Y’all watching China

a reply to: TheRedneck

Thanks for claryfying . It`s amazing how World can change this fast...China being lower tech country earlyer, no so long ago and now up , thought by stealing & espionage from West.

Western order has been investing and transferring technology to help China’s transformation if i understand right, so behind the curtain ther`s been push to build China .

I gues for the New Worl Order high echelon folks dont necessery matter if US fails, or West...


I dont know if Klaus/ WEF agrees with Chinas ambitions, but who knows if China runs the WEF
befind the curtain.


It`s all shady IMO...behind closed doors talks happen that are very different that we read from news, maybe.


It`s a closed ecosystem, this high decision....and we ain't in it.

a reply to: Kenzo

Yes, it wasn't that long ago that China was considered, rightfully so, as only good at copying what the west came up with. But then again, that was also the case with Japan after WWII... then Japan started actually developing the tech they were copying. Now Japanese cars are more reliable than the traditional Big 3 US manufacturers. China has done the same thing, but with a twist: China early on realized which way the winds were blowing and developed infrastructure for the rare earth elements.

You see, rare earth elements are not really all that rare. They occur almost everywhere, including in the USA. But they also do not occur in large quantities. There are no actual rare earth mines; China simply installed refining capability at their other mines. Any mine, be it aluminum, copper, tin, iron, gold, etc., will also produce rare earth elements if it has the refining capability. That capability does not come into existence overnight; rare earth refining requires a lot of specialized equipment and is extremely polluting.

So today China produces the bulk of the rare earth elements. They can do so at low cost by sacrificing large sections of their country to the pollution. They are also buying up some of the other potential sources across the globe, to ensure they maintain the present semi-monopoly on the industry.

China also does not sell rare earth elements. They use what they mine, ensuring that their semiconductor facilities have what they need at a low cost, but others across the globe have to pay much, much more. There's just not many rare earth elements to be found outside of China. China does not like to sell components even... they prefer to make finished products. As an example, look at solar cells: I can get the solar cells used in the patio solar lighting cheaper by buying the lighting system new and removing them than I can by trying to find the exact same solar cells at surplus dealers!

China (and Taiwan, since they consider it a part of China) has a worldwide lock on all semiconductors, from discrete diodes and transistors to VLSI computer chips. That's why the USA is so determied to ensure Taiwan stays independent. Every military piece of equipment and every piece of consumer electronics made is made using chips from Taiwan or China. Every single one. The only field that normally uses chips from other countries is military-grade R&D... no one else can afford chips from other countries. Even the military cannot afford them in production quantities.

Think about that and let it sink in. Without China, we would not have computers, TVs, modern cars, military surveillance, self-guided missiles, or even modern riding lawn mowers! Almost everything relies on trade from China.

Western order has been investing and transferring technology to help China’s transformation if i understand right, so behind the curtain ther`s been push to build China .

I don't think it has been via conscious investing to help China. Certainly some politicians seem to be on the Chinese dole, but the real reason China has managed to develop is less that than China simply making good economic decisions as opposed to our poor economic decisions.

One area that I particularly have a problem with, though, is how China handles trademarks and patents. Some believe China simply ignores intellectual property rights; not so. China strictly enforces intellectual property right in China, but rights from other countries are considered meaningless. Take Apple, for instance; Apple is based in China, and their intellectual property rights inside China are strictly enforced. Other countries in the West also enforce Apple intellectual property rights. But should someone else have a patent or trademark in the US, China will ignore it inside China.

That places all inventors outside of China at a disadvantage. China does not even have a problem with Chinese firms developing their own products in direct violation of Western intellectual property rights. We are subhuman to them, so they don't see us as even having rights.

The one thing that has been holding China back is energy. They do not have an abundance of fossil fuels there save coal. That's why so many coal-fired power plants are still in operation... all that manufacturing takes power. But thanks to our illustrious President starting sanctions between Russia and the West, China is now Russia's primary energy customer and can get all the oil and natural gas Russia can pump, cheaply because Russia has very few other customers now. That will kick the Chinese economy into high gear.

