A Modest Proposal--Exit NATO

a reply to: vNex92


NATO countries provided the force element for the UN in libya.

NATO is not a country.

NATO did not 'blockade' anyone.




Do you have unicorns in where you live?

We don't have any here in reality, can you send a photo for my grandkids?

a reply to: Freeborn

Except for the part where Putin and his patriots have been treated consistently as some looming adversarial "other" that gets shafted whenever NATO had a chance to mend old wounds and foster a healthy mutual respect between nations. Grudges carry weight and that weight is now being projected on the fake friends who only played along for their selfish gain.

originally posted by: TzarChasm
a reply to: Freeborn

Except for the part where Putin and his patriots have been treated consistently as some looming adversarial "other" that gets shafted whenever NATO had a chance to mend old wounds and foster a healthy mutual respect between nations. Grudges carry weight and that weight is now being projected on the fake friends who only played along for their selfish gain.

Perhaps russia should stop invading non threatening neighbors to steal land if putin cares about what the planet thinks of russia?

Not threatening to nuke the planet if he doesn't get his way would probably help too.

a reply to: PatriotGames4u

That's kind of the point really, he's tired of being the globalist scapegoat and wants men and women of leadership status to honor their words and play by the rules. Now he's retaliating and yes, that's the second of two evils and no it doesn't magically acquit him of his sins but he's not backing down and neither is anyone else. So keep pushing, keep escalating and keep daring him to use the last tactical advantage he has because it's easier than conceding our faults and apologizing.

originally posted by: TzarChasm
a reply to: PatriotGames4u

That's kind of the point really, he's tired of being the globalist scapegoat and wants men and women of leadership status to honor their words and play by the rules. Now he's retaliating and yes, that's the second of two evils and no it doesn't magically acquit him of his sins but he's not backing down and neither is anyone else. So keep pushing, keep escalating and keep daring him to use the last tactical advantage he has because it's easier than conceding our faults and apologizing.

Then putin should start by 'playing by the rules'.

Number 1 and 2 on that list are not threatening to nuke the planet over feelz and not invading non threatening neighbors to steal land.

a reply to: TzarChasm

Or, Putin has been badly advised and his decision to invade a non threatening sovereign nation has gone badly wrong but his ego won't let him see reality and he is thus incapable of backing down and losing face.

Because of him, and no one else, the horrors of war have been unleashed.

The blame is his, and his alone.

a reply to: TzarChasm

Except for the part where Putin and his patriots....

Patriots?

... have been treated consistently as some looming adversarial "other" that gets shafted whenever NATO had a chance to mend old wounds and foster a healthy mutual respect between nations.

So how exactly has Russia been 'shafted' by NATO?

I'll concede that NATO aligned nations could have been more conciliatory towards Russia at times....but Russia has been aggressive in its dealings with its former territories and Putin is very open about his 'Russia First' agenda.
And its Russia that has invaded those nations and engaged in several land grabs....resulting in how many deaths, how much destruction and the displacement of literally millions of people.

Grudges carry weight and that weight is now being projected on the fake friends who only played along for their selfish gain.

Have you ever considered the 'grudges' those former Soviet nations and Warsaw Pact countries have against Russia and the genuine fear they have about being forced into submission again?

Which 'fake friends' are you speaking of?

originally posted by: PatriotGames4u

originally posted by: TzarChasm
a reply to: PatriotGames4u

That's kind of the point really, he's tired of being the globalist scapegoat and wants men and women of leadership status to honor their words and play by the rules. Now he's retaliating and yes, that's the second of two evils and no it doesn't magically acquit him of his sins but he's not backing down and neither is anyone else. So keep pushing, keep escalating and keep daring him to use the last tactical advantage he has because it's easier than conceding our faults and apologizing.

Then putin should start by 'playing by the rules'.

Number 1 and 2 on that list are not threatening to nuke the planet over feelz and not invading non threatening neighbors to steal land.

