Is it time to send in NATO troops?

originally posted by: Dalamax

originally posted by: turretless

originally posted by: PerfectAnomoly

NATO forces would annihilate the dated, ineffective shambolic Russian Army.

Napoleon and Hitler thought so too.

Come to us with weapons. We have enough space for graves for the whole NATO.

So.... your suggesting a summer campaign?

You can come in winter (for a refreshing novelty) or on June 22 at 4 am (according to tradition).

a reply to: PerfectAnomoly

Ah...but see? He can. Doesn't care about people or lives. Push him into a corner....he's pushing the button.
Nothing stopping him. This will only have 1 outcome w him: and he'll go out w a bang.

A very large one: or many.

Locked away, 1 finger on the button.....and here we find ourselves.

originally posted by: M5xaz

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: seagull
a reply to: Annee

Yeah...

I somehow doubt that we've ever rebuilt after a Global Thermo-nuclear War...??

I did say if there was any world left.

I'll take my chances (and everyone else's) to move Forward.

I doubt Russian oligarchs support Putin nuking the world.

Time for them to stand up.

Russian oligarchs can no more stop a Russian nuke than Oprah , also a billionaire, can stop Biden firing a nuke in a fit of dementia.

If you want to play very dumb nuclear bomb chicken games with Russia with YOUR life, go ahead. I am unwilling to risk nuclear incineration of America because of your irrational hate of Putin.



Most normal people are smart enough not to play that game.

Money has power.

a reply to: PerfectAnomoly

Putin KNOWS that 15 minutes after he launches any nuclear weapons against NATO, he will be dead (If it were to go to a full exchange, Moscow alone is slated for about 80 warheads according to one documentary). The problem is, he may just be willing to take us all with him. If the man is a psychopath, and his past behavior seems to point in that direction, threatening him into a corner may just cause him to launch everything he's got at us. Now, that being said, what I am wondering, is, is he in control of a military willing to do that knowing that they will be killing everyone they know in doing it, when there is inevitable massive retaliation. Family, friends, children. I would like to think not. No one wants this war except the psychopaths.

originally posted by: Grimpachi
a reply to: PerfectAnomoly

So, let me see if I have this right.

Putin: If Nato joins in this war by moving troops and equipment into Ukraine he will use nukes.
(thinking people know that threat means the forces deployed in Ukraine would be targeted with Nukes)

You: I am tired of being threatened with Nukes so we need to do exactly what Putin said would trigger the use of nukes.

Also you: We have more nukes so we win.



Is that a pretty accurate description of the OP?

Basically, yes.

The time for talk is over. Put up or shut up.
And while we are at it, part a couple of aircraft carrier fleets at Taiwan. Put our subs in the China sea as well. Quit playing games.

a reply to: PerfectAnomoly

So you have no capacity to think in terms of "Them" (the leaders of this world)
sending us to die? You have no suspicions at all that every war thru history
may have been only about that?

Why don't they duke it out Gladiator style while we watch for once?

originally posted by: openminded2011
a reply to: PerfectAnomoly

Putin KNOWS that 15 minutes after he launches any nuclear weapons against NATO, he will be dead (If it were to go to a full exchange, Moscow alone is slated for about 80 warheads according to one documentary). The problem is

Man, you should tell Putin.. he probably has no 💡
Surely he will be on a mountain 🏔️ top, waving flag, gps location on, when he launches.. because he pushes every button himself anyway.

Surely the poor guy has heard of bunkers.. man.. trying to recall what country has lots of them.. I think it's some little nation north of China or East of Estonia..

And even if Putin had heard of bunkers ... Surely he wouldn't have one stocked and ready .... Before..

No way...

a reply to: openminded2011

I think he is sliding into cognitive decline as well and turned to china for "help" against the west and now china is pushing him into this conflict (my guess) is that they want russia to bleed the west while pumping china up with oil and coal to help offset their own power issues with the zero covid policy.

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: M5xaz

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: seagull
a reply to: Annee

Yeah...

I somehow doubt that we've ever rebuilt after a Global Thermo-nuclear War...??

I did say if there was any world left.

I'll take my chances (and everyone else's) to move Forward.

I doubt Russian oligarchs support Putin nuking the world.

Time for them to stand up.

Russian oligarchs can no more stop a Russian nuke than Oprah , also a billionaire, can stop Biden firing a nuke in a fit of dementia.

If you want to play very dumb nuclear bomb chicken games with Russia with YOUR life, go ahead. I am unwilling to risk nuclear incineration of America because of your irrational hate of Putin.



Most normal people are smart enough not to play that game.

Money has power.

But not magical, particularly in a country like Russia. No amount of money will move Putin. Nothing the oligarchs can do, despite your simpleton view.

Buut I will give you a clue - keep pushing for direct military involvement of the West and you guarantee WW3, cities nuclear incinerated, hundreds of millions DEAD.

Diplomatic solution much more preferable = Go back to the 2014 Minsk accords.

Unfortunately there are many people who are
innated with the same mindset as the OP.

A mindset that allows "words on a screen"
to induce fear in their hearts. Which leads
to making irrational decisions.