It will also make China bolder. Before Russia started producing energy at present levels, the only way to get energy into China was via the Persian Gulf. That route entailed traveling around the horn of India (India is traditionally an enemy to China) and through the Polynesian island chains where the US has many allies and strategic bases. In short, if China were to start a war, they would quickly run low on energy for their war effort. Now, however, they have pipelines direct from Russia supplying energy. The weak supply chain is no longer an issue, and is becoming even less of an issue as Russia uses those sales to build up their infrastructure to supply more fuel to China.

TheRedneck

a reply to: TheRedneck


Chinese were smart , by understanding to instal refining capability to other mines.
Yeeh it would really hurt to now not have computers etc..

I dont see Europe had much choises regarding oil/gas from Russia, when it`s obvious Russia uses trading also as weapon ,and Europe cant trust Russia at all.

Russia has few problems with gas/oil fields because of the sanctions, i dont know can China
help with it enough , maybe with money can but technology not sure.

Russia’s Demise as an Energy Superpower


Fertility is one factor , but for now it`s not yet big issue for China. Though can we really know how much pollution in China will effect also to fertility ...


Demography is the key to our geopolitical future


Russia will be Chinas pariah buddy it look`s...and China can get good deals with them


It`s a big entirety this whole China , rare earths , computer chips etc....thanks for explaining, i clearly did not have so clear picture of it all . It`s easy to understand now how important Taiwan is for West .



This article talks about the microship problem, but it wont say a word about rare earth minerals.

West aims to wean itself off China-Taiwan chip reliance

a reply to: Kenzo

I dont see Europe had much choises regarding oil/gas from Russia, when it`s obvious Russia uses trading also as weapon ,and Europe cant trust Russia at all.

Everyone uses trading as a weapon.

I know the popular view is that Russia invaded Ukraine for no reason, but that's simply not true. The West backed Russia into a corner. There are so many dynamics at play here it is probably impossible to touch on all of them, but the big one is that Ukraine has been in a cold civil war for quite some time. Ukraine is split down the middle by a river, and on the western side the residents identify with Europe. In the eastern half, the residents generally identify with Russia. Kyiv sits right on the borderline.

Ukraine has the original pipelines to move Russian energy to Europe, and the Ukrainian government has a long history of problems with Russia. Russia claims Ukraine does not pay for all the energy coming through the pipelines, and Ukraine complains that Russia is overcharging them. That goes back about as far as the first drop of Russian oil to be burnt in a European lamp. The fact that the US has been using Ukraine as a money-laundering operation for at least 10 years doesn't help that dynamic.

Then there's the new Nord Stream 2 pipeline. It was just completed. It's purpose was to give Russia another pipeline so they could bypass Ukraine if necessary; the Nord Stream 2 goes directly into Germany. Russia spent a substantial amount putting in that pipeline, money that Russia does not have a great deal of, and as soon as it was ready for official approval, Germany killed it. Now that pipeline and all those resources are useless. That was also at the urging of Joe Biden.

And the last point I will make is that Russia is afraid of NATO weapons on it's border. We were the same way; the exact same thing happened with USSR weapons on the US border during the Cuban Missile Crisis. The US was beating war drums until Russia pulled their weapons out of Cuba. Now Russia perceived a threat of NATO weapons on its border, and started beating war drums. But we didn't back off; we doubled down. So Russia didn't back off either.

Ukraine is not a NATO ally... but should it become one, that places Russian pipelines at risk and indeed, we would consider it a national security risk should positions be reversed. So we got the Ukraine invasion. I believe a couple of the Balkan countries have since applied to join NATO in response; OK, so now NATO is tripling down. And no one is actually talking diplomacy.

I'm not defending Russia's actions, just providing accurate historical perspective. There's a lot more to the Russia-Ukraine conflict than we in the West are being told. That's why I do not participate in the main thread on that subject; I cannot cut through the propaganda. It's simply too thick.

