Vegan mom gets life in prison for starvation death of 18-month-old son

a reply to: JIMC5499

I usually do. But when one starts claiming my belief in not hurting animals is a cult, im delusional, and starts citing typical anti-vegan notions (veggie crops for humans hurt more animals than livestock productions) I get defensive.

I believe the system does need to be changed. But the only real way to change that is through people making their own choice.

Of course you're free to make your choice. Im arguing mostly against the typical anti-vegan responses.

a reply to: CptGreenTea

I have to agree with you. You have made an informed decision and that's your right.

Veganism is not the problem here. The vast majority of vegans live health lives, as do their children.

The problem here is child neglect. Simple cruelty through neglect. Were there mitigating circumstances, like a mental illness, which should have been a red flag for the US equivalent of "social services"? Who know. Also, do we care? Only one place for people who neglect children.

originally posted by: CptGreenTea
a reply to: tanstaafl

Sure, large agriculture affects animals .

Who do you think most of those crops are for?

Most of it goes to livestock feed.

Care to cite a reliable source (other than 'Vegan News Today')? Talk about mental gymnastics. That claim, like most from the vegan propaganda machine - is pure BS

And nothing you said justifies factory farming.

I'm not trying to justify factory farming. If you've read anything from me on this subject, you'd know that I was very much in favor of regenerative farming/animal husbandry.

Keep spreading your anti-vegan propaganda though. We vegans have heard it all before and its been refuted a million times.

Refuted? Only in your dreams. Ignorance is bliss, as they say.

Vegans just want to reduce animal suffering.

So do I. As I said before, raising and eating large ruminant animals is far more humane and compassionate than large agricultural concerns.

What are you fighting for? Your taste buds. Inventing reasons why you HAVE to eat meat and demonizing those who want to change the system.

On the contrary, I'm fighting for everyone's Right to true, vital, optimal health, wellness and longevity by learning about what constitutes the proper human diet, which just happens to be the meat and fat from large ruminant animals.

I didn't make us this way. I'm simply acknowledging reality, and taking advantage of this knowledge to achieve vital, optimal health, wellness and longevity for myself and my family - and yes, informing others so they can make informed decisions for their own health and that of their families.

a reply to: CptGreenTea

It is a belief system. You admit it yourself - morally wrong and unjustified... That is religious speak, not dietary speak. You are getting into issues of good/evil and moral and spiritual purity.

Execute her.

a reply to: tanstaafl

Actually ruminant livestock eat mostly feed that humans can't. That's part of the advantage of raising them. They are a means of converting crop by products like husks and hulls and stalks to nutrition we can use. They do the same marginal lands that can't support crops but will grow grass which again we can't eat, but they can.

Can vegans eat bug paste?

Eventually they will want to replace fresh vegetables that use up precious water with bug paste veggies...

Be careful what dumb decisions you make today may effect you in ways you couldnt even imagine in the future.

Me though? I'll go cannibal before I eat bugs, why? Cause # you or anyone who thinks they going to rule over me in that fashion.

originally posted by: CptGreenTea
a reply to: tanstaafl

Most scientists, nutrionalists, dieticians agree that whole food veganism is healthy at all stages in life.

Ummm... dieticians, sure, I'll give you that, they're all graduates of propaganda facilties masquerading as schools that are funded by big agri/big processed food manufacturers/big pharma.

But scientists (real scientists, not fake ones bought and paid for by the aforementioned big boys) and nutritionists? Nope. Not even close.

I see why you have to believe that - because acknowledging its morally wrong to support the torture of animals

No one is torturing animals. That is another gaslighting myth from the church of anorexia-vegana.

The vast majority of farmers treat their animals extremely well.

Now, yes, if you want to talk slaughterhouses, I'll agree 1000% that the way those are managed needs to change, but this is also why I am a huge proponent of buying from your local farmer, get to know them, and only buy from ones who employ humane slaughtering practices.

All that said, you appear to believe it is morally OK to murder far more animals in pursuit of your radical church of anorexia-vegana, because that is precisely what the actual practicing of your religion results in.

when healthy veggie alternatives exist

Yeah.... except, they don't. Humans are incapable of properly breaking down plant fibers. At all.

