Is It Really a Choice?

The uncomfortable truth is that our society and culture is sick and broken. I don't think this statement requires verified sourcing or accompanying evidence. Finding something to hold in disdain and contempt is only a click away while something to come together on is few and far between. Emotions run high and as our nature comes through the other side, we demand a fix. Something to repair the problem that inflicted these emotions. With the death of children, these emotions don't run any higher.

In regards to the deaths in Uvalde, there are two fixes that rise to the top. They are both true while also being abhorently wrong.

Gun bans.

In the US, we have the 2nd ammendment. With it, it's own problems and infringements. Arguments that span generations. In case you weren't aware, the 2nd ammendment of the US Constitution provides for citizens to be armed against a tyrannical gov't. In todays language, that sounds like sedition, and by law youd be correct, thus the generations of arguments. From that brief description, its assumed that the population was to be on equal footing with the arms and armaments of the armed services.

I'd like not to bring those arguments here, to this thread, but I can't control anyone on that. I only provide it because anything that runs counter, from the government, to those ends is unconstitutional. Such as laws, confiscation and bans.

There are 400 + million firearms in private citizens hands. If guns were the problems, you'd surely know it.

Mental Health.

The other side of the argument is mental health which strongly plays back to the opening of this post. Our society and culture is sick and broken. It's not the firearms that kill people, it's the thought that killing people is a suitable option to make your statment. Therefore, increasing mental health treatment should be paramount. I find myself getting on board with this up to an extent. By making available access and treatment perhaps that will provide the fix. I'm not well versed on the entire argument on this side of things so if anyone would contribute, please do.

As I said, mental health, up to an extent. Red Flag laws exist. A primer:

In the United States, a red flag law is a gun control law that permits police or family members to petition a state court to order the temporary removal of firearms from a person who may present a danger to others or themselves. A judge makes the determination to issue the order based on statements and actions made by the gun owner in question.[1] Refusal to comply with the order is punishable as a criminal offense.[2][3] After a set time, the guns are returned to the person from whom they were seized unless another court hearing extends the period of confiscation

en.wikipedia.org...

So whats the problem with this? Well, it's a violation of ones 4th ammendment. Due process. A twofer, as it were.

In addition, when you fill out your Form 4473 (NICS paperwork for purchasing a firearm), question

(f) Have you ever been adjudicated as a mental defective OR have you ever been committed to a mental institution?

also (c)

Are you an unlawful user of, or addicted to, marijuana or any depressant, stimulant, narcotic drug, or any other controlled substance?
Warning: The use or possession of marijuana remains unlawful under Federal law regardless of whether it has been legalized or decriminalized
for medicinal or recreational purposes in the state where you reside.

Simply by seeking mental help at some point in your life, you can be restricted from obtaining a firearm. So while I agree that mental health needs to be addressed. More gov't just isn't the answer.

It is my opinion that we, quite possibly purposely, being driven to these two choices. Either way, the people and the constitution....lose.

a reply to: JinMI

A hypothetical solution would be to give everyone that wants a firearm a Mental evaluation .

God only knows the logistical Nightmare that would create and God knows the Governments would take absolute advantage of the situation denying people a firearm if even the slightest mental infraction is found.

This is not an easy fix mate but a start would be to reopen the Mental housing facilities.

a reply to: asabuvsobelow

You'd have a difficult time convincing people to allow such a law. It's an infringement. Also which says nothing to the existing 400 million firearms.

This is not an easy fix mate but a start would be to reopen the Mental housing facilities.

Perhaps. However as I noted above, this may disqualify for one obtaining a firearm in the future no matter the outcome.


I'll also mention that I don't have solid solutions. Merely ideas.

a reply to: JinMI

You mentioned this part twice :

...The uncomfortable truth is that our society and culture is sick and broken...

The question of choice from the OP title, depends on how we look at the problems, and what choices are available.

If we look at it from an alternative perspective : we could suggest that our societies and cultures are not " falling-apart ", but are being purposefully dismantled by Technocratic™ and Tyrannical™ Scammers™.

Their tactics, among others, is to always shift the blame onto the good citizens.

We cause Global-Warming™ ; We have too many guns : We're bad parents ; We didn't listen to authorities enough, and caused the spread of Viruses™.

Used to take all of that on my shoulders, and it was overwhelming, and drove me to depression.

Until you get a peek behind the curtain, and realize that we have let Psychopathic-Scumbags™ in charge of all of our important institutions.

My suggestion : any problem we perceive, should be deeply investigated to find it's upstream origins.

That's when we stop blaming ourselves, and go-after the rats that are crapping in our soup...

a reply to: Nothin

I did separate the title, which is a question, from my assertion very purposely.

Of course I have my own thoughts and conspiracy theories and they don't differ much from yours. However this posting is predicated upon the assertion and proposes the question as to what got us to the present as there is dozens of threads discussing that.

