The Calvine UFO Image is finally out

originally posted by: chunder
a reply to: mirageman

Pope says photos - the MoD boffins had the 6 negatives available not just the one print, some of the others may have allowed a better judge of size.

Did they though? Understand that I am not questioning you personally here but the officially recorded chain of events and what we have been told from the likes of Pope, Clarke and the MoD.

The MoD received the negatives on 10th September 1990. It was confirmed in a 14th Sept 1990 memo that these negatives had been returned to the Scottish Daily Record newspaper. This was after examination by their experts at JARIC. So did they retain a copy of the negatives or just the photos?

We know they must have kept something on file because " line drawings" were requested in a memo dated 29th Nov 1991. Over a year after the initial investigation.

Seee DEFE 31/180 on page 55-56



But here this "RETASK"request mentions that the original negatives were not available.

The only picture provided in the public release of files was this!!



How could they work out anything from that?

a reply to: Direne
Perhaps they were involved intimately, something that was very taboo in the early 90s, and men would often go to secluded areas to go about that sort of thing.

a reply to: Jukiodone

This isn't actually correct. Sightings have usually been reported as 1 of 4 things. Diamond or delta shape. Cigar or tic tac shape. Spherical. Or disk/saucer shape. And that has been the case since before manned flight. What is interesting, the recent talk from official channels is along the lines of 'well they are here, we don't dispute that, but if these are from another state, they represent an advancement of technology that has far surpassed our own"

The problem is, these craft (or whatever they are) have always displayed characteristics that far outstrip ANY known craft of human design or capability. The gorman dogfight incident is quite an interesting example of this. The official report says the pilot got confused between a craft and Jupiter. Lol. They aren't some recent, new thing. They have always been described in much the same manner. I don't believe Russia had these in the 30s and 40s and people are only starting to worry about it now.

For me, two explanations. The recent attention is a double bluff to divert people's thoughts away from some new experimental aircraft (as has been done before), or this planet is being visited from elsewhere.

a reply to: Jukiodone

Think exotic propulsion - not LTA.

One of the things that keeps me interested in UFO reports is that as stealth technology evolved - "UFO's" seemingly followed the trend.

Sightings in the 80's and 90's - faceted diamond "UFO's" (for e.g Calvine,Cash/Landrum, Rendelsham).
90's/00's - Boomerang/Deltas/Tri "UFO's."

Yes...

a reply to: sg1642

That could explain the strange trip to the hill. But I tend to believe the guys simply went to prepare their prank, took the pics, and send them to the Daily Record, except they didn't expect the Daily Record would submit them to the Ministry of Defence.

Once in their hands, someone there thought the pictures were real, as they were already investigating the Aurora project of the Americans and certainly thought they had an immense luck having now the pics taken by the two guys. So they instructed the Daily Record to remain silent and return the originals and to make no copies. Till an expert from the Ministry popped in and told them the pictures were clearly a hoax. Imagine the ridicule. I guess the only way out was contacting the two guys and telling them to remain silent about the prank, or otherwise the next excursion they would make to the mountain will be at night, in a black car and hooded. A one-way excursion. No return.

The more I see the picture, the more I feel it is just another Billy Meier UFO...

originally posted by: Direne
a reply to: sg1642

That could explain the strange trip to the hill. But I tend to believe the guys simply went to prepare their prank, took the pics, and send them to the Daily Record, except they didn't expect the Daily Record would submit them to the Ministry of Defence.

Once in their hands, someone there thought the pictures were real, as they were already investigating the Aurora project of the Americans and certainly thought they had an immense luck having now the pics taken by the two guys. So they instructed the Daily Record to remain silent and return the originals and to make no copies. Till an expert from the Ministry popped in and told them the pictures were clearly a hoax. Imagine the ridicule. I guess the only way out was contacting the two guys and telling them to remain silent about the prank, or otherwise the next excursion they would make to the mountain will be at night, in a black car and hooded. A one-way excursion. No return.

The more I see the picture, the more I feel it is just another Billy Meier UFO...

The complete file on The Calvine Incident is closed to the public until 2076.

I am sure this is normal practice for something regarded as a " Hoax "

That craft just doesn't look like a real ufo with that thing on the back. Not that anyone really KNOWS what a real ufo looks like...But nevertheless, that thing looks very human to me.