WARNING: TMI ALERT: This is precisely why people who eat a lot of veggies/plants have to poop 2, 3 or more times per day - because they are incapable of utilizing more than 5% or so of what they are ingesting. Whereas with meat, one can utilize 95+% of what you eat - which is why you only need to poop 1-3 times per WEEK, and the poops are extremely fast/painless and clean. A poop takes me around 20 seconds from the time I close the stall door to when I'm flushing the toilet.

It is plant fiber that is the cause of pretty much ALL of the bowel diseases of modern man, from IBS/IBD, to Crohns and leaky gut. These all totally and completely disappear after a few weeks to a few months after going on the carnivore diet.

means youd have to give up meat.

Why on earth would I give up eating the food that I am intended to eat? Sorry, but I don't have a death wish.

So you have to believe we all need meat in order to justify torturing animals.

And again, no one is torturing animals, that is simply a trigger your church uses to keep you riled up and fanatically supportive of their radical agenda.

Maybe you're living in delusion, not us vegans.

Ummmm....

Allow me to retort....

Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahhahahahaha!

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: tanstaafl

Actually ruminant livestock eat mostly feed that humans can't.

That's part of the advantage of raising them. They are a means of converting crop by products like husks and hulls and stalks to nutrition we can use. They do the same marginal lands that can't support crops but will grow grass which again we can't eat, but they can.

Exactly right. Even commercially raised cattle eat grass for 3/4 of their lives, before being sent to the feedlot (unlike grass finished, they skip that last part and just eat grass).

a reply to: tanstaafl

Please show me a peer-reviewed study that shows a vegan diet is unhealthy. It's clear you have a strong bias against veganism. You even agreed that slaughterhouses are an issue. They literally torture animals there. Where do you think most livestock end up?

Please cite some studies as everything ive read shows that veganism is a healthy lifestyle when done properly.

Watch the documentary "dominion" which shows the various aweful practices of slaughterhouses. Then tell me that these animals are not being tortured.

The only real solution to ending factory farming is to not participate in it. Not everyone can find a farmer who follows the best ethical farming practices. BUT, nearly everyone can go vegan or at least vegetarian.

a reply to: ketsuko

It's a belief, philosophy - sure. It's not a system though. It's a lifestyle that omits animal products as a way to reduce animal suffering.

It is a matter of morality. And i think it is a pretty clear moral decision. Not complicated to decide to not participate in practices that harm animals.

a reply to: tanstaafl

www.ers.usda.gov...

It's pretty obvious if you do any research that most crops are used to feed livestock.

Maybe you should spend less time trying to shame vegans for trying to reduce animal suffering and spend more time researching the opinions you carelessly spam.

a reply to: CptGreenTea



Most of this is an interview from a professor at UC David who works on the subject.

a reply to: CptGreenTea

Sorry, but it's a belief system like Buddhism if you prefer to call it a philosophy, and Buddhism is a major religion.

The Buddhists were the ones to burn themselves alive, but most aren't like that.

originally posted by: CptGreenTea
a reply to: tanstaafl

Please show me a peer-reviewed study that shows a vegan diet is unhealthy

Show me one that proves it is healthy... or one that proves that carnivore is unhealthy.

There aren't any. There are NO randomized double blind placebo controlled studies of ANY kind showing cause/effect with respect to what constitutes a proper human diet for ANY diet, whether vegetarian, vegan, keto or carnivore.

It's clear you have a strong bias against veganism.

My only bias is for the truth, and the truth is, human beings simply DO NOT have a digestive system made for digesting vegetable matter.

You even agreed that slaughterhouses are an issue.

No, I said that SOME of them MAY be an issue, it all depends on how they are managed/run. Animals can be slaughtered humanely - meaning, where the animals experience no fear leading up to their demise, or pain when they are actually killed.

They literally torture animals there.

No, they don't. Actual torture requires a specific intent, and not even the bad ones torture them with intent. What some of them (may) do is kill them without caring about whether or not they feel fear or pain, and I agree that is very bad, and laws/regulations should be passed and/or enforced that prevent the unnecessary fear and pain of any/all animals raised for food.

Please cite some studies as everything ive read shows that veganism is a healthy lifestyle when done properly.

