speck in the sky???"
"I saw a light in sky and it moved funny!!"
Yep...we are definitely groping!! and doing it badly to boot!!!

I guarantee if I ever see a dot of light in the sky I will identify as OMG!!! I just saw a prehistoric Firefly. They aren't extinct!! before I run with the herd screaming ALIENS!!!! If I'm going to be labeled as a UFO nutjob I might as well shoot the moon & give them some authentic crayzeee.

a reply to: Caver78

www.youtube.com...

www.youtube.com...

Check these two videos out---they're free. I think they're pretty good---no lights in the sky but tangible stuff.

Some of the Roswell talk I don’t like, but overall, it's about the best they can do.

I never liked the lights in the sky either, kind of week.

a reply to: Caver78

What happened back in the 80s and 90s (at least Stateside) was a complete change in ufology. Towards a more sinister narrative of abductions, underground bases, MJ12 and the re-invention of Roswell. Mainly by a small group of people.

Doty, conned Linda Moulton Howe around the same time he was manipulating Bennewitz. But instead of realizing it and cutting her losses, she joined forces with him to become a muck spreader and make $$$. Even stealing art work and stamping her own copyright on it!!! (Yes I can prove it).

We also had the madness of John Lear, and his BS. He always sounded insane to me. But is for some reason revered for his wild stories. Or Knapp, who cultivated the "I bleev Bob Lazar" crowd. Then the Bigelow mob arrived and a generation later TTSA, Tom and Zondo appeared. The links between them all are close and the mythology they created still lingers. Because they are still pushing it and people continue to want to believe it.

But they've proved nothing.

a reply to: peaceinoutz

James Fox is a good filmmaker. So what I'd say is, although there's nothing really new to me in them, that those two movies are a decent introduction for newbies and a couple of hours of entertainment. But he's always seemed rather credulous or merely chasing ufo dollars.

a reply to: mirageman

Doty, conned Linda Moulton Howe around the same time he was manipulating Bennewitz. But instead of realizing it and cutting her losses, she joined forces with him to become a muck spreader and make $$$. Even stealing art work and stamping her own copyright on it!!! (Yes I can prove it).

Yeah, that’s what I call, the Roswell slides type ufologist.

The ones who, rather than nix Doty, after all he did to damage ufology, get nearer to him. They get near him because they know he has crazy hoaxed-up garbage they can use. Goes to show you what their real interests lay-- in themselves and their ufotainment careers.

We also had the madness of John Lear, and his BS. He always sounded insane to me. But is for some reason revered for his wild stories. Or Knapp, who cultivated the "I bleev Bob Lazar" crowd. Then the Bigelow mob arrived and a generation later TTSA, Tom and Zondo appeared. The links between them all are close and the mythology they created still lingers. Because they are still pushing it and people continue to want to believe it.

In the book, X-Descending Lear admitted to the author he hoaxed a UFO story, so the author nixed him for good.
Lear, I think maybe was an IC disinformation plant sent in to bolster all that madness going on through PB. Though in the same book the author says when Lear visited PB( that must have been some meeting! ) something he said to PB sent him into permanent seclusion. Maybe PB finally met someone who had weirder ideas than himself.

a reply to: Caver78

It's a little disturbing to assert Vallee was involved actively participating in disinformation

Why? Vallee serves perfectly the purposes of those who wish to keep the curious away from secret military programs; for this purpose, it is enough to formulate an esoteric theory according to which aliens come from hidden dimensions and are ethereal beings.

This is the only way to stop thinking about secret aircraft and advanced military systems.

If one does not want the populace to wonder why the Pope lives in a palace, it is enough to talk to them about angels and the Lord Kingdom. And if you want the populace to stop wondering whether the UFOs are secret military aircrafts, better to talk to them about interdimensional beings.

That is what makes the guy a disinformation agent.

a reply to: Direne

Love the different perspective!

