What does Putin really want? My theory about the war in Ukraine

a reply to: Grenade

Or imagine the outrage if you armed and funded Armed Militia led by a Nazi loving ex-Russian Special Forces Lieutenant-Colonel to co-ordinate a lengthy programme of intimidation and insurrection with other extreme Right-wing and Neo-Nazi militias in a region of a neighbouring country?

Oh that's right, no-one really cares to mention that....or they simply ignore it, gloss over it or enter into denial.

There's some really nasty people on both sides, let's not be selective about this.

originally posted by: Peeple
a reply to: lasvegasteddy

What are you talking about? NATO said no to Ukraine in 2014(?) and the people got a free re-vote in 2004 after the first run was without question heavily influenced and not by the CIA.

ukraine wasn't as primed and ready in 2014
the dust of the coup was still settling

i read alot of CIA training of ukraines army was taking place in 2015 forward

it was just last week i read they're talking about a ukraine fast track into the EU
www.dw.com...

what's to follow...no need to guess
just because nato said no in 2014 does not mean such option in the future is off the table by any means
would the EU have offered a fast track into the EU in 2014
especially after vicky nuland's phone call leak where she said "f*ck the EU...we decide who goes into power there "

would it not be a prize to have nato as close as they can get to moscow

i watched one discussion with puitin where he stated
he's to protect moscow's reaction time
a nato position with ukraine would greatly reduce that

things line up how they line up

originally posted by: face23785

originally posted by: randomuser
The bad intel theory seems more legit when you understand certain other things, such as people being afraid to tell Putin the truth.

I considered that. But I think it's worse to tell him he's gonna have an overwhelming victory in a few days and have it turn into a quagmire like this.

I think that's gonna piss him off exponentially more than you telling him the truth up front.

The fact that dozens, over a 100, around 150 FSB officers have been purged and/or arrested and thrown into prison, including the top one paints a completely different picture than what you are saying.

However, The Times claims that both officials have been dismissed from their posts in recent weeks. Initially, the Russian government claimed that Beseda had embezzled funds, and placed him under house arrest. He has since been transferred to a prison, according to the paper, and has now been formally charged with misinforming the Kremlin about the conditions on the ground in Ukraine. Bolyukh has been dismissed from his post but is reportedly not in prison. His current whereabouts remain unclear.

Dozens purged as Kremlin blames Russian spy services for botched Ukraine invasion

a reply to: Freeborn

No arguments here mate, my issue is with idiots who don't understand the landscape, picking sides and taking the moral high ground because they think MSM is gospel.

"I support Ukraine, so that makes me a good person" is essentially the position of the vast majority of the Western sheeple. They think gobbling up propaganda is a noble deed.

a reply to: homerJ

You're aware that a huge number of Ukrainian citizens identify as ethnic Russians and see the invasion as liberation? That civilians are being killed by both sides, yet the Russian army is being blamed for all civilian casualties?

This is a civil war, driven by not only the Russians but also a corrupt and oppressive Ukrainian government.

a reply to: CriticalStinker

The golden dawn is not an armed militia, nor do their government provide them with arms.

a reply to: Grenade

I get that mate, people with locked in mentalities.

Sure, there's those who parrot the accepted version of events etc without applying even a modicum of critical thinking, there's no denying that.

But there are also those who go against the 'official' line no matter what, regardless of evidence etc simply because they like to proclaim, 'Look at me, I don't believe the bollocks they are feeding me, I'm so super informed not like the sheeple'.

Question everything means EVERYTHING and not just one perspective.

Seems to me that increasing numbers of people both on here and in 'real life' are completely incapable of doing that.

a reply to: Freeborn

Again, i agree. I have equal contempt for Putin and Zelenskyy. I would say however that the majority of people are painting Putin as the Devil and Zelenskyy as the hero, so i've tried to interject some balance.

a reply to: Grenade

I am not taking sides in the political spectrum. But if the people in Ukraine think they are being liberated by being drawn into the Russian Federation where all humans rights are being discarded they are going to be sadly disappointed.

a reply to: face23785

My opinoin -

Putin thought they would roll over Ukraine, take the capital and kill the leadership in a week or two. His Generals probably way overestimated their abilities.

Why?

Because in a Dictatorship, you tell the Dictator what he wants to hear. They probably got to the top talking crap and now for the first time they had to back up their bragging and got trounced.

I am sure there are some leadership changes in the military coming if not already. We have reports of multiple Generals and Colonels being KIA. Who is to say that the Ukrainians did that and not the Russian leadership?

Kim would have strapped them to a missile or AA gun for the failure.

a reply to: randomuser

If they identify as Russian, if their heritage is Russian, if their traditions are Russian and they voted for a pro Russian president then who am i to question their desire?

Something people forget is that pro Russian Viktor Yanukovych was voted into power in 2002, 2005 and 2013 before being ousted after what can only be described as an armed insurrection.

It seems allegations of voter fraud etc are only taken seriously when those in the media don't align ideologically with the winner.

Ukraine has been in a war for it's heart between Russia and the EU since it left the Soviet Union.

a reply to: Grenade

But again, those allegations of voter fraud come from a de facto dictator who allegedly was elected into power due to voter fraud.