The complete file on The Calvine Incident is closed to the public until 2076.

I am sure this is normal practice for something regarded as a " Hoax "

I guess it's a top-secret hoax.

originally posted by: alldaylong

originally posted by: Direne


a reply to: sg1642

That could explain the strange trip to the hill. But I tend to believe the guys simply went to prepare their prank, took the pics, and send them to the Daily Record, except they didn't expect the Daily Record would submit them to the Ministry of Defence.

Once in their hands, someone there thought the pictures were real, as they were already investigating the Aurora project of the Americans and certainly thought they had an immense luck having now the pics taken by the two guys. So they instructed the Daily Record to remain silent and return the originals and to make no copies. Till an expert from the Ministry popped in and told them the pictures were clearly a hoax. Imagine the ridicule. I guess the only way out was contacting the two guys and telling them to remain silent about the prank, or otherwise the next excursion they would make to the mountain will be at night, in a black car and hooded. A one-way excursion. No return.

The more I see the picture, the more I feel it is just another Billy Meier UFO...

The complete file on The Calvine Incident is closed to the public until 2076.

I am sure this is normal practice for something regarded as a " Hoax "

As I understand it, officially, only the two witnesses' NAMES are being kept classified until 2076.

One reason why Nick Pope's current reluctance to 'Confirm or Deny' that this was the pic adorning his office wall (which it IS) makes no sense at all.

When I read Pope's Tweet, I emitted a 'low humming sound'!


PS: Whether they have the aircraft pilot's name is another matter altogether.

a reply to: peaceinoutz

That craft just doesn't look like a real ufo with that thing on the back.

If it's just a " landing pod " from a mothership, i suppose it could look unsophisticated, just designed for traveling short distances.

a reply to: ConfusedBrit

That's the whole problem.

Everyone is just guessing, no one really knows what it was.

a reply to: alldaylong

Is not that a guess, too? Anyway, that the documents are under embargo does not prove is not an hoax. It proves the ridicule the MoD made should not be exposed until 2076, when those ridiculed be long ago dead.

By the way, were the MoD be really interested in keeping the whole thing secret they would have killed the guy who had the original photograph, a wonderful old man that states he was wondering why never ever anyone came to him asking for the photograph... until the day a UFO researcher came knocking at his door this year.

a reply to: Direne

Is not that a guess, too?

Of course it is.

Every opinion on this thread is a guess.

originally posted by: alldaylong
a reply to: peaceinoutz

That craft just doesn't look like a real ufo with that thing on the back.

If it's just a " landing pod " from a mothership, i suppose it could look unsophisticated, just designed for traveling short distances.

Decades of Sci-Fi movies - especially since 'Close Encounters' (1977) - have hammered home the notion that ET craft MUST look 'sophisticated', despite no concrete reasoning behind it. Would intergalactic travel require utmost simplicity in external designs? Wouldn't WE do the same?

I still think it's ours, but my mind remains open for this case since nobody has any firm answers yet.

Aside from the pic itself, the reported MOVEMENT of this thing is what intrigues the most. According to the witnesses, it was there for ten minutes (check your watch; that's a substantial amount of time), hovering not flying, before shooting up vertically at great speed. During those ten minutes, the aircraft seemed almost incidental and just as curious as our two chefs, arriving after a few minutes, encircling before sweeping off again.

The "Humming" sound is open to question; aside from Pope, I'm not sure where the source for that tidbit is.

Moreover, what happened after the UFO shot upwards? Did the witnesses hang around for a while? Did the aircraft return? Who knows?

a reply to: alldaylong

The complete file on The Calvine Incident is closed to the public until 2076.

To reinforce what CB said THE CALVINE FILE IS NOT CLASSIFIED UNTIL 2076..

Only the name of the photographer and another witness has been redacted from these files. Nor were the photos EV ER classified. The MoD was expecting them to be published by the Daily Record in the autumn of 1990. Whcih you can read in the excerpts I've already posted and also linked below.

This is stated on the UK National Archives site in repsonse to specific questions last years. I have included on the relevant parts below. But the full statement is available at the link provided.

Q3: Are these files marked as classified, or somehow FoIA exempt? If so, what is the specific reason/exemption given?