If he "played by the rules" he would be labeled a white supremacist bigot terrorist Nazi like every other patriot who attempted to assert their values in defiance of the democrat agenda. So no matter what strategy he employs, he's a commie scumbag who wants to murder us all because that's what the talking heads on TV tell us to think. His military could have been sweeping right to left carpet bombing the hell out of every community and station east of the UK if he wanted to, but he's not stupid and he's not ruthless. The leadership who made this conflict necessary are continuing to push his buttons, and they won't stop because "he can't remain in power". He's dangerous for the same reasons Trump was dangerous to the administration, and by administration I mean NATO.

a reply to: TzarChasm

I don't know about in America but that the vast majority of people in the UK and Europe couldn't give a toss who is in control and power in Russia....that's for Russians to decide and deal with.

But they do want him to stop his naked aggression towards the former Soviet nations and bordering countries and to stop the senseless killing.
The killing he started and the killing he could put a stop to in an instant.

Putin has openly stated on numerous occasions that he doesn't recognise their right to exist....how do you expect them to react to that? Especially considering their previous experiences under Russian domination and subjugation.

originally posted by: TzarChasm

originally posted by: PatriotGames4u

originally posted by: TzarChasm
a reply to: PatriotGames4u

That's kind of the point really, he's tired of being the globalist scapegoat and wants men and women of leadership status to honor their words and play by the rules. Now he's retaliating and yes, that's the second of two evils and no it doesn't magically acquit him of his sins but he's not backing down and neither is anyone else. So keep pushing, keep escalating and keep daring him to use the last tactical advantage he has because it's easier than conceding our faults and apologizing.

Then putin should start by 'playing by the rules'.

Number 1 and 2 on that list are not threatening to nuke the planet over feelz and not invading non threatening neighbors to steal land.

If he "played by the rules" he would be labeled a white supremacist bigot terrorist Nazi

If he 'played by the rules' he wouldn't be behaving like a nazi, and folks would stop calling him a nazi.

originally posted by: PatriotGames4u

originally posted by: TzarChasm

originally posted by: PatriotGames4u

originally posted by: TzarChasm
a reply to: PatriotGames4u

That's kind of the point really, he's tired of being the globalist scapegoat and wants men and women of leadership status to honor their words and play by the rules. Now he's retaliating and yes, that's the second of two evils and no it doesn't magically acquit him of his sins but he's not backing down and neither is anyone else. So keep pushing, keep escalating and keep daring him to use the last tactical advantage he has because it's easier than conceding our faults and apologizing.

Then putin should start by 'playing by the rules'.

Number 1 and 2 on that list are not threatening to nuke the planet over feelz and not invading non threatening neighbors to steal land.

If he "played by the rules" he would be labeled a white supremacist bigot terrorist Nazi

If he 'played by the rules' he wouldn't be behaving like a nazi, and folks would stop calling him a nazi.

For the past 40+ years, Russia never stopped being the "red scare" and that's the reputation Putin inherited and tolerated since the new millennium began. I'm not condoning his actions, but I'm also far from convinced that in the event he's eliminated from the global arena of competing agencies, it will be the end of tyranny and brute military tactics. Once upon a time they were allies and now "someone" wants to euthanize the bear because it's convenient for whatever is around the corner.

Or are we now convinced there is in fact no agenda at all?

originally posted by: TzarChasm

originally posted by: PatriotGames4u

originally posted by: TzarChasm

originally posted by: PatriotGames4u

originally posted by: TzarChasm
a reply to: PatriotGames4u

That's kind of the point really, he's tired of being the globalist scapegoat and wants men and women of leadership status to honor their words and play by the rules. Now he's retaliating and yes, that's the second of two evils and no it doesn't magically acquit him of his sins but he's not backing down and neither is anyone else. So keep pushing, keep escalating and keep daring him to use the last tactical advantage he has because it's easier than conceding our faults and apologizing.

Then putin should start by 'playing by the rules'.