The only thing you've read are biased observational/epidemiological 'studies' that may or may not show weak ASSOCIATIONS, but NONE of them can EVER show cause and effect. But the reality is, most of these that even show a weak association are totally biased, and even use manipulated/faked data, and this HAS been PROVEN.

Watch the documentary "dominion"

No thanks, I don't like to watch propaganda pieces. I've already acknowledged that SOME slaughterhouses use inhumane practices, and I don't enjoy watching animals suffer, so I'll pass.

The only real solution to ending factory farming is to not participate in it.

I don't want to necessarily END factory farming, I want to end the inhumane treatment of animals that are raised for our food.

Also, the bottom line is, most factory farmed feed animals (with the exception of chickens) spend the vast majority of their lives simply living and eating grass in the pasture, because it is much cheaper to do that than otherwise.

Not everyone can find a farmer who follows the best ethical farming practices.

Yes they can. They may have to actually get off their duffs and look, but everyone can find one if they want to.

BUT, nearly everyone can go vegan or at least vegetarian.

Sure they can, if they want to:

a) participate in factory farming of plants that results in far more animals suffering fear, pain and death than factory farming of cows and other ruminant animals can ever cause, and

b) eat substances that are loaded with naturally occurring carcinogens, toxins (lectins, phytates and oxalates among many others) and antinutrients (that prevent the absorption of any potential nutrients that might exist in said pkant substances) and thus CAUSE ALL of the modern day diseases we currently suffer from.

I say NO THANKS.

originally posted by: CptGreenTea
a reply to: tanstaafl

www.ers.usda.gov...

It's pretty obvious if you do any research that most crops are used to feed livestock.

Maybe you should spend less time trying to shame vegans for trying to reduce animal suffering and spend more time researching the opinions you carelessly spam.

Oh, I have researched this, and am fully informed of the truth, vs your cherry-picked fake research...

I'll just drop this link that debunks ALL of your pro-vegan propaganda that is more full of holes than a sieve...

Now, go ahead and falsely claim that these truths are not true, and continue believing your lies.

originally posted by: tanstaafl

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: tanstaafl

Actually ruminant livestock eat mostly feed that humans can't.

That's part of the advantage of raising them. They are a means of converting crop by products like husks and hulls and stalks to nutrition we can use. They do the same marginal lands that can't support crops but will grow grass which again we can't eat, but they can.

Even commercially raised cattle eat grass for 3/4 of their lives, before being sent to the feedlot (unlike grass finished, they skip that last part and just eat grass).

Are you sure?

The labelling law requires just 51% of cattle’s life to be spent on grass for your butcher to call it “grass fed”.

lilynicholsrdn.com...

If commercially raised cattle spend 75% of their life eating grass it would be labelled 'grass fed beef'.

Do you have anything to back up what you claim?

a reply to: tanstaafl

Dude.. you said i better not use vegan websites to back up any claims. So i did not. I used a .gov link. Then you refute it by using a anti-vegan carnivore blogger website.

Do you not see the hypocrisy there?

Yea.. im not going to read anything from an anti-vegan website that sells animal products. They are clearly beyond bias.

a reply to: tanstaafl

You're becoming silly. Any studies that show vegan diet to be healthy are fake, minipulated, or propaganda?

Anti nutrients from plants cause all modern day diseases?

Thats a wild claim. I dont even claim such things about a meat heavy diet.

There are many organizations (such as the World Health organization) and studies that show the health benifits both short and long term of a vegan diet.

One example of health benefits - study

Example 1 of approval of vegan diet

Example 2 of vegan diets being healthy

Example 3 - british dietician approval of vegan diet

And these are just a few examples of organizations that say a vegan diet is healthy.

Please provide something of substance if you wish to refute me. Not some carnivore blogger that hates vegans.

And if you think everything is fake or false that shows the benifits of a vegan diet then im not sure what to tell you because at that point you have no desire for eational discussion.

Vegans make up less than 5% of the population. The vegan industry is miniscule compared to meat and diary. Giants which often produce industry funded studies that support eating diary and meat.

So whats more likely? A handful of vegans are controlling health organizations and minipulating studies, or you're falki g for the propaganda of meat and diary industrys which try to discredit unbias health organizations and studies.

So if you wish to continue - provide a real arguement and studycshowing why veganism is unhealthy. Otherwise, its pointless to argue with carnivore blogger extemist psuedo science.