Russia has few problems with gas/oil fields because of the sanctions, i dont know can China
help with it enough , maybe with money can but technology not sure.

Russia needs money. Period. Oil fields and natural gas fields do not spring from the ground fully formed. They take a huge investment, and Russia has virtually unlimited untapped resources waiting to be tapped at this point. I have heard it said that Putin wants the USSR back... well, I think that's a yes and no answer. I don't think Putin has designs on a World War III type conquest,but Russia does want some of their previous power back. They want to control their own destiny, just as any country would want to do. In order to accomplish that, they need to control some important commodity... and their commodity is energy. Russia does not have a monopoly on energy by any means, but they are now allied with Iran and Syria. Together, those three nations represent a huge slice of the energy pie.

Energy production actually requires little in the way of high-tech. It requires much in the way of high cost.

Fertility is one factor , but for now it`s not yet big issue for China. Though can we really know how much pollution in China will effect also to fertility ...

China's pollution problem is due to two factors mainly: the rare earth refining of course, and the fact they have had to burn coal for energy. With the advent of Russian oil becoming more plentiful in China,one of those two factors gets alleviated.

I believe China will always be seen as polluted, but if they can contain the pollution to specific areas (like around the mines), they have enough land mass to still handle most of their agricultural needs. if I am worried about anything starting a WWIII, it would be that China was not able to feed their own population. Hungry, desperate people are angry people, and angry people start wars.

It`s a big entirety this whole China , rare earths , computer chips etc....thanks for explaining, i clearly did not have so clear picture of it all . It`s easy to understand now how important Taiwan is for West .

I'm happy to help. People need to know what's really happening; the media certainly won't tell them. Hopefully more people will read this exchange and realize what is actually going on. Everything I said can be verified by a thorough search, but it will not be on the first link... probably not on the first page. Countries need the good will of their people, so countries will always try to hide uncomfortable truths.

This article talks about the microship problem, but it wont say a word about rare earth minerals.

Of course they don't. If everything the people depended on were threatened by one country who was opposing the present war effort economically and starting to beat a few war drums of their own, would you want the people to know how precarious their position was?

TheRedneck

a reply to: TheRedneck

Well i dont agree what comes to Russia/Ukraine events , but lets just agree that we disagree on that . Starting almost endless discussion about it in thread about China would get it to wrong direction .

Part of China and India are quite polluted ,including water ...they have challences to solve the issues, and yes agree that food security is factor that can make people angry. Problem is that i think the health issues can get worse to every next generation, as toxins partly accumulate to body, the newborns can have more and more health issues by every generation .

a reply to: Kenzo

Well i dont agree what comes to Russia/Ukraine events , but lets just agree that we disagree on that . Starting almost endless discussion about it in thread about China would get it to wrong direction .

That's fair enough; it is a very touchy subject right now as well. I will suggest you at least look into some of the things I mentioned yourself.

My point in mentioning it is that the conflict and the sanctions imposed due to it are directly related to China's future ability to power their industry. I foresee Russia/China being energy independent and the ruble/yuan possibly emerging as the International Reserve Currency.

Part of China and India are quite polluted ,including water ...they have challences to solve the issues, and yes agree that food security is factor that can make people angry. Problem is that i think the health issues can get worse to every next generation, as toxins partly accumulate to body, the newborns can have more and more health issues by every generation .

A sad consequence of overpopulation is that when there are too many people in one area, the value of each person goes down... far down. Yes, China and India will likely see an increased mortality due to the pollution, but I don;t think that will change their perspective. When the population is growing every year, there comes a point where killing off people due to lax pollution standards becomes acceptable.

It sounds horrible to us, but this is a completely different culture. They have different values and different mores.

As technology increases, it will also be possible to deter the present pollution levels. As an example, one of the most dangerous components of car pollution is sulfur dioxide. It reacts in the atmosphere to produce sulfuric acid, which then falls as acid rain and can devastate entire forests. Where does it originate? High-sulfur fuels, which are now banned in most of the West. Why did it become a major problem at one time? Catalytic converters, which concentrate the sulfur dioxide and then leak when they get old. Technology found the problem, made it worse, then resolved the vast bulk of it with new refining technology.