Number 1 and 2 on that list are not threatening to nuke the planet over feelz and not invading non threatening neighbors to steal land.

If he "played by the rules" he would be labeled a white supremacist bigot terrorist Nazi

If he 'played by the rules' he wouldn't be behaving like a nazi, and folks would stop calling him a nazi.

For the past 40+ years, Russia never stopped being the "red scare"

Because russia was trying very hard to be the 'red scare'.

Nowadays (before putin's latest invasion of Ukraine) russia mostly complained that they weren't being 'resspected' as a military threat anymore, making your opinion on the matter pretty absurd.

Even today, russian troll was here repeating putin's latest nuke propaganda trying to scare everyone with russia's latest terror weapon in an effort to recreate that 'red scare'.

Your beef is entirely with russia on this issue, we aren't even playing the game anymore.

a reply to: Salander
I think we should leave the UN too , Nato is useless

a reply to: PatriotGames4u

You're accusing russiantroll of propaganda even though their reporting of the specific missile weapon (the topic you mentioned but failed to link for whatever reason) factually accurate and made no mention of mobilizing against NATO or Western military, no threats or derogatory language. Respectable journalism even if the subject is controversial.

originally posted by: Freeborn
a reply to: TzarChasm

I don't know about in America but that the vast majority of people in the UK and Europe couldn't give a toss who is in control and power in Russia....that's for Russians to decide and deal with.

But they do want him to stop his naked aggression towards the former Soviet nations and bordering countries and to stop the senseless killing.
The killing he started and the killing he could put a stop to in an instant.

Putin has openly stated on numerous occasions that he doesn't recognise their right to exist....how do you expect them to react to that? Especially considering their previous experiences under Russian domination and subjugation.

Then leverage your leaders to appeal to NATO and arrange a parley before the bodies pile up and there's no alternative but to escalate. Forcing a man's back to the wall is how you provoke truly regrettable consequences.

originally posted by: TzarChasm

originally posted by: Freeborn
a reply to: TzarChasm

I don't know about in America but that the vast majority of people in the UK and Europe couldn't give a toss who is in control and power in Russia....that's for Russians to decide and deal with.

But they do want him to stop his naked aggression towards the former Soviet nations and bordering countries and to stop the senseless killing.
The killing he started and the killing he could put a stop to in an instant.

Putin has openly stated on numerous occasions that he doesn't recognise their right to exist....how do you expect them to react to that? Especially considering their previous experiences under Russian domination and subjugation.

Then leverage your leaders to appeal to NATO and arrange a parley before the bodies pile up and there's no alternative but to escalate. Forcing a man's back to the wall is how you provoke truly regrettable consequences.

NATO has nothing to do with russia invading Ukraine to steal land, your beef is with putin.

a reply to: PatriotGames4u

Do you work for NATO or something?

originally posted by: TzarChasm
a reply to: PatriotGames4u

Do you work for NATO or something?

No.

originally posted by: TzarChasm
a reply to: PatriotGames4u

You're accusing russiantroll of propaganda even though their reporting of the specific missile weapon (the topic you mentioned but failed to link for whatever reason) factually accurate and made no mention of mobilizing against NATO or Western military, no threats or derogatory language. Respectable journalism even if the subject is controversial.

Nor have you provided anything to support your nonsense that NATO is preparing to, or has any interest in attacking russia.

Meanwhile, putin has made several not so subtle nike threats over the past 2 months, and russian invasion supporters are here every day trying to convince us to be afraid of russia again.

It isn't the West recreating the 'red scare, it's putin and russia.

a reply to: PatriotGames4u

My point is that, failing some manner of internal transition that eliminates Putin and cancels his operations, NATO should be prepared to open a channel and experiment with negotiation tactics. The alternative is thousands more bodies and even worse consequences for those who aren't dead. However this isn't what the OP was communicating about war profiteering and NATO pushing buttons to optimize their economic gain at the expense of communities around the world.

I'm not motivated to change your mind and doubt it's feasible even if my life depended on it.