Technically, the OP has allowed the media
machine to influence his decision making
capability.

It's never prudent to start shooting because
your neighbor threatens you with words.

Here's a better idea, go put your boots on,
grab a rifle, and go fight Russia.

No one else's children should die for your
disgruntled attitude with Russian aggression.

originally posted by: vNex92
a reply to: Salander

NATO is the one who always is the trouble marker wand what NATO did as a supposed defensive alliance in Libya further shows it.

They arent meant to be a defensive alliance but a force to assist US.

Why do you try to discuss things you obviously know nothing about? Intervention in Libya started with a United Nations Security Council Resolution 1973, In it the UK,Spain and France set up a no fly zone to stop the bombing of civilians. France took the lead and started taking out its air defenses. Italy refused to help unless NATO forces took over control of the operation. Politics italy didnt want to be under french control and thought NATO should run the operation. There was a vote by NATO members and they took over control. From the beginning of the intervention, the initial coalition of Belgium, Canada, Denmark, France, Italy, Norway, Qatar, Spain, UK and US expanded to nineteen states, with newer states mostly enforcing the no-fly zone and naval blockade or providing military logistical assistance. This was a UN operation not a NATO operation. When they killed Muammar Gaddafi and a new govt formed the UN ended the operation.

The reality is the US doesn't depend on NATO and usually finds it easier to conduct operations without them because it involves getting all of them to agree not an easy task. This tells you how Putin screwed up when every NATO country is willing to help Ukraine.

Putin creates NATO out to be a boogie man he has to have that all dictators have to have something to rail against. For him to maintain power he has to convince the Russians he's protecting them. It makes it ok when people are arrested and freedom of speech is denied.

NATO cannot start a war and no country is obligated to assist in any war started by a NATO member. For example, if Poland decided to attack Russia they would have to go it alone. They only receive assistance if Russia attacks them. This is why Putin screwed up he has now created a hostile country on his border. If they had joined NATO they would not have been allowed to even consider attacking Russia.

originally posted by: LastFirst

originally posted by: openminded2011
a reply to: PerfectAnomoly

Putin KNOWS that 15 minutes after he launches any nuclear weapons against NATO, he will be dead (If it were to go to a full exchange, Moscow alone is slated for about 80 warheads according to one documentary). The problem is

Man, you should tell Putin.. he probably has no 💡
Surely he will be on a mountain 🏔️ top, waving flag, gps location on, when he launches.. because he pushes every button himself anyway.

Surely the poor guy has heard of bunkers.. man.. trying to recall what country has lots of them.. I think it's some little nation north of China or East of Estonia..

And even if Putin had heard of bunkers ... Surely he wouldn't have one stocked and ready .... Before..

No way...

I am sure every bunker he has is targeted. There ARE methods for taking out bunkers, did you know that? Multiple high yield hits on the same location can dig out a bunker and vaporize it.

originally posted by: openminded2011

originally posted by: LastFirst

originally posted by: openminded2011
a reply to: PerfectAnomoly

Putin KNOWS that 15 minutes after he launches any nuclear weapons against NATO, he will be dead (If it were to go to a full exchange, Moscow alone is slated for about 80 warheads according to one documentary). The problem is

Man, you should tell Putin.. he probably has no 💡
Surely he will be on a mountain 🏔️ top, waving flag, gps location on, when he launches.. because he pushes every button himself anyway.

Surely the poor guy has heard of bunkers.. man.. trying to recall what country has lots of them.. I think it's some little nation north of China or East of Estonia..

And even if Putin had heard of bunkers ... Surely he wouldn't have one stocked and ready .... Before..

No way...

I am sure every bunker he has is targeted. There ARE methods for taking out bunkers, did you know that? Multiple high yield hits on the same location can dig out a bunker and vaporize it.

Wow.. every bunker?

This is ridiculous

originally posted by: openminded2011

originally posted by: LastFirst

originally posted by: openminded2011
a reply to: PerfectAnomoly

Putin KNOWS that 15 minutes after he launches any nuclear weapons against NATO, he will be dead (If it were to go to a full exchange, Moscow alone is slated for about 80 warheads according to one documentary). The problem is

Man, you should tell Putin.. he probably has no 💡
Surely he will be on a mountain 🏔️ top, waving flag, gps location on, when he launches.. because he pushes every button himself anyway.

Surely the poor guy has heard of bunkers.. man.. trying to recall what country has lots of them.. I think it's some little nation north of China or East of Estonia..

And even if Putin had heard of bunkers ... Surely he wouldn't have one stocked and ready .... Before..

No way...

I am sure every bunker he has is targeted. There ARE methods for taking out bunkers, did you know that? Multiple high yield hits on the same location can dig out a bunker and vaporize it.

Wow.. every bunker?

This is ridiculous

Interesting comment about Bunkers, you know that both the US and RUSSIA have some almost impregnable bunkers right under mountains and some of those are so deep (under layers of strong basalt and granite and miles down in some cases) and so well protected they will probably withstand multiple direct ground affect nukes, ordinary bunker busters would not do the job and getting over pressure devices into those tunnels would simply never work either as blast doors have been a thing in all large bunkers for decades.

