What does the west hop[e to achieve helping Ukraine

originally posted by: 13ssA
a reply to: alldaylong

Since you agree that the western countries were forcefully influencing political and ideological environment of the (supposedly) free country of Ukraine, then it's only logical that Russia is defending interests of people of (west) Ukraine, considering the fact that they actively tried to resolve these issues diplomatically for the last 8 years.

When do you expect South Korea to invade The North ? Going by your logic.

a reply to: Wattt6

What they are doing and not needing to hope anything is to continue looting the American tax payer and funneling money to their Ukraine money laundering apparatus to receive much of it back to their campaign coffers. All illegal as well.

a reply to: gortex

I'm not talking 70 years ago I'm talking now with a Russia lead by a man with complete control of power and who sees the break up of the USSR as a tragedy of humanity and seeks to right that perceived wrong.

Are you serious? Are you actually claiming that Putin has the power of a Tzar who can do whatever he wants without discussing it with the government? You must be joking, right? This sounds tale made up by american media to create this boogeyman so that simpleminded people would just listen to whatever BS their media tells them without any critical thinking.

Also, he never said anything like "who sees the break up of the USSR as a tragedy of humanity and seeks to right that perceived wrong", he just simply regrets that it fell apart. This massive exaggeration is hilarious and quite concerning.

Pretty sure is was Russia who invaded Ukraine and set about destroying its cities so yeah Russia caused the problem , it would show arrogance in the extreme if Putin didn't expect this reaction to his invasion.

If Russia was set to destroy it's cities, they would have used bomber planes like US did with almost every country ever. Not trying to go into whatabautism here, it's just an example of how the destruction is usually being done in an effective way, if your aim is to destroy.

Although I have to admit, Putin probably did not expect this reaction to invasion, but I highly doubt he is thinking about giving up.

a reply to: alldaylong

Why would it be my logic?

P.S. I made a mistake, it should have been written as "defending interests of people of (east) Ukraine", not "west" Ukraine.

a reply to: 13ssA

Also, he never said anything like "who sees the break up of the USSR as a tragedy of humanity

Youre right I misquoted him , he said it was the "greatest geopolitical tragedy of the 20th century"
I said " and seeks to right that perceived wrong"

a reply to: gortex

Yep, he did said it that way, my bad.

From the perspective of the West a perpetual war in Ukraine is the best possible scenario. War means profit for military industrial complex. They know Ukraine cannot win because Russians outnumber Ukrainians 4 to 1 and have lots of military hardware. So the West sends military hardware to Ukraine to keep the war going.

War has always been about making defense companies rich. The OP is just stating the facts. If Russia was reducing all their war machines they would become less of a world power, but the west is also losing war inventories and we do not have the ability to replace it quickly, so both sides are actually getting weaker. I am sure with all the shutdowns in China, there was zero reduction of building war equipment there in the last three months, in fact they may have boosted production of weapons in existing factories to make sure they were prepared if the west gets too pushy and tries to go after their interests too.

China will not sell these weapons to the west if they are smart because if Russia falls they are the next country that will be targeted to reduce their threat to the west.

originally posted by: Wattt6
I don't understand what the west hopes to achieve by supplying Ukraine with weapons and military intelligence.
For me it will only prolong the war and result in many unnecessary civilian deaths. Ukraine cant and wont beat Russia so this tinkering is doing nothing other than making money for arms companies and killing people.
As usual the US/UK are interfering and making problems worse. They should either go in 100% which would start world war 3 or butt out.

The West hopes to achieve trying to provoke Russia even further and of course to make sure the sanctions stay on Russia hoping that they would bite Russia.

But with the sanctions the opposite of this is happening.

a reply to: gortex

Russia caused the problem...

No they didn't.

Obama sent his political subversives into Ukraine long before their duly elected government, favorable to Russia, was overthrown by a populist revolt instigated by Victoria Nuland and her subversive political cronies.

Salon

Who is Victoria Nuland? Most Americans have never heard of her, because the U.S. corporate media's foreign policy coverage is a wasteland. Most Americans have no idea that President-elect Biden's pick for deputy secretary of state for political affairs is stuck in the quicksand of 1950s U.S.-Russia Cold War politics and dreams of continued NATO expansion, an arms race on steroids and further encirclement of Russia.

Nor do they know that from 2003 to 2005, during the hostile U.S. military occupation of Iraq, Nuland was a foreign policy advisor to Dick Cheney, the Darth Vader of the Bush administration.