A : The redactions you will see in the open version all cover personal information (names and addresses) of members of the public who wrote to the Ministry of Defence reporting UFO sightings, and also the names of the Ministry of Defence staff who investigated these reports. These details are exempt from release under section 40 (2) (personal data) of the FOI Act.


Q5: Is The Scottish Sun’s claim that you are actively withholding these files accurate? If so, who gave you this right?

As explained above, the only closed information within this file is personal information exempt under s40(2) of the FOI Act. The remainder of the file is open and available to download.

The Calvine files are all available here (with page references provided, even though most people won't bother to read them) :

DEFE 24/1940/1 - page 116

DEFE 31/179 on pages 157-8

DEFE 31/180 on pages 37-38 & 55-57

And for the reocrd....

Here's Pitlochry at 20:40 tonight. This is comparative to what the natural light would be like at 21:00 on August 4th 1990 when the Calvine UFO was allegedly snapped.

originally posted by: ConfusedBrit

originally posted by: alldaylong
a reply to: peaceinoutz

That craft just doesn't look like a real ufo with that thing on the back.

If it's just a " landing pod " from a mothership, i suppose it could look unsophisticated, just designed for traveling short distances.

Decades of Sci-Fi movies - especially since 'Close Encounters' (1977) - have hammered home the notion that ET craft MUST look 'sophisticated', despite no concrete reasoning behind it. Would intergalactic travel require utmost simplicity in external designs? Wouldn't WE do the same?

I still think it's ours, but my mind remains open for this case since nobody has any firm answers yet.

Aside from the pic itself, the reported MOVEMENT of this thing is what intrigues the most. According to the witnesses, it was there for ten minutes (check your watch; that's a substantial amount of time), hovering not flying, before shooting up vertically at great speed. During those ten minutes, the aircraft seemed almost incidental and just as curious as our two chefs, arriving after a few minutes, encircling before sweeping off again.

The "Humming" sound is open to question; aside from Pope, I'm not sure where the source for that tidbit is.

Moreover, what happened after the UFO shot upwards? Did the witnesses hang around for a while? Did the aircraft return? Who knows?

A few years ago I was in Afghanistan. Me and one other saw 3 lights appear in sequence one after the other. He brought my attention to them. I just said ah its nothing (they appeared how fast air dispensing flares appeared at night, glowing lights in sequence, one after another). I started watching the sky (we were close to a US checkpoint who had much less restricted ROE than us, and they had a lot of air support going at it morning noon and night, it was quite a show sometimes). These things were slowly dropping. But then they all stopped, hovered, and one after another, they shot up in the sky at an absolutely ridiculous speed. Like blink at you would have missed it speed. We both looked at each other with a bit of look that basically meant lets not bloody mention this again. I have been filled with curiosity ever since it happened, and any time I read or hear about something where they describe whatever they are watching shoot off upwards I always sit back and wonder, did we see the same thing? It is a fascinating subject, whatever the underlying truth is.

originally posted by: AcerM
a reply to: Blaine91555

Thats not even the same photo

Actually, it is from the link in the OP. Click Here

It's at the top of the linked article from the OP. I cropped it, but beyond that the only thing done was a dehaze filter process. The colors are the colors that were already there in the image. The cropped enlargement was done without any alteration which is why the pixels are so large. To see it properly you must open it full size.

Or click here to go to the OP and just click the link there.

It does look man made with the tail fins on one end. Even though fairly small, they would still function on something very light filled with helium. Or even at faster speeds in an atmosphere.

Does the initial report state that the object travelled unusually? Trying to find more info.

Doesn't look alien.

a reply to: mirageman

This is what i get from The National Archives.

Q2: Was it just the dossier, or were supplementary materials included? (eg. the 6 color photographs) As noted on our catalogue, the full contents of DEFE 24/1940 are closed until 01 January 2076. A redacted version of the file is open and available to download from our catalogue here. There are three folios within this file that relate to the incident in question (pages 35-37 of part 2). There are no photographs contained in the file. The file itself states that the original negatives were returned to the Scottish Daily Record.

www.nationalarchives.gov.uk...

Not sure if that just means the witness names or is there more that is being held back from the public ?

a reply to: alldaylong

Doesn't need to be manned.
By blimp im encompassing a few things in that term - Stealth Radar balloons and other unmanned aircraft in general.