Lavrov "We are at war with NATO"

originally posted by: Peeple
a reply to: vNex92

Please. How does that make any difference? Russia wanted Ukraine as part of her sphere of hegemony. As satellite state failed. Now the invasion.
But the point either way is to increase her size.

And resources

a reply to: JinMI

What do the resources do for you if not increasing size of your market just as much as territory and population, isn't that all part of it?
Economics isn't my strong suit so sorry if my vocabulary is off

a reply to: Peeple

Ask Switzerland

To Russia, Ukraine is like America's Mexico

a reply to: anonentity
Idk.
One minces words, the other is frank and direct.

French

originally posted by: JinMI
a reply to: anonentity

So either Biden has a sit down and sorts this all out with Putin...

Or

....nukes start flying.


Interesting times.

Once the Intel people tell Biden that WWIII is imminent, Biden needs to have Putin zapped to the next life, and immediately begin talking to the leader who is next in line.

Or, to make things even easier, do what Trump would do. Let Putin have Ukraine. Butt out. It's none of our business.

a reply to: carewemust

do what Trump would do. Let Putin have Ukraine. Butt out.

Trump was the one who began sending Ukraine weapons.

Stinger launchers to be exact.

All I see is an attempt at the Mongolian empire.

originally posted by: Katatonik
All I see is an attempt at the Mongolian empire.

How so and at what period in time under what Khan(s)?

Even in its first iteration under Genghis, they’ve got a lot of conquering to do!

originally posted by: Katatonik
All I see is an attempt at the Mongolian empire.

Now this I like.

Putin is a piker, wanting to wind the clock back ONLY to 1985 or so.

Katatonik is taking the DEEP look.

Maybe you or IAMALLYETALLIAM remember, was it Asian peoples who first used stirrups? Nice little innovation.

Cheers

a reply to: IAMALLYETALLIAM

It appears you called me out to an extent. I meant my response more tongue and cheek. However, from what I know of the Mongals under Ghengis they did strive to make a vast empire and it seems so, thats a pretty big chunk of land if it's to be believed.

www.worldhistory.org...

originally posted by: Backagain
a reply to: anonentity

First and foremost , this is not on Biden! Anyone claiming that, is a fool! NATO is made up of over 100 countries! Most of the entire WORLD is against Putin! So many of you are quick to blame Biden! Almost the entire WORLD says Putin is to blame! The Ukraine certainly didn't attack Russia! Russia did attack the Ukraine! Wake the hell up!

Nato is made up of over 100 countries? Lol ypu think more then half of the countries on earth are part of NATO? I think its more like 25 or so going off memory

a reply to: F2d5thCavv2

Thank you for the response.

a reply to: MisguidedAngel


It might be prudent to ask why America has so many military bases in supposedly independent foreign countries, when politely asked to remove themselves they never go. Perhaps they are there to protect these countries from themselves. Or is it something else?

originally posted by: Peeple
a reply to: anonentity

Yesterday I was watching my 5 minutes news and this one reporter who's their Russia correspondent, really well connected and lives there quite some time now, said with name and everything (I don't remember) he spoke to a former Duma member who told him they're preparing a nuclear strike.

So yes that's going to happen imho

The question to me is basically just where, when, what's the scale and what'll be the reaction?

First off, if Russia was Actually preparing for a nuclear strike against anyone, there would be very clear, obvious signs (redeployment of missile and other nuclear related assets, troop movements, stockpiling, evacuation of urban areas, etc.) that western intelligence agencies would be immediately aware of, and trained to interpret.

We've been fretting this for 70 years, after all.

So I wouldn't put too much confidence in the views of a former Duma member.


As to your second, third, and fourth questions:

Where? Ukraine. Russia, that is to say, Putin (unless he is not the real one in control, and is just the puppet) not not foolish enough to believe that nuclear strike against either any EU country, or the US itself would not result in, at least, a reciprocal strike against Russia.

Launching a non-damaging air burst, as an intentional threat, would only serve to further sour world opinion against Russia and Putin, while gaining no advantages, geopolitically.

