Abortion? Again? My opinion? Im a man. I shouldnt have 1.

a reply to: seagull

Member criticalstinker has issued you an award.

a reply to: CriticalStinker

No one should grill you my friend about any opinion. Thats the beauty in the Human Condition. You have an are entitled to feel or not feel. I dont think woman however...are "entitled" to feel. (WAIT. IM ducking!!)

I strongly believe woman have no choice in life and death...BUT to feel. To set on a course for life unknown, but vastly different from men.

Woman hold the destiny of mankind. We should always remember that.

Im glad my mom didn't have an abortion. I should get her some flowers or something.

a reply to: mysterioustranger

So when does their "Right" to kill their child end? When they're 18 and move out? never?

Imho, they do not have the right to kill that child at any point. But hey, call me a humanist.

If no natural influence was going to kill the baby, then make no mistake, a conscious and willing decision to terminate that life IS murder. The baby would have thrived if not for the artificial decision of its mother to end its life.

Stop detaching things from their logical conclusions, it makes you look evil.

a reply to: CriticalStinker

Then you should take steps to make such a thing highly unlikely...thats what I have done and its worked pretty well. Its not 100% guaranteed but it sure works in almost all cases. Also if she does not wish to bear children she has a responsibility to demand such steps be taken a well our take them herself...or both.

originally posted by: Joneselius
If no natural influence was going to kill the baby, then make no mistake, a conscious and willing decision to terminate that life IS murder. The baby would have thrived if not for the artificial decision of its mother to end its life.

Stop detaching things from their logical conclusions, it makes you look evil.

How do you possibly know the baby was going to thrive until birth? You have no way of knowing. You have no way of knowing what will happen to the mother while pregnant 40 weeks or during birth. My daughter lost her 26 year old best friend last year during child birth. She never even held the baby. She was a young healthy woman before pregnancy.

If you so believe that a natural influence makes these determinations than I suppose you are against viagra and the like as well? I mean if nature doesn't give them a stiff d**k then apparently it doesn't want them getting anyone pregnant.

originally posted by: Iconic
a reply to: mysterioustranger

So when does their "Right" to kill their child end? When they're 18 and move out? never?

Imho, they do not have the right to kill that child at any point. But hey, call me a humanist.

I don't mean to come across as rude but in debate, where people resort to these type of sarcastic examples, it really doesn't help and is just designed to make anyone who is pro choice look bad. There are as many opinions as there are people but the vast majority of pro choice have no interest in late term/viable birth trimester abortions and would find it abhorrent. The earlier the better. It's not like pro choice/women haven't thought this through.

As a Christian I am against abortion
As a Christian I support freewill and accept that individuals will have a different opinion to mine
I don’t believe I have the right to force my opinion on others, it’s their choice, the freewill gift from God I can’t deny anyone
It’s a nuanced subject, many details, many difficult circumstances not easily resolved

All aside from the arguments, met some people who have never forgiven themselves from the procedure, that’s a shame in itself

Tread gently, not everyone is a screaming extremist in this argument

a reply to: Joneselius

The baby would have thrived if not for the artificial decision of its mother to end its life.

How the hell do you know the baby would of thrived?

Children often don't thrive, and even more so, if the parenting is questionable, or economics come into play.

The world is fun of children, who are far from "thriving"

a reply to: mysterioustranger

Murder is Murder No?


Anyway, It is not like Abortion is Illegal. Just not available without travel to a kill state.

originally posted by: Joneselius
If no natural influence was going to kill the baby, then make no mistake, a conscious and willing decision to terminate that life IS murder. The baby would have thrived if not for the artificial decision of its mother to end its life.

Stop detaching things from their logical conclusions, it makes you look evil.

A surprisingly large number of early stage pregnancies can get reabsorbed without women even knowing they were pregnant. This happens naturally when things don't align right to support a pregnancy. Most often when its just a small clump of cells like very early abortion. A baby has to marinate and grow in a complex soup of chemicals and if that entails stress hormones from a woman forced into child birth/abusive relationships, lacking proper nutrition due to poverty or worse, drug addiction those effects are often carried with the child for life. It may not be detrimental but it may be. Very early abortion is not much different than the body naturally rejecting a fertilized egg/embryo. Late is a whole other issue and I truly feel if the pro life side could graciously see there is a vast difference between early and late, then society could work together to push the dates as early as possible, instead it has become a battle.

There are cases where it is the highest thought at a particular time and set of circumstances in a woman's life precisely for these reasons. I used to work with extreme cases of mental illness most of which had fetal alcohol on top of multiple other psychiatric disorders. They did not live happy lives, most were serious deviants and criminals who would target others, usually children, if allowed out of 24/7 care. I know this is rare, extremely rare, but this is why I feel it isn't right for others to judge a woman's circumstances.

I see so much cruelty online against women over this, always coming from men and women who happen to be in a better place in life than the downtrodden or impoverished. Those who virtuously state they would never go so low, speaking from the privilege of having no mental illness, good educations, good jobs, a balanced upbringing and simply a proper functioning mind. Not everyone is so blessed and we need to have compassion for situations we cannot comprehend.

OP, I appreciate your insight and fairness.

a reply to: igloo

I’m pro life, and I couldn’t agree with you more that there is a vast difference between early and late stage. The difference is a matter of development.

Which leads me to my question for you. When does life start? Would you be willing to bet your immortal soul, (if you believe in such a thing), that you are right? Because that’s exactly what you would be doing. Are you that convinced?

STUPID argument. Men have just as much say as women when it comes to whether or not murdering an innocent baby is OK or not.

That baby is NOT an extension of the woman's body. Of course a woman can do whatever she wants with HER body - but not the living baby!!

Every single person who says "let the women do what they want".........supports murdering babies.

So it is indisputably wrong to take a live that would have otherwise thrived, I agree.

Yet I wonder at what point taking a live becomes OK?

Because:
death sentence
War

If these are still valid parts of society all the humanistic babbling is pure hypocrisy...

a reply to: shaemac
Naw, you speak for yourself, some people just believe in autonomy over your own body, thats as much thought that I put in..you believe whatever you like

a reply to: mysterioustranger

I'm wondering when people will shut up about Russia/Ukraine if they aren't Russian or Ukrainian.

a reply to: vonclod

The point is that at some point theres another humans body inside of you... thats not your body anymore.

I think there should be a clear limit: when there is a heartbeat (5-7 weeks) and only for medical reasons and very strict checks maybe a little more.

The potential life argument is very weak, because having sex with birth control is wasting a potential life as well. Its about when there is life and when not. You cant kill something that isnt alive.

This is one of those topics that Republicans should move forward on and show the normal liberals (there still are plenty) theyre not the stubborn old christian party of the 50s anymore but a party of reason, rationality and middle ground. Since the Dems clearly went nuts.

a reply to: Terpene

exactly if abortion is wrong then so is war

no life should be up for the taking in any setting
who gives the authority for one to take anothers life

war is state sanctioned murder

Putting religious beliefs aside, abortion is not natural, it goes against nature.