There is a rumour and it is backed up with some evidence that suggests very strongly that it is real that there is a vast underground network of train tunnels that were build during Stalin's paranoid years AND afterwards that pretty much link all major city's in Russia (and quite possibly the Ukraine as well? though obviously they have either been blocked or are now unusably in places so they have not so far been used in an attack there) and sites such as Yamantou, of course the US also has plenty of cold war facility's some of them still classified despite likely being mothballed and much more recently built DUMB's.

Part of Stalin's plan was so that IF the soviets survived a nuclear war they could then rise back up from below the ground so to speak and take over the world with enough room to hide entire army's and there equipment down there pretty much like the fictional facility's shown in the Metro series of computer games, in fact even the former Yugoslavia federation had several nuke proof bunkers (probably not a good and not as PROOF) such as some to hold entire Yugoslavian air force airfields similar to but much better than the Japanese similar WW2 underground airfields they built on the home islands of Japan before they surrendered due to the shock of the nukes dropped on there territory.

Likewise there were probably plans to have surviving military command and control and units with full facility's and gear in the US.


Some of the old Cold War NATO bases were no slouch either but if you want to look at how rapidly they decayed with just twenty years or so not being used any longer then have a look at some urban explorer video's like these.

Deadly fungus, asbestos and other dangerous chemicals and structural damage as well as a lot of them having been robbed out for wiring and other valuable materials, while some have been sealed up there are often still ways that these urban explorers have been able to get into them, there are plenty in Russia as well with urban explorers doing there own Youtube videos on them.




Even in China (I Wonder what is UNDERNEATH those huge ghost city's they have built?)


The cold war's end meant cutbacks on defence budgets, relaxing of the nations in fear of nuclear strikes and some of these bases were simply abandoned despite the huge cost of there build which often ran into the billions.
But some of those old WW2 bunkers were just upgraded while others were also abandoned then forgotten.



Most abandoned bunkers are flooded and I would not recommend anyone go down into some probably still government owned and most likely toxic and claustrophobic environment but I would imagine that given the chance some preppers out there would be salivating at the idea of being able to squat in one of these huge structures if the SHTF.

Though some of the newer sites may have been abandoned since they were outdated and could not withstand the ever more powerful weapons that likely targeted them so there is always the possibility they were simply replaced with more modern and much deeper facility's like those DUMB's in the US.


In the end though they will fail EVERY side.
To quote a passage from the New Testament.
30At that time ‘ they will say to the mountains, “Fall on us!” and to the hills, “Cover us!”’

originally posted by: M5xaz

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: M5xaz

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: seagull
a reply to: Annee

Yeah...

I somehow doubt that we've ever rebuilt after a Global Thermo-nuclear War...??

I did say if there was any world left.

I'll take my chances (and everyone else's) to move Forward.

I doubt Russian oligarchs support Putin nuking the world.

Time for them to stand up.

Russian oligarchs can no more stop a Russian nuke than Oprah , also a billionaire, can stop Biden firing a nuke in a fit of dementia.

If you want to play very dumb nuclear bomb chicken games with Russia with YOUR life, go ahead. I am unwilling to risk nuclear incineration of America because of your irrational hate of Putin.



Most normal people are smart enough not to play that game.

Money has power.

But not magical, particularly in a country like Russia. No amount of money will move Putin. Nothing the oligarchs can do, despite your simpleton view.

Buut I will give you a clue - keep pushing for direct military involvement of the West and you guarantee WW3, cities nuclear incinerated, hundreds of millions DEAD.

Diplomatic solution much more preferable = Go back to the 2014 Minsk accords.

I do not know Putin or what he'd do -- anymore than you do.

I'm not going to dictate what Putin will or will not do. However, he does not seem to be interested in diplomatic solutions.

Putin is the aggressor and needs to be stopped.

originally posted by: LABTECH767
Interesting comment about Bunkers, you know that both the US and RUSSIA have some almost impregnable bunkers..

Part of Stalin's plan was....

still ways that these urban explorers have been able to get into them, there are plenty in Russia as well with urban explorers doing there own Youtube videos on them.”’

Some are beyond any reach.. and decoy bunkers, green screens and movie sets.. is the leader really at where the background shows? Is it a body double?


The Stalin plan is still being adhered to by diehards.

Have you seen the Russian explorer go through the ventilation system to huge bunker... ?

Imagine how many are in Siberia?

Imagine the ruthless soviets building them with prison labor and then executing EVERYBODY even the architects.

Noone knows where these are. The ground radar shows them just disappear into the depths where they then obviously change directions..

originally posted by: vNex92
a reply to: Salander

NATO is the one who always is the trouble marker wand what NATO did as a supposed defensive alliance in Libya further shows it.

They arent meant to be a defensive alliance but a force to assist US.

NATO is not a country.

NATO members did not invade Ukraine to steal territory.

russia did.

Twice.

a reply to: Annee

Rumors are Putin is ill and actually needs cancer surgery. If they put him under someone may be there to make sure he doesn't wake up. Since they are saying he postponed this surgery he may be thinking the same thing. People have been watching his videos and I have to admit something appears to be wrong.