A Modest Proposal--Exit NATO

originally posted by: TzarChasm
a reply to: PatriotGames4u

My point is that, failing some manner of internal transition that eliminates Putin and cancels his operations, NATO should be prepared to open a channel and experiment with negotiation tactics. The alternative is thousands more bodies and even worse consequences for those who aren't dead. However this isn't what the OP was communicating about war profiteering and NATO pushing buttons to optimize their economic gain at the expense of communities around the world.

I'm not motivated to change your mind and doubt it's feasible even if my life depended on it.

Many NATO members talk to putin on a regular basis, what exactly do you think NATO should 'negotiate' with him?

How much Ukrainian territory russia is allowed to steal?

How many Ukrainians russia is allowed to kill?

How many Ukrainian cities russia is allowed to destroy?

How many countries russia is allowed to invade?



putin isn't interested in 'negotiating'.

a reply to: TzarChasm

I'm sure overtures have been made to Putin....obviously with very little success.

Putin ordered the invasion.....the blood is on his hands.
Putin could end this immediately - announce a ceasefire and agree to talks with no pre-conditions. It really is that simple.

As usual, critical of NATO and their stance yet nothing but excuses for Putin.

If Putin hadn't invaded he wouldn't be in this mess....no-one's forced his back to the wall.
We are all responsible for own actions.

Yes, we can try and look for a way to let Putin get out of this whilst saving some sort of face....because his own over-inflated ego and pride won't let him do the right and moral thing himself.

Nato membership makes more sense, especially with europe boosting their spending now than say the UN.

Also as far as Russia take another look, 2 oligarchs killed (and their immediate families) bodies found within 36 hours of each other, and now 2 major fires, 1 at a chemical factory the other at the research facility that came up with S400 and some missle.

Something is going on inside russia right now.

a reply to: F2d5thCavv2

NATO is useless. Russia wants peace and prosperity, as most countries do. They have no desire to invade Europe. They would rather have good business relations that benefit all participants.

NATO is a bureaucracy that has outlived its usefulness. Like any bureaucracy, it lives for its own existence.

The US should resign from the organization, but sanity no longer rules here.

a reply to: Salander

You talk of sanity but then claim Russia wants "peace and prosperity"?

If Putin wanted peace he would not have invaded Ukraine and started a war.

Prosperity?

Ahem, economic sanctions.

NATO is a defensive organisation.

Russia's threat of nuclear war makes it more relevant than ever.

In case you hadn't noticed.

Sanity?

Seems lacking in your post.

a reply to: Irishhaf

Yes, it is.

a reply to: Oldcarpy2

Putin has wanted peace and prosperity for many years. That's why he has been warning NATO for 10+ years that he would not tolerate their presence in Ukraine.

That is, he has been warning for 10+ years. We ignored him, or more likely egged him on to defend the Donbass and get rid of our Ukrainian Nazis.

originally posted by: Salander
a reply to: Oldcarpy2

Putin has wanted peace and prosperity for many years. That's why he has been warning NATO for 10+ years that he would not tolerate their presence in Ukraine.

That is, he has been warning for 10+ years. We ignored him, or more likely egged him on to defend the Donbass and get rid of our Ukrainian Nazis.

Apart from all the times he has invaded neighbouring countries?

originally posted by: Salander
a reply to: Oldcarpy2

Putin has wanted peace and prosperity for many years. That's why he has been warning NATO for 10+ years that he would not tolerate their presence in Ukraine.

That is, he has been warning for 10+ years. We ignored him, or more likely egged him on to defend the Donbass and get rid of our Ukrainian Nazis.

Hmmm...

russia has been occupying parts of Ukraine for 8 years after it'sfirat invasion of the country, and you still think putin wants 'peace'?

He wants the resource rich land in Ukraine, peace or not.

NATO is nor a country, Ukraine is not a NATO member, and NATO is not present in Ukraine.

Got any other fake russian propaganda to spread?

a reply to: ScepticScot

When it comes to military aggression, I think you have Putin confused with a number of POTUS individuals....

Putin is defending the Donbass and attempting to rid the world of Ukrainian Nazis. That gives him the moral high ground.

originally posted by: Salander
a reply to: ScepticScot

When it comes to military aggression, I think you have Putin confused with a number of POTUS individuals....

Putin is defending the Donbass and attempting to rid the world of Ukrainian Nazis. That gives him the moral high ground.

You seem to have mixed up the words defending and invading.

originally posted by: Salander
a reply to: ScepticScot

When it comes to military aggression, I think you have Putin confused with a number of POTUS individuals....

Putin is defending the Donbass and attempting to rid the world of Ukrainian Nazis. That gives him the moral high ground.

putin just invaded the Ukrainian dombas region again, invading another country in an effort to steal land is not 'defending' anyone.

a reply to: ScepticScot

No, I haven't. Putin is defending Donbass, and in the process invading relevant contiguous territories. War is hell you know.

On the other hand, the US has been destroying country after country, invading them too sometimes. That's called military aggression in the lawbooks. If you're interested in law...

originally posted by: Salander
a reply to: ScepticScot

No, I haven't. Putin is defending Donbass, and in the process invading relevant contiguous territories. War is hell you know.

On the other hand, the US has been destroying country after country, invading them too sometimes. That's called military aggression in the lawbooks. If you're interested in law...

Dombas is Ukrainian territory, russia is attacking Ukraine.

Nice try though.

a reply to: PatriotGames4u

If you knew the least bit of history in that part of the world, if you had watched Ukraine On Fire by Oliver Stone to learn some of that history, you would know that all those geographical areas had been in and out of Russia and the Soviet Union for centuries, at least since 1700 or so. Stalin, Kruschev and others played musical chairs with 'ownership' of those regions.

originally posted by: Salander
a reply to: PatriotGames4u

If you knew the least bit of history in that part of the world, if you had watched Ukraine On Fire by Oliver Stone to learn some of that history, you would know that all those geographical areas had been in and out of Russia and the Soviet Union for centuries, at least since 1700 or so. Stalin, Kruschev and others played musical chairs with 'ownership' of those regions.

It matters not who once possessed that land, it belongs to Ukraine now, though russia has been trying to steal for 8 years it since discovering the wealth in natural resources it contains.

Making your 'defending' claim absurdly absurd in the most absurd kind of way.

a reply to: PatriotGames4u

...sez you and NATO...