The economic blitzkrieg against Russia has failed

a reply to: Freeborn

Yeah if you look at 2022 in a bubble.

Taking 2014's US lead coup into account shows that is not true. Coupled with Ukraine's refusal to implement the 2015 Minsk accords which were the ENTIRE basis for the ceasefire and you will see its a very legitimate cause to invade them.

The US fomented a coup and now its arming them, too. I am merely saying Russia should do the same, to the US, in kind.

Fortunately, we are more than capable of liberating ourselves. Which would be easier during an active World War. Which only a fool would not leverage and exploit for their own ends. Which I would hope we would.

Hypothetically. You werent planning for WW3 were ya

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: JBurns
a reply to: [post=26473047]Freeborn[/post

I AM TRYING TO POINT OUT THR ABSURDITY OF THOSE ARGUING FOR ARMING UKRAINE.

You cant support the rights of one group to OVERTHROW THEIR GOVERNMENT WITH FOREIGN SUPPORT but not another.

If its good for Ukraine its good for us, too. I said it once and I will keep saying it: DOUBLE STANDARDS ARE DONE

THEY ARE OVER. No more double standards.

Ukraine is fighting against a foreign invader. Not the Ukranian people fighting against their own government .

You just join the party?

Ukraine has been killing Ukranians for 8 years.

a reply to: ScepticScot

They already did that. 2014 and on.

Since then Ukraine has launched attacks against the breakaway regions that 1) arent interested in that scam phoney baloney democracy, 2) werent interested in creating new ties to the West and 3) wanted to maintain their historical relationship with Russia.

originally posted by: JinMI

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: JBurns
a reply to: [post=26473047]Freeborn[/post

I AM TRYING TO POINT OUT THR ABSURDITY OF THOSE ARGUING FOR ARMING UKRAINE.

You cant support the rights of one group to OVERTHROW THEIR GOVERNMENT WITH FOREIGN SUPPORT but not another.

If its good for Ukraine its good for us, too. I said it once and I will keep saying it: DOUBLE STANDARDS ARE DONE

THEY ARE OVER. No more double standards.

Ukraine is fighting against a foreign invader. Not the Ukranian people fighting against their own government .

You just join the party?

Ukraine has been killing Ukranians for 8 years.

Ukraine has been fighting a separatist movement supported by Russia. Its also been invaded by Russia for 8 years.

a reply to: ScepticScot

Supported by Ukranians.

The Ukranian govt killing its own citizens.

Nice try.

originally posted by: JBurns
Meh. The country would do just fine without the federal government.

Not one of the Founders felt the same way as you, mostly since they weren't anti-Constitution/America.

When is the last time Democracy ever did anything for me?

Me! Me! Me!

It's E Pluribus Unum not Me Unum.

a reply to: JBurns

The civil war started when forces led by two former GRU, enacting a plan formulated by one of Putin's advisors, seized government buildings in Donetsk and Luhansk.

Ukraine responded by sending an anti-terrorism task force.

Things then continued to esclate as Russia sent more weapons and troops across the border until it was a full blown civil war.

But the fact remains, the separatists fired the first shots.

a reply to: Xcalibur254

In 2016/17

The US began sending weapons. Other western nations followed suit also sending intel and training personel.

Meanwhile privately, US plotiticians had vested interests in the country as well.

originally posted by: JinMI
a reply to: ScepticScot

Supported by Ukranians.

The Ukranian govt killing its own citizens.

Nice try.

The claim was Ukrainian people were bring armed by foreign powrs fight their own government. The example you are giving the foreign power is Russia.

Think you may have spectacularly missed the point bring made.

a reply to: JBurns

Whether you like it or not by all recognised standards and norms Ukraine is an independent country.
The Russian Federation recognised an independent Ukraine.
It signed an Agreement recognising its independence and its borders....and has done nothing but meddle and interfere in its internal affairs since.
Russian meddling in Ukraine over the years far exceeds anything the USA or anyone else has ever done.

Russia may have grievances....but there is still no LEGITIMATE reason to invade and start bombing and killing people.

And you aren't just saying 'Russia should do the same'....you have openly advocated Russia using nuclear bombs on America and the wholescale slaughter of Democrats.
You have abandoned all the principles you allege to hold dear in your support of a brutal tyrant who is the polar opposite of those principles.

In your hypothetical situation you and all those flag waiving fair weather Defenders of Freedom would be amongst the first one's Putin would send to the Gulags.

a reply to: ScepticScot




No, not at all. Im pointing out the myopic views expoused and the ignorance that followed.

Think you may have spectacularly missed the point bring made.

Indeed.

originally posted by: JBurns
a reply to: ScepticScot

They already did that. 2014 and on.

Since then Ukraine has launched attacks against the breakaway regions that 1) arent interested in that scam phoney baloney democracy, 2) werent interested in creating new ties to the West and 3) wanted to maintain their historical relationship with Russia.

We have already established your dislike of democracy and preference for armed dictatorships.

originally posted by: JinMI
a reply to: ScepticScot




No, not at all. Im pointing out the myopic views expoused and the ignorance that followed.

Think you may have spectacularly missed the point bring made.

Indeed.

No I think you missed the point and demonstrated your own ignorance.

a reply to: JinMI

The US did not begin sending lethal aid until 2019.

And even if was 2016/17, that still would've been 2-3 years that Russia was supplying the separatists with weapons and troops before the West sent lethal aid.

So I fail to see how your post counters anything I said.

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: JinMI
a reply to: ScepticScot




No, not at all. Im pointing out the myopic views expoused and the ignorance that followed.

Think you may have spectacularly missed the point bring made.

Indeed.

No I think you missed the point and demonstrated your own ignorance.

False.

a reply to: Xcalibur254

It was penned in 2017.

I wasnt countering anything you said. Simply providing extra context.

It was also 2-3 years into Ukranians killing Ukranians.

originally posted by: JinMI

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: JinMI
a reply to: ScepticScot




No, not at all. Im pointing out the myopic views expoused and the ignorance that followed.

Think you may have spectacularly missed the point bring made.

Indeed.

No I think you missed the point and demonstrated your own ignorance.

False.

So you think people are arguing to arm Ukraine to fight their own government?

a reply to: Freeborn

What do we need Putin for? The US government has put plenty of our people in gulags.

Say what you want, my preference is the total destruction of the us government. Its what I offer my thoughts & prayers toward.

Again, it isn't about Ukraine. They are just the unfortunate proxy dumb enough to believe the US government's lies.

a reply to: ScepticScot

They don't need to! They already supplied equipment (not lethal weapons) and engaged in covert activities that resulted in the overthrow of their government.

Just because they were able to do it without following their usual M.O. of flooding the country with guns to be used by revolutionaries that will later be used against US troops decades later doesn't make it OK

I hear nothing but double standards and US lies in your post. From the Pentagon papers on...the US is a force for evil and it has only gotten worse since Godless Dems illegally occupied the place

I am merely stating an obvious fact. That smart people would take advantage of WW3 to achieve their own objectives.

a reply to: ScepticScot

I despise democracy and dictatorships. Both provide a means/mechanism by which Person/Group A is able to force their beliefs/views on Person/Group B.

It is intolerable.

Democracy works on a super small scale. When homogenous populations with the same goal use it. Otherwise? Total failure.