Not going to "go to bat" for Vallee.
Whatever his alleged personal ties to the IC " may" have been, the pubishing of his personal journal takes us back to the origins of some of the WORST crap that makes up 99% of our current UFO understandings. I appreciate the history he covered because it makes great reference material. (Forbidden Science 4)

The youngsters just now getting into the UFO topic DON'T have a clue about all the original background material.
It suk's when you realize the first thing they're going to know about is Tom Delonge an "To The Stars", video's of CGI craft & YouTubes. Even if the Noob's google, too many things get scrubbed off the internet an they won't even have the names needed to do a decent search. Yes we have public libraries to preserve hard copies of info, but when was the last time you saw any young adults there? It's all Grandma's & grandkids!!!

These people get trapped in thinking they are getting closer to the truth by liaising and agreeing to work with intel agents.

Hynek claimed he didn't wish to ruffle feathers while part of Blue Book. That way he could bide his time while he had access to the data the military had. But as early as 1953 the 4602nd Air Intelligence Squadron was being passed any UFO reports considered to be of national security interest. Blue Book was ignored in such cases.

I would guess Vallee, his close associate, thought the same way. But 50-60 years later he's been dieting on far too much alphabet soup and not got very far at all, has he?

So he's made up a bunch of unfalsifiable theories. Which places him as deep thinking intellectual on the subject. Not because he necessarily has any evidence, but because he doesn't want to look like an idiot who wasted 60 years of his life in ufology and achieved nothing.

All the while the curse of Phil Klass is growing ever closer.

THE LAST WILL AND TESTAMENT OF PHILIP J. KLASS

To ufologists who publicly criticize me, ... or who even think unkind thoughts about me in private, I do hereby leave and bequeath:

THE UFO CURSE: No matter how long you live, you will never know any more about UFOs than you know today. You will never know any more about what UFOs really are, or where they come from. You will never know any more about what the U.S. Government really knows about UFOs than you know today. As you lie on your own death-bed you will be as mystified about UFOs as you are today. And you will remember this curse.

a reply to: mirageman

In the 90s was when Vallee really got close to the IC ufo spooks---he goes over a meeting he had with some of them, including John Alexander too, I think, and less-known spook-associated ufo people, and they came up that none of them knew about any secret government programs to tackle the ufo mystery. So, unless they were lying, all the hoopla about SAPs and the government disclosure is bogus.

Also, just yesterday, I watched Ancient Aliens and they were expounding on the importance of ATTIP and Knapp and others among the believers gleefully saying we told you so when the 2021 DoD admitted that they don’t know what ufos are and thinking, then what was that 1953 public statement by General John A. Samford.



The US government ALWAYS said they didn’t know what the unknowns were.
So, these ufotainment people are just talking a bunch of nonsense that there is a new disclosure going on.

So, the US government says the same thing in 2021 as they said in 1953! And they call that disclosure!

One thing stands out to me regarding Vallee's history.

If one reads Forbidden Science 4, he testifies to the fact that he, Hal Puthoff, Kit Green, and John Alexander somewhat were skulking around in the UFO milieu in the ’80s and ’90s in the heyday of Ufology when most of the exciting things were going down, searching to find the UFO secret group or groups within the Pentagon.

Now, if this can be believed, and it’s no evidence it isn’t an accurate telling by Vallee, then it’s clear that the secret stuff if it exists it’s in the Pentagon and NOT in the files of the CIA, in which Kit Green was the head of the spooky section for a while, and according to Forbidden Science 4, he had a CIA authority to search for secret stuff going on within the US government.

Therefore, the idea that it’s the DoD with the secrets, if any, is accurate.

Green tells many times about his closeness to these Pentagon secret groups where he would get close but be ultimately forbidden from entering the Pentagon hidden ufo cabal.
Interesting…

As for the question of this thread, it appears there is no credible evidence against Vallee. Because he met PB for the first time in 1990, then he couldn’t have been with Hynek when he gave that computer to PB. Therefore he could only have been involved remotely.

The evidence against him and even Hynek is unreliable and depends on only Bill Moore, which to me isn’t a credible witness, and Hynek isn’t here to defend himself.

We base this acquisition on the fact that number one, Vallee was a software computer Guru and Hynek’s henchman-- therefore, if Hynek gave PB a computer on the q.t... well, it stands to reason Vallee helped him. This is highly circumstantial, at best. The other evidence is even more circumstantial than this; therefore, Vallee, according to the evidence, should be exonerated.