The same thing can happen with rare earth pollution. At some point, technology will find a "solution." That solution may be an actual solution or it may make things worse for a while. But eventually, technology will solve the problem.

Take yttrium as an example. Yttrium is used in superconductors, high-performance spark plugs, and lithium-ion batteries, to name a few of the applications. It is a rare-earth element, like the lanthinides. and is never found in nature as an element. More commonly, it is found as an oxide. To get the element requires the use of sulfuric and oxalic acid; you may know sulfuric acid by another name: stomach acid. Those acids are not completely used up in the process (doing so would make production many times more expensive) and thus are typically added to the environment. Every time you use a lithium-ion battery, in your cell phone, your laptop, or in any battery-powered device, you have just contributed sulfuric acid and oxalic acid to the environment.

But, those acids can be contained and even broken down to more environmentally-friendly materials. It's just that doing so takes money and technology. China at the present time is containing those acids in specific areas which are now too polluted to support life at all. At some point, they will have to start breaking them down. But by then, they will likely have the technology to do so.

In other words, the practices of China and India today are not necessarily indicative of their actions tomorrow.

TheRedneck

a reply to: TheRedneck

Good point, yes and these subjects are indeed quite complex , i guess they allways are ...i mean the power strugles between different party.


Technology goes forward, i was just reading about this

Pyramid-like Lenses Could Cause A Solar Power Revolution


Big amount of solar panels for off-grid system are quite expensive, so if could have smaller panels to get same amount energy it would be nice .

a reply to: Kenzo

Technology goes forward, i was just reading about this

Be careful when finding items like this one. There's usually a catch somewhere you aren't looking. A good way to tell is when the page is lying to promote a product... in this case it makes a claim that solar power is the cheapest power available.

That's a direct lie. Solar power is the second-most expensive power source known, second only to batteries.

That pyramid lens does look like a good idea, until one examines the optics. Turns out it only does what it seems to do when the sun is in one specific spot. The rest of the time, the efficiency drops because the lens can no longer focus the solar rays on the cell. Beyond a specific point, the efficiency is actually much less than just a plain old solar cell without the lens.

Many companies have jumped on the solar bandwagon, and solar really is a good form of power for specific uses. It is self-contained, which means it can work anywhere the sun shines without being tied to any sort of grid. It is indeed clean, renewable energy (if one discounts the pollution from the manufacturing process, which is extensive). The drawbacks are that it is expensive to purchase, has a pretty limited service life span, is unreliable if the sun isn't shining brightly, produces low-voltage DC power that must be converted to high-voltage AC power if one wants to replace the typical electrical supply, and requires a great deal of area compared to the amount of power produced. It's a niche market, but one which has plenty of propaganda behind it and which most people are not really that well-versed on.

One great application is for trail cameras. A small solar cell can power them if they're efficient enough and they'll never run out of power. There's usually no need for DC-AC conversion either. I have even considered setting some of them up here, along with solar-powered WiFi extenders so the cameras can be accessed from long distances.

As for the initial cost? If China wasn't regulating their export so carefully, solar cells would likely cost 1/4 or even less of what they do now. They're not expensive to make if one has the equipment.

TheRedneck

Americans, China isn’t your enemy, your enemy is the extreme-right conspiracy plotting to destroy the five Allied Powers. They are trying to create a world war between the People’s Republic of China and the United States of America because these two countries are their main enemies and an alliance between the two would defeat them.

a reply to: Kenzo

Problem is that i think the health issues can get worse to every next generation, as toxins partly accumulate to body, the newborns can have more and more health issues by every generation .

Already happening, cancer rates are skyrocketing over there.
Also pollution is severe where they had been wearing masks long before Covid.
They also do things to ensure non polluted seafood like stamps on them, evne though it is easily counterfeited.