Mental health treatment... we have none, when someone gets committed to a facility all they do is a short talk followed by drugs.

We need actual therapy, accurate diagnosis and viable treatments, not more drugs, or red flag laws.

Admittedly I am a little nervous about red flag laws since I am a 20 yr vet with some disability on top, I would be red flagged din a heart beat in some states.

a reply to: Irishhaf

There's also a strong correlation to prisons in your description there.

Yet another govt institution that fails consistently.

Admittedly I am a little nervous about red flag laws since I am a 20 yr vet with some disability on top, I would be red flagged din a heart beat in some states.

Which strikes at the heart of the issue, red flag laws exist. Trying to apply more emotional bandaids is really tearing our country apart.

a reply to: JinMI

Apologies, but I'm going to use your forum to call out the issue of "mental health".

Evil is not a brain disorder.

Evil is not an illness that can be treated.

Evil is not a syptom of a brain tumor.

Evil is not a mental health crisis.

It's a humanity crisis.

a reply to: JinMI

Felons can't get guns (or vote) either.

In Tennessee they're about to make public camping a felony, at a time when homelessness, due to pandemic and economic events, is a huge phenomenon. States are about to make women who defy the law and seek out abortions and those who aide them, felons.

There is a method to the madness, in my opinion.

a reply to: DBCowboy

Apologies, but I'm going to use your forum to call out the issue of "mental health".

I'm going to do everything within my power to stop you.



Did it work???

Evil is not a brain disorder.

Evil is not an illness that can be treated.

Evil is not a syptom of a brain tumor.

Evil is not a mental health crisis.

It's a humanity crisis.

I don't disagree. I also dont see a way for govt to help. Laws and taxes don't solve for this.

a reply to: JinMI

Yeah : have purposely stayed-away from the threads putting all of the emphasis on mental-health.

Sometime just get tired of plugging holes in the dam, and want folks to turn-around and look at the bastards that are taking pot-shots at the dam.

How many more restrictive control-systems do folks have to suffer, before they start realizing that they are being managed like cattle ?

a reply to: Sookiechacha

Felons can't get guns (or vote) either.

Ever. Even after their "debts" are paid.

a reply to: JinMI

100% correct we need to get out of the for-profit prisons, while some should be kept around for the worst of the worst we should be trying to get into rehabilitation so folks that do turn the corner can actually have a life post prison.

All too often violent crime goes hand in hand with drug use.

Drug use is an epidemic in the US, and is known to cause severe mental health issues.

The 'war on drugs' is a joke. Mexico is provide with everything they need to synthesize Fentanyl and opioids from China, and traffic crossing the border is higher than ever.

Pretending a total ban on guns is a solution is for casual thinkers. Identifying and treating all youth with mental health problems is unrealistic and an unattainable goal. Creating more laws that criminals won't obey is laughable.

What will ensure we have more mass shootings is the constant news coverage which includes all the gory details.

a reply to: JinMI

Form 4473? You mean the form Hunter Biden Signed In 2018 certifying he doesn’t use drugs, While later writing a book Describing how his “superpower“ during the same time in 2018 was finding crack rocks in his carpet?

“Rules for thee but not for me”

a reply to: Medusa18

Yep, that same one. It's even specified:

I also understand that making any false oral or
written statement, or exhibiting any false or misrepresented identification with respect to this transaction, is a crime punishable as a felony under Federal
law, and may also violate State and/or local law.

See, when the Big Guy works as potato in chief, these don't matter.

a reply to: JinMI

Rights are Absolutes. If someone other than You can Decide the matter , then it's a Privilege .

I see what your saying about the possible loopholes, verbatim. Same could be said about a lack nicotine making one agitated an irritated.

Thing is, I've heard even with the various armaments one could get, it still pretty difficult to get legal ownership of a gun compared to a country Canada, an is very low.

And even though there are millions of guns(while still nowhere the amount of the U.S, an are still restricted, it still happens. While countries like Canada should of never, ever, ever have haooened cause of said bans.

And again, placing more restriction or zero tolerance is just going to give the Black Market more duty work. Chicago has a zero gun policy, yet...


As for video games, I wouldn't know how to clean one, and I doubt most COD player would know how to.

I recall the war on Pot too...you guys lost, there still plenty of time for the other #.

Mental health is a tough nut to crack.
On the one hand, if you ever EVER admit to wanting help with your mental health, the system is green lit to # you for the rest of your life when it comes to freedom.

But now with red flag laws, all it takes is for someone ELSE to say you might want help, and you've got a flag for life.

Time and time again we prove that more laws against the people don't help, yet every time one person does something horrible the media and government not only help them so it, but then turn around and blame the hundreds of millions of people who didn't do anything wrong.

a reply to: lordcomac

Thus the reasoning for the posting.

We largely agree with the mental health issues and even already existing stigmas associated.

I'm very curious if those who lead are also counting on the populace to agree with what they propose that can only lead to more red flag laws.