Though this and the above are true if we have accurate information and not any misinformation behind this evidence.

a reply to: peaceinoutz

....If one reads Forbidden Science 4, he testifies to the fact that he, Hal Puthoff, Kit Green, and John Alexander somewhat were skulking around in the UFO milieu in the ’80s and ’90s....searching to find the UFO secret group or groups within the Pentagon.... Green tells many times about his closeness to these Pentagon secret groups where he would get close but be ultimately forbidden from entering the Pentagon hidden ufo cabal. Interesting…

I think there's also a possibility that these gentlemen were 'played' too. We don't really know what the 'UFO secret group' is, what real knowledge is held, nor whether it even exists as a 'UFO group' at all. A psy-op unit designed to counter foreign intelligence gathering may well have been employed when a bunch of UFO nuts inside the government started snooping around. No matter how well-educated and clever any of us are, we are all susceptible to being influenced.

....As for the question of this thread, it appears there is no credible evidence against Vallee. Because he met PB for the first time in 1990, then he couldn’t have been with Hynek when he gave that computer to PB. Therefore he could only have been involved remotely.

Hynek can't respond, he's been long gone. PB is not here to confirm when he first met Vallee, either. So can we believe Vallee?

This all comes down to whether Bill Moore was lying.

If he was telling the truth than their involvement was far less than Doty's, the Air Force and Moore himself. What the released Air Force reports don't mention are the photos and film that PB possessed and showed to their officers. He was already in a fragile mental state and if he'd have released these to public UFO groups then they could have easily ended up on the other side of the Iron Curtain too. Vallee 'might' have been asked to program a computer a certain way to prevent a 'national security risk'. Hynek might have been asked to deliver it to add an air of authenticity while also believing that PB was a 'concern'. Neither of them knowing the full story nor being able to predict the future.

If Moore was lying then there is no case to answer for either man.

So, although it's only my opinion, I don't think you can place any degree of blame on either Hynek or Vallee for sending PB insane even if they were involved.

However, if they weren't then I don't understand Moore's motivation for lying unless he had a personal axe to grind somewhere.

a reply to: mirageman

I think there's also a possibility that these gentlemen were 'played' too. We don't really know what the 'UFO secret group' is, what real knowledge is held, nor whether it even exists as a 'UFO group' at all. A psy-op unit designed to counter foreign intelligence gathering may well have been employed when a bunch of UFO nuts inside the government started snooping around. No matter how well-educated and clever any of us are, we are all susceptible to being influenced.

That's why I wrote this at the bottom. Sure, we never know 100 percent whether we're reading misinformation for these government and associated people.

Though this and the above are true if we have accurate information and not any misinformation behind this evidence.

However, if they weren't then I don't understand Moore's motivation for lying unless he had a personal axe to grind somewhere.

His motivation could have been to add other well-known ufologists to this caper so that he wasn't the only low-dog ufologist traitor in this affair.

If memory serves, he said openly there were other ufologists under the IC influence like himself, though he didn't mention any names.

a reply to: peaceinoutz

Nascar has nothing that matches the speed of the circles in ufology. The more you dig the more "the spin".
The He said/She said brick wall is splattered with good people who naively thought "they could get to the bottom of the UFO truth".

The crayzeee is so pervasive that Vallee was surprised that Hal Puttofff & Kit Green didn't know they were both
working in the same group/Org at one point!! Even insiders can't escape from the curse of secrecy. When the insiders
never get straight answers between themselves it doesn't leave much hope for us "normals".

The only way out of this UFO Groundhog Day is to start digging from a different starting/data point.
Every time we look back thru Ufology's history it ends up being a epic circle jerk an we end up back at
He Said/She said ,still knowing squat for all the time & effort.

As much as I'd love to take the easy way out drinking the current Kool-aide it bothers me there is something going on all pervasive enough to keep ALL People across the board clinging to secrecy whether or not they are in the IC, witnesses, military or just regular folk.