Detonating a tactical nuke somewhere in Ukraine would therefore be Putin's only "viable" (sic) option; should he go round that bend.

However, even that option is not without severe risk to Russia, and more specifically, to Putin himself.

"Playing the nuke card" in Ukraine would be the ultimate nail in Russia's Ukrainian campaign; the undeniable signal to his own people that the effort has failed, and all that Russia, that is to say, Putin, has left to fight against the "puny Ukrainians" is Russia's nuclear arsenal.

That won't look too good to the Russian people. More significantly, it won't sit at all well with Russia's military command. Which will not be healthy for old Putin.

Furthermore, such an act would open the already beleaguered Russian forces to nuclear retaliation by "Ukrainian" forces (yes, I know, Ukraine gave up its nuclear weapons, supposedly. But if Putin opens the door, who's to say that "refurbished" Soviet nuke might not "mysteriously" be uncovered and deployed?). In the heat of the battle, the shock of a Russian nuke being used against an ostensibly non-nuclear nation, the niceties of effective attribution might well be disregarded.

Putin would (and should) have to carefully considered just how much retribution Russia can, and would endure, before turning on him.

Then there is the Chinese response to consider.

Seeing Russia forced to resort to such drastic measures, and especially in the face of the consequences likely to ensue from those measures, ever cautious China is more than likely to delay its own expansionist ambitions, not willing to incur the wraith of its own COVID-strained and angst-ridden population.

Instead, expect China to suddenly realize that there is money (and influence/power) to be made in the role of "peace-maker".

Zelenskyy will be understandably dismayed to have portions of his beloved Ukraine irradiated, but if the majority of the devastation is limited to the eastern area bordering Russia (and already effectively "Russian", at least according to Putin), and so doing insures the security of his nation for the foreseeable future, he might willing to make such a difficult decision.

originally posted by: Katatonik
a reply to: IAMALLYETALLIAM

It appears you called me out to an extent. I meant my response more tongue and cheek. However, from what I know of the Mongals under Ghengis they did strive to make a vast empire and it seems so, thats a pretty big chunk of land if it's to be believed.

www.worldhistory.org...

Sorry didn’t mean to call you out or be a jerk, Mongol history is just something I’m very passionate about!

originally posted by: JinMI
a reply to: anonentity

So either Biden has a sit down and sorts this all out with Putin...

Or

....nukes start flying.


Interesting times.

JinMI. G'day mate. Good perspective. I can't see Biden stringing an English sentence together let alone in Russian.

When he calls the Poot a "Pony faced liar!" Yeah Putin will say, "watch this" and sure as, the nukes will fly.

Bally

a reply to: Mantiss2021

Certain things have been happening which is not widely known, like Russia having closed their arctic waters to shipping. This would suggest that the main strategy will rest with the Submarine Fleet. Which will most likely have been deployed by now. This tends to suggest if things got hot it won't really matter about having an enemy on a border. Nuclear tsunami mines have probably already been laid. With a sonar code application. The first strike would have to be hard and merciless, simply because no one gets a second chance. The debris clouds would interfere with any defensive ambitions.
Russia would certainly have something up its sleeve, no doubt America has as well. China has been playing catchup pretty well but they will have internal problems to sort out. Primarily moral contributing to substandard hardware due to their labor practices. That's just an opinion but other wild cards exist which are not in the arena yet. Most countries not involved will be pissed if most of the Earth gets nuked for the sake of a privileged class who cant work out their differences.

a reply to: vonclod

Russia wanted Ukraine as part of her sphere of hegemony? that is what the US wants all of Eastern Europe to be part of and block Russia/China.

a reply to: Peeple

Russia wanted Ukraine as part of her sphere of hegemony
That's what the US wants Ukraine to be.

The US wants Ukraine to be part of the EU/US,UK US sphere of hegemony while using Ukraine agaisnt Russia.

As satellite state failed

Your right there wont be much that the Ukrainian military will able to do they dont have an air force, the Russian forces control much of the skies.

Whenever i hear EU talk of heavier weapons they are sending them older Soviet military equipment.

How does that make any difference

Remember the American Century project?