Russians in Donbas account for approximately 38% of the total population.
Most of those are resident in the larger cities.
58% of Donbas is Ukrainian.

Most Ukrainians just want to be left alone to get on with their lives the best they can, pretty much the same as the rest of us.

originally posted by: Grenade
a reply to: randomuser

If they identify as Russian, if their heritage is Russian, if their traditions are Russian and they voted for a pro Russian president then who am i to question their desire?

Something people forget is that pro Russian Viktor Yanukovych was voted into power in 2002, 2005 and 2013 before being ousted after what can only be described as an armed insurrection.

It seems allegations of voter fraud etc are only taken seriously when those in the media don't align ideologically with the winner.

Ukraine has been in a war for it's heart between Russia and the EU since it left the Soviet Union.

Living under a dictatorship, where freedom to assemble, freedom of speech, freedom of religion and other basic human rights are stripped is a grisly fate. They are being sucked into a dystopia which is going to bring them misery and pain and death.

We have a poster on this website that goes by the handle RussianTroll. Ask him how long he thinks he would last if he started to post against the Putin and Russian narrative. Ask him if he is afraid he will be imprisoned if he spoke up against the atrocities being done by his government.

How would you enjoy being under a regime where you had no basic human rights?

a reply to: face23785

It’s a resource war, obviously. And you say you study international politics?

Ukraine is divided between Eastern Russian people and western Polish (NATO) supporting citizens who have been in conflict for decades
Western supporting Ukrainian troops have been fighting Russian supporting troops and Russian supporting citizens for years and it has been escalating
Russia is going after the territory with the assets and that territory has Russian supporting people living there. Western Ukrainian troops are fighting in that area, killing Eastern supporting citizens who support Russia

The West is making money from Ukraine and set up a puppet government, Biden, Pelosi, Kerri, Romney all have family assets. Their wealth and income is threatened
Russia don’t want to lose the goose, can’t afford to lose Ukraine so have no choice than invade

Putin wants control of Ukraine’s grain and energy resources, somewhere to run pipelines of gas into Europe. Putin can’t pull out, his countries wealth depends on Ukraine. Bit like California or Texas leaving the US
You blame Putin but the big issue I think is the money the US Democrat party has invested and corruption they are behind www.abovetopsecret.com...

And stop listening to the media, you believe any of that and your whole premise is built on a false foundation. The convoy was never going to Kiev, Kiev isn’t important and Putin still has a lot of Ukrainian support

What Putin wants is what the US Democrat party want, control of Ukrainian grains, gas and oils

a reply to: randomuser

Like the US and other Western societies at the moment, the only virus is our governments

a reply to: Freeborn

Again i agree, both sides are at fault. World leaders, every single one of them are compromised, i suspect that's a pre-requisite of becoming a world leader.

originally posted by: The2Billies
I happen to know quite a number people high up in the US military/government. Not Biden or his crew, puke.

Anyway they all say there is only one way out for Russia. Putin needs to be "ousted" by his own people and only by Putin being 6 feet under will this all end. It must be openly done by Russians and no one else.

That will end the conflict.

I am against violent regime change.

How'd things work out after Sadam was ousted?

How about Libya and Qadafi?

The west was trying to run the regime change operation on Syria and Russians backed Asad,

Often times, expelling a regime that we/west don't find palatable ends up creating chaos and a power vacuum.

From what I've heard, in internal Russian politics, Putin is considered a moderate, in terms of war and foreign policy.

When the spooks/C.I.A and diplomatic elements of our country start scheming for regime change, it's generally NOT to help the people living in that country, but rather a geopolitical move meant remove people that don't play along with the pro-west narrative.

Sometimes it's better to deal with the devil you know...

originally posted by: Raggedyman

It’s a resource war, obviously. And you say you study international politics?

Yeah, because everyone in international politics agrees about everything...

Said nobody in that discipline, ever.

Also, I straight up said one of the reasons he wants the region I said he wants was because of resources. Reading the OP: a lost art.

And stop listening to the media, you believe any of that and your whole premise is built on a false foundation.

If my OP honestly sounds like I believe the media to you, you need to re-read it, maybe a little slower this time.

Or maybe finish reading it for the first time. It seriously looks like you made it about 2 sentences it, hit the limit of your attention span, then made an uninformed reply.

originally posted by: SleeperHasAwakened

originally posted by: The2Billies
I happen to know quite a number people high up in the US military/government. Not Biden or his crew, puke.

Anyway they all say there is only one way out for Russia. Putin needs to be "ousted" by his own people and only by Putin being 6 feet under will this all end. It must be openly done by Russians and no one else.

That will end the conflict.

When the spooks/C.I.A and diplomatic elements of our country start scheming for regime change, it's generally NOT to help the people living in that country, but rather a geopolitical move meant remove people that don't play along with the pro-west narrative.

Sometimes it's better to deal with the devil you know...

They aren't scheming anything, they are making an observation. They simply say there is only one possible ending that won't result in WWIII or nukes. That is for Russians to take care of Putin themselves.

Also, to everyone responding with variations on "you can't tell the truth to a dictator," yes we've all heard the cliche. That's a very surface-level take.

As I already mentioned, what's worse than telling a dictator the truth is telling him a lie that gets him embarrassed on the world stage.