You can bet, however, that the people of Ukraine have heard of neocon Nuland. Many have even heard the leaked four-minute audio of her saying "# the EU" during a February 2014 phone call with the U.S. ambassador to Ukraine, Geoffrey Pyatt.

During the infamous call on which Nuland and Pyatt appeared to be plotting to replace or undermine elected Ukrainian President Victor Yanukovych, Nuland expressed her not-so-diplomatic disgust with the European Union for favoring former heavyweight boxer and austerity champ Vitali Klitschko to take over as prime minister, instead of the U.S. first choice, Artseniy Yatsenyuk, who indeed took power after Yanukovych was ousted about three weeks later.

The "# the EU" call went viral, as an embarrassed State Department, never denying the call's authenticity, blamed the Russians for tapping the phone, much as the NSA has tapped the phones of European allies.

Despite outrage from German Chancellor Angela Merkel, no one fired Nuland, but her potty mouth upstaged the more serious story: the U.S. plot to overthrow Ukraine's elected government — and America's responsibility for a civil war that has killed at least 13,000 people and left Ukraine the poorest country in Europe.

In the process, Nuland, her husband Robert Kagan — co-founder of The Project for a New American Century — and their neocon cronies succeeded in sending U.S.-Russian relations into a dangerous downward spiral from which they have yet to recover.

And she is still up to her dirty deeds in this administration.

State.gov.

Ambassador Victoria Nuland was sworn-in as Under Secretary for Political Affairs in April 2021.

The goal, is to weaken Russia. Our leaders don’t care about how many Ukrainian’s die.

a reply to: 00018GE

War only strengthens Russia. Napoleon and Hitler invaded Russia with the goal of weakening Russia and that only caused themselves to be killed. The more Russians fight, the stronger they are.

originally posted by: Wattt6
I don't understand what the west hopes to achieve by supplying Ukraine with weapons and military intelligence.
For me it will only prolong the war and result in many unnecessary civilian deaths. Ukraine cant and wont beat Russia so this tinkering is doing nothing other than making money for arms companies and killing people.
As usual the US/UK are interfering and making problems worse. They should either go in 100% which would start world war 3 or butt out.

Its a war of attrition and Russia can not match NATO in one for one losses with tanks, equipment and people. Could you imagine if the US said hey we are staying out of WWII because it would only delay things and cause more deaths?

Ukraine wins if Russia does take the country, and I don't think Russia will be able to do that with the equipment rolling in.

The bigger picture is maybe Putin ends up leaving one way or another.

originally posted by: Wattt6
I don't understand what the west hopes to achieve by supplying Ukraine with weapons and military intelligence.
For me it will only prolong the war and result in many unnecessary civilian deaths. Ukraine cant and wont beat Russia so this

What is it about a communist takeover of a sovereign nation you don't understand?

This is just about the US having a proxy war with Russia. The US does not care about about the everyday Ukrainian and their life. The war would have been over a long time ago if the US just minded their own but its just something THE US never can do, they have to always get involved in matters that don't concern them.

originally posted by: MisguidedAngel
This is just about the US having a proxy war with Russia. The US does not care about about the everyday Ukrainian and their life. The war would have been over a long time ago if the US just minded their own but its just something THE US never can do, they have to always get involved in matters that don't concern them.

And it never would have happen if Russia didn't invade, stop deflecting the real issue here.

originally posted by: 13ssA
a reply to: gortex

Expansionist Russia? That is quite a strong word considering the fact that the last time it happened was over 70 years ago and since that time Russia only shrunk in size.

Also, are you sure Russia caused the problem? Wasn't the West meddling in Ukrainian politics and quite literally funding it's military? I don't think you are being objective here.

Now of these people are being objective that think its all Russia at fault.

It all started with the US meddling in Ukrainian politics, like you said. Once the US got an in a new government they moved right into Ukraine, started arming and training Ukrainian army and who knows what all else they were doing, most likely getting Ukraine to introduce all the new laws that targeted Ukrainian minorities in Eastern Ukraine.

Had the US not got involved with the coup like they did this war never happens.

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: MisguidedAngel
This is just about the US having a proxy war with Russia. The US does not care about about the everyday Ukrainian and their life. The war would have been over a long time ago if the US just minded their own but its just something THE US never can do, they have to always get involved in matters that don't concern them.

And it never would have happen if Russia didn't invade, stop deflecting the real issue here.

And what would the US do if their was a large population of ethnic Americans living in a foreign country and that foreign government was targeting them, bombing these ethnic American towns and cities in this foreign country, killing the American citizens? You know darn well the US would invade and the people would be 100% behind the invasion so why should it be any different for Russia? Why can't they protect their people?